Axiom Home Page Forums General Discussion Advice from Axiom Owners anyone up on the latest computer hardware?

I haven't kept up to date with what the latest is in hardware. It's time for a new desktop though. I'll be gaming with the machine, among other less intensive things. I need at least the following (Dragon Age Origins requirements)

CPU: Intel Core 2 Duo 2.4Ghz Processor or equivalent
RAM: 4GB (Windows Vista/Windows 7)
Video: ATI 3850 512 MB or greater
NVIDIA 8800GTS 512 MB or greater

I'm thinking I want to get a Core i7 processor. The biggest areas I'm not sure of are the motherboard and graphics card. What's a good MB that works with the Core i7?

For video cards, I want something good, but not so high end that I'll break the bank. I'd rather get something a little lesser now and have to get something again in a couple of years than spend a lot on a card now. I've had good luck with ATI cards, so would like to stick with one of them. I'm guessing the 5700/5800 is too pricey (haven't dug into prices too deep yet). It looks like a 4650 is only about $70 and gives me more than what the game needs and I assume will be good for games for the next few years. Haven't followed it enough to know what I'm missing out on with the better cards though.

I'm going to do a little research, but there's always some people that can help here. As far as research goes, not sure what sites are good currently. I remember checking out Tom's hardware (link directly to a mobo article) in the past.

The 5770 is relatively inexpensive, and is faaaar superior to the 4650. You could also go with a 4850 for about $110, and be way better off than with the 4650.

Tom's is not a great source at this point. Have a look at http://www.techreport.com. They have a very good guide out every month. I generally go off of their guides to some degree.

Then again, I'm bashing my head against a windows XP install on their base configuration tonight, so maybe I'm not the best person to ask... stupid XP.

You got me to price check the 5750...cheaper than I thought it would be. We may just have a winner as far as video cards go. DirectX11 support is a nice plus for the future as well.

Figuring out the mobo is next. Then of course, where to buy this from. I've built my own in the past, but might go the easy route and do Dell or a local clone box, [url=www.kehtron.com]Kehtron[/url]

Kehtron will be more customizable I suspect, but we'll see what prices are like between the two. With Dell I just get whatever mobo they happen to put in there. I'm assuming they'll let me upgrade the video card to the 5700 series.

I'm remembering why I normally custom build. Dell, HP, and Kehtron all won't let me customize a full machine exactly what I want without it getting real expensive.

I think I can do a barebones system from Kehtron and get the Core i7 860, 8GB RAM, 1TB HD, 5750 1GB ATI video for about $800. Maybe another $300 for a new monitor + a network card for it.

Forgot about the monitor for a moment...another thing I need to look into. I'll see what I can find...probably 23" with 2ms response time.

What else are you planning to use the machine more? Myself, I'd edge towards a better video card over more that much RAM, or even a slightly slower processor.

I am currently running a Core i7 in my rig, and I HIGHLY recommend this processor! I was able to take the Core i7 920 from 2.67GHz to 3.8GHz on a $25US air CPU cooler! The processing power is absolutely amazing.

Motherboards for the Core i7, I believe, are pretty much the same across the board...they all utilize the X58 chipset (unless things have changed, I've been out of the hardware loop for a few months now since I built my current PC). My last two motherboards were manufactured by EVGA. While this company is fairly new to the MB building business, their products are great quality and very friendly to the novice or power-user.

I use my desktop mostly for gaming, and I have a variety of games that all place different demands on the hardware. For example, MS Flight Simulator X depends heavily on the CPU so my video just sits there yawning. On the other hand, Crysis crushes the GPU and is not very dependent on the CPU. Then some games, like GTA IV depend on BOTH the GPU and the CPU for top performance.

The only hardware that does not get fully utilized in my PC is the RAM...I currently have 6GB (remember, the Core i7 is triple channel, so RAM has to come in multiples of 3). Like kcarlile said, spend more on the GPU and CPU and not so much on the RAM.

I have NO experience with ATI cards at all, I've always been a nVIDIA fanboy so I can't help you with your graphics card. I currently run a EVGA Geforce GTX 275 FTW and couldn't be happier with it...it crushes every game I throw at it! I don't know what the ATI equivalent is, but a card like that should do you just fine!

If you are comfortable building a PC, then I would highly suggest you purchase your parts from Newegg (www.newegg.com). Great prices, great service. I was able to build my current PC for about $1200, all parts from Newegg (this was in July, so I'm sure prices have dropped a little since then). Here are the specs so you get an idea:

Core i7 920 OC'd to 3.8GHz
Cooler Master Hyper N520 CPU cooler
EVGA X58 3-way SLI motherboard
6GB OCZ DDR3-1600 Triple Channel RAM
EVGA Geforce GTX 275 FTW
2 Western Digital Black 1TB SATA-II HDD
XClio 850W GreatPower PSU
XClio A380 Full ATX Case

Hope this helps, please let me know if I can offer any more help or information!

By the way, I just recently upgraded from Windows Vista x64 to Windows 7 x64. What a great operating system! The OS overhead is SO much lower on 7 than Vista...last night I checked Task Manager and I was using only 700MB of RAM to run the OS, it used to be 1.2-1.3 GB for Vista just to sit there!

Less OS overhead = more gaming goodness

Thanks. I may only do 4GB of RAM. I figured I'd probably go 64 bit on this machine, assuming no one has had issues running games in the 64 bit version of the OS, so I was going to take advantage of the extra RAM mostly because I could.

I'm leaning towards getting a bare bones system with the mobo, case, processor, power supply, and then buying the other parts to put in myself. Unless I can find someone that will let me customize enough to get what I want, I'll likely go that route.

I was reading more about the ATI cards last night. It seems like the 5700 series or I believe the 4800 was comparable to these performance wise or even slightly better. Slightly lower cost as well, but no DirectX11 support. Not sure how long it will be before we start seeing games taking advantage of Directx11.

I'm not planning on overclocking and was looking at the Core i7 860. LGA1156 instead of LGA1366 socket I believe. It looks like I may be pretty much topped out as far as what processor I can use if I go this route, but I also don't plan to upgrade to a different processor during the machines life, so I don't know that this matters. The Core i7 900 series seems to start using the LGA1366 socket.

The memory still seems to be in groups of 2 for the 800 series, then goes to groups of 3 for the 900 series. Processors

Not sure why, as both are DDR3. The little bit of looking I've done seems to indicate a big price jump to go to the 900 series, except for the 920, so that could be an option too. 920 is 2.66Ghz vs. 2.8 for the 860, so a minor difference there. Not sure that the other differences are between the 900 and 800 series besides the socket (and therefore mobo) it uses. I'll have to look more.

The next gen Core i7 and i5 (along with yet another socket change) are actually back to dual channel RAM.

I was considering an upgrade to components as well but considering how often Intel changes socket types, i'm actually pondering whether i might just go AMD anyway and chance a cpu upgrade with the same socket in two years.

Will probably ponder for another 6 months....

Chesseroo: the new Core i7 and Core i5 are NOT the next generation...they are the mainstream versions of the more high-end (read:older) Core i7 LGA1366. Intel has not changed socket types at all, they have simply introduced a new socket for more of the average Joe. They have every intention of supporting the LGA1366 for many more chips to come.

Why they have designated some LGA1156 as Core i7's and some as Core i5's, I don't know. They decided to drop back down to dual-channel memory because the performance benefits of triple-channel vs dual-channel are negligable.

From what I understand, the LGA1366 Core i7's will continue to be on the bleeding-edge of technology (future 8-core chips, etc) while the LGA1156 will always be marketed more mainstream. With future upgrades, we may see the triple-channel memory controller become more useful.

Zarak: One good thing about the LGA1156 is that it will run cooler than the 130W Core i7's. Let me tell you, the older i7's can really heat up a room!

As far as your lack of desire to overclock, I have to ask :)...why the heck not?!?! That is what these processor are made for! If you were to purchase the i7 920, you would be able to surpass 3.0GHz with no effort whatsoever...the i7 860, I'm sure, would also be able to achieve much higher clock speeds with ease.

Of course, if you are not comfortable with overclocking that is perfectly fine...I just hate to see you spend so much money on a processor and not even begin to tap its full potential, especially when it is so easy to do.

Hi Brandon,

I've had some trouble pushing my 920 past 3.6GHz, at least when I'm doing my testing with Linpack. Did you use that, or did you use Prime95? Linpack's supposed to be the most brutal thing possible.

The 860 has a great turbo boost feature, so I don't know if I would OC that one, and risk losing that. The 920? Absolutely.

I guess I'm not planning to OC because I haven't looked into it recently. I remember hearing stories early on of people killing their chips by trying to get too much out of them. Another concern is heat. I assume an OC chip runs hotter. We are likely getting a new desk for the office where the computer will basically site inside of a storage cabinet in the desk to "hide" it for WAF. While it might look nicer, part of my concern with a new machine is it running cool enough that being in tucked away instead of open won't be an issue for it.

If I could OC easily, without additional risk of damage or increased heat concerns, then I'd consider it. Processor also doesn't seem to be the bottleneck on my things, which is another reason I've steered away. It seems like RAM and the video card hit their limits before the proc does.

You definitely have increased heat output, but if you do it sanely, you don't really risk component damage. What you want to avoid is pushing the voltage too high. With the Core i5s and i7s, you can generally get a few hundred out of it without even moving the voltage.

If the computer case must be put inside a cabinet, then heat will be a major concern. I might lean towards the i7 860...running at 90W (I believe) as opposed to 130W will be very helpful.

However, I also agree with kcarlile...you can get a few to several hundred MHz just on stock voltage. In fact, with my i7 920, I was able to run overclocked from 2.67GHz to 3.2GHz with my CPU UNDERVOLTED by 0.1V. Now, when I tried to push above 3.2, it really REALLY required the juice.

Every chip is different, see what yours is capable of. Like kcarlile said, you are not going to kill your chip right off the bat as long as you approach your overclocking slowly and carefully. Remember, increasing the speed of the CPU will damage nothing...the worst that will happen is your PC will BSOD and you will have to lower your clock speeds. What damages your chips is voltage, and ultimately, heat. Having said that, you would really need to do some crazy, stupid voltages to destroy one of these new processors...they have built in thermal protection to turn themselves off before they give up the ghost.

kcarlile: I'm sending you a personal message concerning the finer details of OCing...I don't want to seem like I'm hogging this thread with techno mumbo-jumbo

Along with the 860 due to cooling are there other things I might be able to do? I'd say extra fans, but if just ends up blowing out into an enclosed area that's no good.

I'm trying to find a desk that has good wire management without the computer being in a cabinet so this is not a concern. The current desk has no wire management AND there is an opening of about a foot at the bottom so you can see in where all the wires are as you walk into the office.

I know water cooling exists, but I don't think I need to go that far.

Yeah, I agree, unsightly wires are no good...I wish you luck in finding a new desk.

I'm still not ready to make the jump to water cooling either...something about water inside the computer case that just scares me!

Unless you can move the heat somewhere outside the desk (ie, with water cooling with the radiator outside the desk or something) more fans will do you no good--remember that they're just moving heat, not actually removing it. Same with a large heatsink--it's moving heat off of the CPU, but that heat's still in the case and outside the exhaust ports on the case.

Yup...I'd like to keep the computer out of a cabinet for just that reason. I'm hoping to find a good desk that hides wires but doesn't have a PC cabinet.

Been looking at monitors tonight mostly. I'm thinking the Dell sp2309w. I considered the Samsung 2343bwx as well, but the Dell is 2ms response time vs. 5 and the Dell also has HDMI.

I looked at the Samsung 2232bw a while back, which I believe was replaced by the 2253bw, which has now also been replaced, I think by the samsung I'm looking at, but can't confirm that.

I've not been particularly impressed by the low response time monitors; they generally have poor viewing angles and color reproduction. I'd look at the Dell Ultrasharps; they're more expensive, but generally higher quality.

I'm not worried about viewing angle, as long as it looks good from the sweet spot, my chair at the desk. Color repro is a concern though. Potential for ghosting during fast moving games is a bigger one though. I haven't looked at LCD Tv's in a while, but I definitely noticed motion blur in the past while watching one.(pre 120hz days) I want to make sure that isn't an issue with whatever monitor I end up with. I'd like to keep the monitor under $300 as well.

I've used both Dells ("regular" and UltraSharps) and Samsung, and have been impressed by the quality of both. My friend, who does photography as a side job, says that true color reproduction is not accurate on either Samsung or Dell, but the Dell is much closer to being true. I can't tell any difference, but my Samsung (SyncMaster 220wm) looks more vibrant to me.

My Dell monitor had 8ms response time, and my current Samsung has 5 ms...I've never noticed ghosting with either monitor so I think you will be fine with either 5ms or 2ms.

Vibrant is almost always not more accurate. Think of it as turning up the Color control on a TV. It makes everyone look sunburned. Many new LCDs can display more saturated colors than the standard sRGB range (the ViewSonic I have does 110% of the NTSC range). That's fine of you create a profile with a color calibration tool, and apply color management in your software. Actually, with that setup, it's really good for photographers because today's dSLR cameras can capture more colors than the sRGB range also.

Oh, sorry, didn't mean to give the wrong impression...I know that more vibrant does not necessarily mean more accurate color. I was just saying that I really don't care about accurate color reproduction...I just like my Samsung monitor because it makes my games look more vibrant and colorful than my Dell monitor does.

When I spill digital blood, I want it to be vibrant red

So the desk has been purchased, and it doesn't have a cabinet for the computer to sit inside of

We had some friends move out of the development and they wanted to sell their office furniture, which was only a year or two old, so we saved ourselves the trouble of looking at desks anymore and bought it from them. The desk was delivered this morning. The set has 3 bookshelves that line up next to each other that are on the back wall and a two drawer filing cabinet as well that matches the other pieces.

Anyway, now that we have the desk, I can go back to looking for a the computer to put on it. There is a computer show locally this weekend, so I may go there if I have time.

I'd like to do dual monitor as well, but am still trying to get that past WAF.

Eh, forget dual. Triple is where it's at.

I'd be happy with triple, but if dual is having WAF issues, no way is triple going to fly.

I'm thinking I need a TV tuner (probably hauppauge) for the new machine too since Win7 does HD clear QAM.

So we discussed monitors tonight. I've got two options. Buy one new 23" monitor and get rid of the old one (15", not widescreen) or buy one new 20" monitor and keep the old one also so I have two.

I think I'm going with option 2, but now I have to find a good 20" monitor.

Finding a good 20" is very difficult. I've been kind of looking in a half-assed way, but I haven't found anything apart from the Apple ones, and those are expensive.

Yeah, I'm doing a little looking and not having much luck so far. Most of the good ones seem to have been made 4 years ago and they don't make them anymore.

I'm open to suggestions if someone knows a good 20" monitor.

If you are looking for a new monitor I strongly suggest going with an IPS panel, that have superior viewing angles compared to TNs panels, esp if you plan on getting a large monitor.

They are more pricey, but well worth it in my opinion.

If you can find an IPS in a 20".

I'm not that concerned with viewing angle, as I'll only be looking at it from straight on. I'll do some more digging on 20" monitors and see what I come up with.

I'd like to get something that does HDMI since the new video card will. It seems like 21.5" is about as small as they go for a HDMI connection though. This is the best one I have found so far.

You probably don't want to use HDMI as your output for your monitor; I think that's more for TVs. I would use either DVI or DisplayPort.

Why are they including HDMI in video cards for the computer then? I just assumed this is the next step up from DVI. Haven't done any research along those lines though.

So you can output to a TV. Mainly for HTPCs. DP is the next step up from DVI.

Back to the computer part again...went to my first computer show in many years today. Realized I'm not missing much anymore. It felt like a flea market of people trying to get rid of old stuff. Only two vendors had any newer systems. Didn't stay there long, but decided to look on newegg this evening to see what I could build a system for myself.

Here is what I came up with.

Rosewill Conqueror RPS-01-WB500P Triple 120mm Fans Steel ATX Mid tower Computer Case with 500W Power Supply

Western Digital Caviar Black WD1001FALS 1TB 7200 RPM SATA

SAPPHIRE 100283-2L Radeon HD 5770 1GB 128-bit GDDR5 PCI Express 2.0 x16

G.SKILL 4GB (2 x 2GB) 240-Pin DDR3 SDRAM DDR3 1600 (PC3 12800) Dual Channel Kit Desktop Memory Model

Intel Core i7-860

GIGABYTE GA-P55A-UD4P LGA 1156 Intel P55 SATA 6Gb/s USB 3.0 ATX Intel Motherboard w/ USB 3.0 & SATA 6 Gb/s

Total after shipping comes in at just under $900. I think all I am missing is a DVD drive, but I can take that from my old machine.

Now I just have to decide if I should pull the trigger, and if I want to spend the time building this myself.

I came across cyberpower PC's web site, that lets you custom build machines for what seem to be pretty good prices.

I came up with this build.

It comes to about $1050 after shipping - rebates. So about an extra $150, I mostly but not exactly get the parts I want, and it comes built for me.

I don't know if I would go with a Rosewill case, much less a Rosewill power supply. I'd stick with Antec for the case and probably Corsair for the PSU. Admittedly, this'll cost more. But a bad PSU can really ruin your day.

The cases and power supplies are the part I know the least about. I figured the power supplies are the same with the exception of the wattage.

I'll have to look at Antec.

I'm completely sold on Corsair (Seasonic OEM) PSUs. Very energy efficient and unbelievably quiet.

Yeah, I'm very happy with the Corsair in my current computer. I'll be sticking with the brand for my new build.

I saw Newegg has some Seasonic's also...might be able to get the same thing basically for a lower price that way. I'm still looking. I may do the coolermaster HAF 922 case.

I just put the 550w Corsair into my cart. I'm up to just over $1000 with the new case and power supply. Was trying to keep it under 1000, but I don't think I'll quibble about the $17 I'm over.

Thats how I ended up with the Corsair. It was $10 cheaper than the same Seasonic at the time.

It was only about $15 more on a combo deal for a CD/DVD burner (SATA) so I threw that in as well...why not.

I'm going to do a little more looking at cases, as the one I have in there now is $120 after shipping. Once I get that figured out I think I'll go ahead and do it and build it myself.

I have to put in my vote for XClio PSUs. I've used XClio for my last two builds and have nothing bad to say about them. I used to use Antec all the time until they started dying after only a year or so of service.

Good choice with the CoolerMaster HAF 922 case. I'm going to upgrade to the HAF 932 in a couple of months. Axiom speakers first, new computer case second

Glad to see you have your priorities right

Amen, Jay! No computer case, no matter how nice, can compare to the pure bliss that comes from Axiom speakers! Right now my M22's/EP350 are filling the room with the gentle and subtle sounds of Rob Zombie

I think the 922 is a bit bigger than I want. My current case is about 17x8x17. I'd like to stick at least close to that. Mid towers seem to have gotten bigger.

Antec Sonata Elite is best I've come up with so far that is close to my current size...still looking.

It looks like an Antec 300 case.

I probably shouldn't even ask this question here, as I'm pretty sure I know what answer I'll get, but....

The mobo has an onboard soundcard, so I was just going to use that. Is it really worth the $80 to get a better one instead? I saw this one got good reviews...haven't looked to see what creative has that's comparable.

I have found a great amny of the on board soundcards are not very good but if you are using the SPDIF out to a receiver then they work just fine.

I would probably spend a little more to get the Xonar DX2--that one has RF shielding on the card. My Xonar DX picks up noise from the video card fan, or something on the video card. Or at least it did when I had a video card.

That's why I say get a digital connection out of the case. Computers are not friendly places for analog audio to hang out.

That works for me.

The DX2 is double the price of the other one. My computer speakers aren't very good at the moment (unless I get new ones for Christmas) so I'm inclined to not do a sound card at all and use the onboard. I was trying to keep the price around 1000, without monitor (just ordered the Dell 2409w btw). If the sound is bad, I could always put on in later.

Just didn't know how much worse the onboard would be vs. buying a card.

Haven't looked into digital connections from the case, so don't know what's involved there.

There won't be a receiver involved.

In that case, I'd say go with onboard.