Axiom Home Page Forums General Discussion Advice from Axiom Owners room correction (Audyssey & Trinnov) with QS4 QS8

Thanks JohnK

The problem with the new Trinnov room correction software is that it doesn't use a single mic. Up until now the setup/correction software has just been concerned with frequency and time. Only the distance to the speaker was calculated. So they setup software would send out a click to each speaker and time how long it takes for the front edge of the sound pulse to reach the mic. That first blip would be considered the shortest distance from the speaker to the mic. Any additional sound would be from reflections.

Trinnov uses a 4-mic capsule. It doesn't just measure the time it takes for the rising edge of the click to reach one mic, it also uses the delay between each mic in the cluster. The mics are arranged in a 3D pattern that when knowing the slight delay between each one, you can compute the distance, angle around, and elevation above the measuring position. Trinnov uses this to virtually remap the speakers position in space (by mixing content into neighboring speakers with phase and delay adjustment). The problem comes when a speaker has more than one high frequency driver, and even more so when they are pointed in different directions. The mic cluster gets two rising edges, with a very small delay between them, and even worse each tweeter may be "heard" first by different mics. So the calculations are completely thrown off. The Trinnov processor either can't locate the speaker in space, or guesses its location completely wrong.

Hi Axiomoholic,

To paraphrase a famous psycho-acoustical scientist and former president of the Audio Engineering Society world-wide (Dr. Floyd Toole), a pod of 4 microphones (Trinnov) or various measurement locations (Audyssey) are no match for two ears and a brain, and manual calibration with an SPL meter.

As has been pointed out, these systems are error-prone with bipolar or dipolar surrounds and subwoofers. They have their greatest utility with inferior non-linear speakers. And as Sir Quack has pointed out, they may sometimes be effective with certain rooms.

Certainly try them out if your receiver came with them, but do not rely on them or view them as a magical electronic "fix" that will somehow be superior to what you can accomplish with your ears, a pink-noise signal and an SPL meter. Compare the results from manual calibration with either Audyssey or Trinnov turned on, then off. With smooth, highly linear speakers like Axioms, the use of the auto-EQ functions of either Audyssey or Trinnov usually result in degraded sound quality.

Regards,
Alan

Just to add one note on another correction method - I have a Pioneer receiver with the MCACC. I also let it do it's thing, but then turn off the EQ setting it comes up with as I also find the sound is just 'thinner' with the EQ engaged. I do however find the standing wave correction improves things in my room.

I find just the opposite with the Pioneer MCACC. The sound is fuller with the EQ setting turned on. It probably all depends on the room.

Fully agreed - for my room my treble goes up and bass goes down, just less depth/richness/texture with EQ on.

Hi axioomoholic,

I’d love to here your impressions of the R-972. I had waited months for it to finally start shipping because it looked like it would have a couple features I was very interested in including Trinnov, however when people started reporting all the flaws in the first units I deceded to skip this first generation of “affordable” Trinnov capable machines. I’m still interested in how weel it works with the QS style speakers, if the speaker remaping works well and AFAIR it was going to be capable of storing more than one calibration setup.

As for using Audyssey I’ve had mixed luck. (anticipating the inevitable question yes I’ve always followed the instructions in the thread at AVS to the letter). In my Denon Audyssey made my speakers sound hollow and tinny, however I have to believe there was something defective in that unit as no one could possible have deemed what I was hearing as an improvement.

In my present Onkyo Audyssey is also a mixed bag because of how they chose to implement it. Audyssey does a good job smoothing out the bass from my subwoofer however, it also rolls off the highs something I don’t like for most music. Unfortunately the Onkyo unlike the Denon doesn’t have the option to use a “Flat” curve only the “Audyssey” curve which rolls off the highs. Some have suggested I just boost the treble when using Audyssey but it just doesn’t sound the same.

So for me right now I turn Audyssey on for movies and games but off for music.

I haven’t detected any problems so far with the QS8 when using Audyssey in 3 different rooms.

Have you looked to see if your Onkyo can be upgraded to Audyssey Pro? It's about $500 for the kit and the license, but it does allow for custom curves, and more measurement locations to be averaged together.

No I haven’t looked into it, but I will check it out. However, I based on the results I’ve heard with the stock Audyssey setup I can’t imagine giving them another $500 especially considering there are at lest 15 things I can think of off the top of my head that will improve my listening viewing experience better than a more expensive version of Audyssey.

I haven’t really looked but have you seen any independent testing done to verify what Audyssey is really doing (results), as I understand the concept. Everyone seems to have an opinion on how it great/poorly it works but getting any real information seems hard to come by.

I also very much dislike the way Audyssey changes the sound of my speakers. I find it accentuates the highs and makes them sound "bright". I also don't like how it plays with my subwoofer, as Alan mentioned.

Question-Some of you guys mentioned that it makes your Axioms sound "tinny", is that a nice way of saying "bright"? Just trying to learn.

Thanks