Axiom Home Page Forums General Discussion Advice from Axiom Owners Running Audyssey

As some of you know I have a Denon 2310, which obviously has the Audyssey setup program.

Now, after Audyssey has done its thing, are you guys going in and double checking it? I am wondering if it's worth using an SPL meter to double check it, or if that kind of defeats the purpose. The only things I would want to change for sure is possibly bump the center and sub a few db's, and turn dynamic compression off. My older Onkyo used to get crazy settings with Audyssey so I never even used it.

The older systems were notorious for incorrect settings, the newer versions appear to have things ironed out for the most part. I would still use an SPL meter and double check the settings and it will allow you to increase the volume for those speakers that you want for a better match. If you were to simply adjust by ear you may have a setting too high and for some material it may sound 'off'

My buddy has an SPL meter I can borrow, so no big deal to double check it. I just didn't want to waste time for worse results if Audyssey would do a better job.

The auto setup programs are very good now but you never know, some background noise etc. could cause an issue and the settings could be off.

The old systems (other than some Onkyo's) simply balanced the speakers. The new ones try to hit 75db.

While it doesn't hurt to use the SPL, keep in mind that both the SPL and mic can be off by +/- 2db.

If it gives you peace of mind to double check your system once to make sure the auto setup and Audyssey are working properly and you can borrow a meter then you might as well. Even on my older Denon and now my new Onkyo all speakers are always within 1dB of each other.

With the current version of Audyssey on my Onkyo I’m not even checking or tweaking it anymore because it’s making better settings than I can.

I agree Grunt, I used to follow up on my Denon 2805 setup routine, which was pretty darn accurate. The only thing I changed was to set my 80's and 150 to small. Since Denon uses 40hz and 3dB roll off to determine small/large, they came up large. People think it is Audyssey that sets this, it is the receiver AVR. I have the 80's crossed over at 60hz.

My older Denon was somewhat random in setting large/small but my new Onkyo set all my speakers to small even the L/R mains which it also set a 40Hz crossover so I guess Onkyo uses a different cutoff. I’m really convinced now that something was wrong with my Denon or it’s mic but now I have no issues with the settings made by the Onkyo since the whole system has never sounded this good before so for now I don’t plan on doing much tweaking.

I’m assuming that since my M80s are out away from walls/corners I’ve been getting pretty even bass response from them even before the Onkyo. But I am very impressed with the smother bass response from the EP500 that the updated version of Audyssey is giving. I may experiment with setting the M80s to 80Hz just to see what the finer filters that Audyssey applies to the LFE channel do but like I said I’m already quite impressed with what it’s doing under the current settings:

L/R M80s small 40Hz
C M80 small 50Hz
All 4 QS8s small 100Hz

I have the sub directly behind my seating about 5 feet back so even though the QS8s are crossed over at 100 I’m not getting any localization of the bass.

I checked my SPL measurements just for the heck of it, and Audyssey set my speakers within +/-2db within 75db on my Denon 590. Sub was a little on the hot side, but I like it that way anyway.

^Good to know

I like the sub (and centre) a few db high as well.

Ok, so I ran this over the weekend and it turned out well. I changed a couple things, but really not a big deal. It set the levels to 72 db so I turned each speaker up just a little bit to get it to 75 db on the SPL, sounds great.

My question is, even turning the settings up a bit, all my levels are still below the 0 mark. The fronts are all around -3, the sub (with the gain in the middle on the sub itself) and rears are around -6.5 to -8. I find I have to run the Denon at about -18 for a movie. Would it accomplish anything by setting each speaker say, 5 db higher, and then running the Denon at -23?

I think the differences are simply the +- differences between the meters in use (Audyssey vs an SPL meter). It should be OK to raise the levels even more, it is after all just a starting point and for balance.

I guess it doesn't really matter in the end, just wondered if there was a reason to leave it alone.

Lastly, I think I am going to move my sub... Should I re-do the entire Audyssey setup, or can I just set the distance manually and set the level with the SPL after it is moved?

I would redo Audyssey, the sub might have a different impact on the room from a different spot, remember the subcrawl.

Probably a good idea, doesn't take much more than 15 minutes anyway.

Thanks again!

If you mess with the dB levels after Audyssey runs, your defeating the purpose of running Audyssey.

The relations of the speakers to each other stay the same though, which is why I asked the question. If your base is 75, if you subtract 8 through channel level but then add it back in by running the receiver 8 db higher, I don't see why it makes any difference than just having the channel level at 0 in the first place. It seems as if Audyssey figures out the speaker which needs the most level removed from it, and then adds level to the others. So in some cases like mine where one is 8 db too high (right surround), the fronts are still negative because they only need to be 5 db higher.

Like I said it I don't really care, just curious as to why it's done that way. What if the my receiver would only allow -6 db on any given channel? Would Audyssey then calibrate everything else 2 db higher?

I suppose this is why people much smarter than I develop these things.

There's a second thing that Audyssey does in addition to making each of the speakers equal in relation to each other, is to make -0 dB "reference" for movie playback. Changing the speaker levels, even in the same amount will move 0 from reference.

^There's the answer I was looking for.

That also makes sense as to why my SPL levels were at 72 db, and not 75.

Cool beans.

Isn't it the receiver and not Audyssey that sets the speaker levels and distances, Audyssey goes the extra mile and sets up an EQ based on the room environment. You can adjust levels up or down(yes reference is then moved but each to his own, loud is loud) just not the Crossover because Audyssey uses that frequency for its algorithym.

Well, I ran it again tonight, the settings were pretty similar to before, except the sub. I did the sub crawl and with the sub moved closer to the couch and more in the corner, it went from -7 setting to -12, which is maxed, so I ran it again with the gain turned down to about 1/3, it was at half. Still -12, crap. Turn gain down to 1/4 and go again. Now it's at -5. So, just moving the sub I gained about 12 - 15 db from it, all things equal. I'm not surprised because in the middle of the room the SPL goes off the charts low. My biggest problem with the whole Audyssey system is that it is calibrating for a given area, which is good obviously if you have a family, or a larger theatre. Personally for just myself and the wife I find it's just as easy to nail it down with the SPL for a smaller area. Audyssey is nice for the EQ and distance settings.

Jakewash, I know we talked about this before (I think it was you) but I have the PB12-NSD. Tonight is the first time I have really cranked on it with some U571 scenes and the hospital explosion scene from Dark Knight. The thing is extremely clean, but I have to say I can't really feel the bass like I thought I would. I can't say I'm disappointed with it because it clearly is a good sub, and it'll go louder than I'll ever need, but perhaps I'm used to a boomier sub that you can feel more. Is there anything I should be trying or is this just what good bass is supposed to be?

I suppose you're right. I'm used to Pioneer where they use their own in-house auto-setup and refer to the whole system as MCACC. Where as Audyssey is their own company who makes room calibration software which some receiver makers use as part of their setup routine.

I'm not sure if the crossover is tied to the Audyssey either. At least on the Pio, you can change your crossover freq. after setup, because it uses full bandwidth pink noise for the EQ tests. If you set the crossover higher it just doesn't use the bottom band of the EQ, but it still knows how the speaker performs down there.

I don't know if this helps at all, but in my Denon menu there is a seperate setting I noticed tonight where you can set whereyou want Audyssey reference level to be. Default is at 0, but you can adjust it to where you wish and then run Audyssey from there.

Audyssey sets everything with the exception of the speaker size. The AVR will set your speakers to small or large. Audyssey highly recommends that you manually change this setting to small, if your receiver sets them to large.

I used to think it did nothing but apply filters to the different channel frequencies, but learned I was wrong after reading the Audyssey thread at AVS. The founder and chief technical guru routinely responds to questions there. It’s a very long thread, but if you search it, and make sure you put Audyssey in the Poster name block, you will more than likely find the “correct” answer to any question you might have in regards to using Audyssey.

Here’s a quote from Audyssey that I found interesting……..




Thread: http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?p=17490415#post17490415

Audyssey FAQ: http://www.audyssey.com/faq/index.html


As a side note, I like my center channel 2 db higher than the R/L. I always check channel levels with my SPL meter and adjust as needed, which typically is very minor, with the exception of my center.

That's what I have done as well.

i ran audyssey today for the umpthteenth time just for fun. it's been a while since i moved on to the spl meter a couple of months ago.

on my onkyo tx sr 607. it set the mains at full range the center full range and the surrounds at 60hz?????. also it automatically sets the dynamic EQ to "ON" and to my surprise it set the double bass to "OFF", which it normally use to set to "ON".

double bass on the onkyo is when it sends the bass from L/R speakers to the sub??? i've always thought this was a weird setting since the mains are set to full range.im assuming Full Range=Large, i mean why set to large if your going to roll off the bass anyway?

anyways i really like that it calculates distance well. i have double checked the distances with a tape measure, and it was perfect. today i also checked the sound level calibration and it was dead on! only difference is that i use "55" on the volume for 75db's and the audyssey used "60" , i did like that. it sounds better matched than when i used "55" on the volume.

i did make some changes though. i changed the dynamic EQ to "OFF" and i also changed the mains L/R to 60hz and the center and surrounds to 80hz and the double bass i left off. sub crossover to 80hz. it sounds great with my current set up. I seriously cannot wait to set up the axioms...AAARRGGGGGGG!!!!

i think i'll take the same route. run audyssey then adjust size and make sure double bass and dynamic EQ are off..

Jorge, Dynamic EQ is a feature that's been very well-received by most(including me). Don't confuse it with Dynamic Volume which compresses volume differences(e.g., for TV commercials). The Dynamic EQ compensates for the lower sensitivity of our ears to bass and treble at lower volumes and also increases the relative surround level at lower volumes. This improves the overall effect when listening at other than very high levels.

tx for bringing that to my attention john . i just read the article over at the audyssey website and it definetly sounds interesting i'll have to give it a go tomorrow.

i wonder now if i did confuse it with dynamic volume. and maybe just left it off :0)

i use to just turn it on at night, but i'll look into how it sounds on all the time.

Jorge, Audyssey does not set speakers to small or large, that is the AVR manufacturer decision. Audyssey recommends that any speaker that rolls off at 40hz should be considered large. Some AVR companies, like Denon, follow this 40hz rule, while others, I think Marantz, use 80hz.

Audyssey still recommends you go into your receiver setup menu and change those speakers to "small". Also, you can increase the crossover number for those speakers, to say 80hz or whatever, but never reduce this number. My 80's are on 60hz, my vp150 is at 80hz, and my Qs8's are at 90hz. All Small....

Leave Dynamic EQ on as well.

Also Double Bass does not roll off the lows to the mains when the speakers are set to large, they play full range(no crossover imposed on them) and everything below the crossover is sent to the sub, thus doubling the low bass output, so to speak.

Hey guys, I've forgotten how much the update costs, can anyone help the little gimp?

Thanks

$100. I assume you are talking about the feature pack upgrade for the 3808. I also had to email Denon Canada to get the form to fill in for us Canucks as it is no longer on their web site.

Yeah, that's what I was talking about.

Thanks dude.