Axiom Home Page Forums General Discussion The Water Cooler Dishwasher

Hey guys,

Any of you have any recommendations on a built in dishwasher? I really would like to keep it under $500 out the door. Energy efficient is a major plus.

Gawd, I thought we just did this...

Kitchenaid for me.

Don't know much about new ones, I've still got my Whirlpool from 19 yrs ago, never had a single problem with it.

We did Tom but I'm not looking to spend 1K on one, hence the question.

Maybe if you weren't always buying new subwoofers for yourself!

This could be true. I just bought a new sub from eD for my truck. They are in the process of making me a custom box too

A man has got to have his priorities right.

While the little missus muses in the background "Yea as long as you don't mind doing the dishes by hand Mister"

She said she doesn't mind as long as I'm happy

Yeah right

We like Bosch, but not sure if they have any in that price range. Our last one was super quiet - I think 45 dB, or was it 48? - something like that. I didn't even mind having it running while I was in the living room watching TV, and usually those kind of distractions get under my skin.

Another nice thing about Bosch is that they have a sensor that does not allow it to run if there is a water leak present. Could save repair bills later.

We just installed a Miele in our new house. We just couldn't go back to louder cheaper models after I installed one in our old house a few years ago. It hits 40 db while running at it's loudest peak. I am pretty sure they do not offer any in the $500 price range much like Bosch.

IMO, I would buy a Kenmore in the $500-600 range just because Sears backs the Kenmore name very well.

Sorry, Rick. I misunderstood. Long day.

I kind of agree with Jay - if you have a hard limit on price, a Kenmore (which is probably a Whirlpool or GE) is probably a good bet.

Now, about dryers...

Anybody use a Gas-fired one? Any other comments? Our aging Frigidaire (hey, it matched the now-long-gone front loading washer) is fickle. Probably going to spend ~$800 on the Whirlpool (to match the new washer).

Dryers?

Yeah, Rick, I co-opted your thread.

OK, I'm w/ Tom on the derail...sorry.

We're looking at washer/dryers now as well, specifically a gas dryer since I just had that hookup added to our remodeled laundry room.

We have a top loader and now and want to back to a front loader. We used to have some Kenmore Elites and they were very good. I checked CR and they recommended a GE WCVH6800JWW that's now on sale at Sears. Sears is hvaing a 25% appliance sale right now, though it's ending soon. They have a matching dryer. I had my local appliance store quote it and he was close to Sears so I'm giving him my business. Helps since we pretty much bought our kitchen there too. The owner said the GE is a good one for the cost and feature set. I asked about LG but he didn't carry it so no comment.

I went with Kitchen Aid over the Bosch when I built the house (bout 10 years ago). Not that I had a strong preference, but both had very similar specs and costs, but the Kitchen Aid went with the rest of my appliances. The dishwasher is very quiet and easy to fix if something goes wrong. I don’t know if it’s in the $500 price range though. Might be if you don’t go with Stainless.

Tom – I bought a new washer / dryer last summer. The dryer is gas. They were one of the Kenmore HE series (4 or 5??). I opted to NOT go with the steam assist drying thing. It sounded like a cool idea at first, but when I looked at it more, your drying time goes up a bunch. The washer has a feature for disinfecting with super hot water as well (that I actually had to use once already). At any rate, they have proven to be pretty good units and I’d recommend them to anyone.

We bought a GE WBVH5200 last year and it has worked flawless. We are very happy with the purchase.

Going back on topic, just for a second, I fixed the dishwasher. When I got home from work I tore it all apart to find it had a wire going to the control panel broke. I just put in a small section of wire and crimped the ends; plugged it in and it works.

New sub for my truck and the wife gets to keep her old dishwasher. Not that's what I call a good deal

This is what I used.

Sweet deal, Rick! Appliance Win!

From this day forward he'll be known as Rick 'Maytag Man' Wid ... the axiomite.

Done!

We were going to pick KitchenAid because of my previous hatred for Miele and our previous one. It took FOREVER to run and didn't do a good job. Our current Bosch is quiet but also has the same problem but can sometimes take over 2 hours (RIDICULOUS).

I had chosen the Kitchenaid KUDS40CVSS and was happy that it had a disposal built in. Then I spoke w/ our local salesman (boutique mom/pop store that's over 25 years in business) and he explained that even the Bosch's filter does the same as the Kitchenaid's disposal. The internal disposal can't be considered to have the same ability as a sink disposal. He also mentioned that the KA heating elements are at the bottom. So if you wash plastic material and dry w/ heat, you CAN'T place them on the bottom rack, or you risk melting stuff. The wife isn't diligent about noticing these things so that was a deal killer. He recommended the Bosch SHX43P15UC and it was similarly priced.

Hmmm, no problems with either one of our Miele dishwashers both work great, although the first one did work a little better due to it's built in water softener. 2hrs for washing dishes, no problem for me. I usually forget it is on and am in no hurry to have them washed right away either, but if I was, I would use the quick cycle which is about the same as most other dishwashers.

I'M BACK.

Well, the f*$king Kitchenaid has just about had it. Good riddance, you miserable POS.

I thought it was a nice unit, but it's been uncool for a while. I've had to fix the load spring thing (the doodad that makes it not seem like the door weighs 50 pounds) twice. Once, I did it, and then had it done. Had to remove the gasket around the soap dispenser so that it would close properly. Had to dissemble, clean and reassemble all the water squirty parts a couple of times (we actually have very SOFT water, so this makes no sense to me), bought one new silverware basket because the old one melted, and patched the new basket because it melted, too. I KNOW there are a couple other things in there, too, but I can't remember off the top of my head what they were.

Now, it doesn't reliably drain and the heater element seems to not work.

So, that SOB is going buh-bye.

Any new wisdom in the last four years?

What say you?

had a similar story with the whirlpool gold dishwasher on top of that it had became a fire hazard... best deals was at boxing day... we bought a LG dishwasher couldn't be happier! expect only 7 - 10 year life out of any one you buy no matter the brand or price... lg seems to agree with the wife factor.

Tom, Joyce and I bought a Kenmore Elite that still amazes us. It's only been a couple of years, though.

For those not aware, there are only 2 or 3 major manufacturers for all major household appliances with the exception of some out of country (e.g. German made).
I've had a few repairmen come through our house to fix a Maytag washer (6 yrs old), a Kitchenaid dishwasher (small repair from a minor recall notice), a Maytag and a GE fridge...etc.
They've all told me these manufacturers engineer the products under the well known name brand companies but just these few parent corporations own them all. Even Sears/Kenmore buys parts from these makers and just puts together their own units.

Anyone feel free to correct this information if i've been misinformed.

All that being said, which is a good brand name for household appliances knowing that most of the parts and makers are pretty much coming from the same few manufacturers?

I asked this of a few repairmen and the answers always varied. Sure the guy has 30 years experience and says he repairs Maytag the least but then another equally qualified guy tells me he repairs KitchenAid the least.

I'm personally believing that you buy a unit for its features these days and just hope it lasts long enough for you to feel you got a decent buy out of the thing.
Nothing is made to last anymore.

Incidentally we bought a KitchenAid dishwasher about 4 years ago for 50% off its retail price of $1400 because they were 'last years' model and only had 4 left in the store. It was so damn quiet that my mother bought one as well later in the week.
We've had no major issues with them and they continue to perform about as well as could be expected from any decent dishwasher.
Yes, our glasses still have spots.
That's just life with chemistry.

Chess, I think you're right.

I'm pretty sure that Maytag, Whirlpool, Kitchenaid and JennAir are all made by one company, for instance. I know you're right that all Kenmores are basically retagged/upgraded models from other manufacturers including Whirlpool, GE and others.

I am in need of a quite dishwasher. Ours is sooo loud and may be on it's last leg. I think I printed out dishwasher recommendations last year when I had a CR subscription wonder if I can still find it...

Well thanks Tom.
I'm not crazy then; at least, not at this moment.

I know Bosch is truly made in Germany and is of a different engineering group entirely but they are also kinda pricey, however i hear are of very high quality.
Still, our Kitchen Aid bought at half price has been stellar. I doubt i would have paid $1400 for it though. Our max price was probably around $900.

I need something with stainless steel front, inside stainless optional. Must be quiet and work well. Don't care about have 8 wash setting just a few options. Delayed start would be a bonus. $700 price point ideal . Any ideas?

We ended up pulling the trigger on an 800 series Bosch that was in stock and on a good sale. Bosches don't seem any more expensive than other brands around here; lots of options from $650-800 or so. Install tomorrow, and I will report back.

I was told the same thing regarding the Sears brand. They pick and choose the best and most reliable parts from the leading manufacturers and then put them under the Kenmore Elite line.

Dishwasher, washing machine and dryer are all Kenmore Elite. 5 years so far with no trouble.

There is one person I know that purchased a Bosch dishwasher in the last 3-4 years and it caught fire and the house ended up with massive smoke damage.

Hi Wid,

I've followed the Consumer Reports recommendations for dishwashers for years and bought the (noisy) cheapo Whirlpool models, both in Canada and the USA. I've never had a single problem with them. The high-priced European brands are super quiet, of course, but you certainly pay for the sound insulation.
The Whirlpool models also have excellent long-term reliability ratings in CR.

Alan

Although higher priced brands are no more safer than a lot of the cheaper units. Bosch has issued several MAJOR safety/fire recalls on their dishwasher units in the last few years.

Have a good buddy that is an appliance inside sales guy. Kenmore is not made by sears. Kenmore is made by fridgidaire. Fridgidare is owned by whirlpool I believe.

Bosch or meile are #1. But expensive.

He recommended a blomberg model and we have had zero issues over 3 years of ownership. You can have a conversation while leaning on it. Super quiet.

http://www.blombergappliances.us/

He levelled with me and said consumer grade appliances arent built to last more than 5 years or so now, so it is best to get the best value you can for what you get. As time passes all dishwashers start to show chinks in their armour.

Congrats on the Bosch, Tom!

Sorry for the late reply.

We've had a Bosch for a couple of years...super quiet (42 Db's), doesn't use a heater element for drying, very low power/water useage. It was originally priced around $2G, I think we got it for about $1100 on sale. You can barely hear it when it's on.

Who makes which Sears model of any appliance changes regularly, even mid-model year. The serial #'s designate which manufacturer actually made it, IF a Sears sales person will help you identify which is which.

Whatever you do, DO NOT buy any KOREAN appliances, at least not yet. It took Korean car makers years to get it together. We had a Samsung side-by-side that was great; worked great, great features. It died 3 years later and, after waiting 10 weeks for a new mother board in the middle of the summer, we threw it away and bought a far less nice Whirlpool (18 months ago). I looked at CR for the brand with the least repair calls. Alan got it right, it's Whirlpool---and you can get parts---like, tomorrow!

I called around appliance service companies and got the same response. Korean appliance companies are terrible about parts supply. The service man walked into the kitchen and groaned.
I said, "Hey, I chose those colors!" Seriously though, he looked at the Samsung and said, "At least it isn't an LG."

Oh, no, that'd be our top CR rated vacuum cleaner which has never worked correctly and had to be repaired when a little plastic nub broke that incapacitated the entire thing. The repair guy had to improvise, but it's solid again.

By the way, our Samsung fridge was also CR top rated.

I used to be a bigger CR fan until they named the 2002 Passat as their # 1 pick. I instantly knew that was gonna come back to bite them in the ass and it did. It cost them nothing to change their mind. It cost a couple of friends tons of cash.

A hint if anyone is looking for a washing machine never ever buy a top load Whirpool Cabrio washing machine!! Have a look on the internet worst piece of crap we ever purchased. Less then two years old and out of warranty. Would have cost as much to fix as replace, so it is now scrap metal. They are noted for the same problems over and over.

We now have a Kitchenaid dishwasher very quite, but only 3 years old! Bosch in are last house it was at least 10 years old and very quite no problems. Before that maytag noisy and built like a tank, well over twenty years of trouble free service.

Boy, if this entire thread isn't a short compendium of the new global conveyor belt's good points and bad points. The good points are only about money and China gets a whole new economy outta the deal. By the time any appliance you buy now may need a repair, the "brand" will likely be still be around, but will the sub-sub contractor, way, way far away who made one of the completely necessary widgets? And, as in my case, we know that can happen in a flash and NO, they won't still be there.

So now we are being conditioned to pay more and expect less, way less. An appliance's life expectancy has been halved in a little over a decade, "just like the price." Ha!

Very true Bob, sad imo.

David, the CR ratings you looked at last year(the most recent dishwasher tests)probably included this discussion . The Kenmore Elite was top-rated, but the model more in line with the budget you mention is the Bosch Ascenta model which was also very quiet. The models which don't have a grinder(which makes, not surprisingly, a loud grinding noise)to make the filter "self-cleaning", are the quiet ones.

I can't quote on the research behind it but our GE dishwasher is on it's 8th year without the slightest hiccup.

We bough that model basically to match our GE hybrid (gas top, electric oven) which we did do a lot of research on. So far we are extremely pleased with both.

I personally think you can do a lot of research and still end up with a dud. Especially if you buy a new years line. A friend a work build and went with an entire kitchen of 2013 Bosch an has had nothing but trouble. The fridge leaked so bad he had to put in a new floor. The stove failed and his dishwasher failed.

Another work mate bought 2011 Bosch last year and brags about them constantly (part of which led the first poor gut to buy his crappy Bosch).

I think Appliances are like cars. Look hard enough and you will get lovers and haters for every make model. Statistics can be great but new models can quickly destroy the numbers.

I installed the Bosch yesterday.

I was VERY impressed with the build quality and thoughtfulness of design compared to the old KitchenAid. It is very quiet. The third tray (up against the top) looks like a game-changer for knives, spatulas, silverware, etc.

I suppose time will tell.

Velcome to ze club, Tomas. I vill tell you ze secret handshake vhen ve meet at ze Bierhaus in one veek.

Glad to hear it Tom! Now it's time to make something really messy and try it out.

Cause "Messy" usually = "Yummy". Especially if follow followed by the words "and unhealthy."

A freind of mine just bought an Electrolux. I was standing in front of it and did not know it was running. Specs say 50 db, that put it at the bottem of the list for quiet machines. Hard for me to believe that they get any quieter.

+ Several on the Bosch.

Never, ever, EVER again will I own anything that has "LG" on it (whole 'nother story). Our Bosch is two years old and wonderful.

No heating/drying element, so be sure to follow directions and use something like JetDry. Fabulous machine. Exceptionally quiet (has a little red LED that lights onto the floor so you know when it's operating).

Our GE Profile Dishwasher is just over 9 years old and now it doesn't pump out all the water.
I have pulled it out, taken apart, cleaned to no avail.
No obstructions in the garbage disposal, drain or drain hose.
The only way it will completely empty is to shut off the water valve and run several cycles (I used the Rinse cycle).
The Pump will finally empty it out.
So I think there may be a Bosch Dishwasher in my future.
So, even though I own GE Stock I will try a different brand this time around.

/Jeff

Unfortunately, no new/late model household appliances are going to last 10 or more years any longer, no matter their cost or brand. (Remember that 35 year-old fridge still running the basement?) That's what I heard from all the service guys I've seen when I was working in a clients' houses and playing "Please let service guy in while you're here."

5-7 years is the new 10-15. Just like a women's size 8 dress is now a 4---same with her shoes size. Soon, a two-by-four will be, nominally, of course, 1 x 3."

I kinda wonder if these modern appliances that are adorned with all of these chips in their innards aren't programmed to end their life after a certain period...

TAM

That's really going to piss them off when they go sentient.

The new dishwasher was delivered yesterday, just finished with the install, not so bad, only needed a strain relief and a few wood screws to finish it up. Everything else I needed came with the dishwasher. Oh, forgot to mention this time around skipped a GE model and am trying out a Bosch 500 series, black front not SS. Tired of attempting to keep the SS clean!
/Jeff

As others have commented about this dishwasher it is very quiet, to the extent you must bend down a bit to listen closely to hear it. Oh and yes it has done a fine job of washing the dishes. The third rack at the top is pretty handy too. So far we are satisfied with it.
/Jeff

Personally, I like to hang aluminum pie plates in dishwashers of people who brag they are so quiet. Sadly, Detroit is too far away for that. For now....

Murph
If you're heading to Dwight for the next GTG, looking at a map, Detroit isn't that much further if you feel you really need to, on the other hand I'll try it for you myself, but I'll bet dollars to donuts that pie plate won't be noticeable either.
just say'in
/Jeff

Hey, I'd love to go to Rock City some day. Sorry, I know it's Motor City but I was a KISS fan when I was a kid.

trick is not to touch the ss.. simply look at it and wonder why it's called ss!

Is Detroit moving, or did you don your snow suit, climb in your kayak and make a wrong turn?

Easy for you it's only probably a four hour drive. For me, it's probably a 24 hour drive or a maybe a 6 month paddle up to, then down the Saint Lawrence and through the Great Lakes.

On the plus side, all those banging pie plates tied to my kayak may keep the gulls from pecking my eyes out once I reach the mad, delusions stage of the expedition.

The important word is "may".

Although more expensive manufacturers are no more more secure than a lot of the less expensive models. Bosch has released several MAJOR safety/fire remembers on their dish washer models in the last few decades.

Yes. Bosch is one of the most recalled brands. Their history of safety recalls has been quite substantial world wide.

Post deleted. Sorry.

Tom, by his own admission, he is a Bombayed, gin-blossomed, porch monkey with a gun. Careful. Next time, a simple "Post Deleted" may not save you.

There were these two guys having lunch one day when the first guy says to the second one, "You ever say one thing to someone when you meant to say something else?"

"How do you mean?" says the second one.

"Well last week I was at the airport in Philly and I wanted to come back here to Pittsburgh and the women at the counter had these enormous breasts so instead of asking for two tickets to Pittsburgh, I asked for two pickets to Tittsburgh."

"I know what you mean.", says the second guy. "Why just this morning I was having breakfast with my wife and I meant to ask her to pass the jelly but instead I said 'You're ruining my life you stupid bitch!'"

Porch Monkey - a black person referring to perceived common behavior of groups hanging out on front porches or steps of urban apartment complexes in US cities.

Sorry if that's what you thought or what Miriam thinks. So be it. I won't use at as loosely any more.

Where I'm from (an old urban area), any group of inebriated people (especially during the daytime), collected on a "piazza" were porch monkeys. It was also used to describe too many filthy-looking children or teens all gathered and crawling around out in front of a single residence. Frat boys in front of their ramshackle frat house qualify as well. If you didn't have a porch, but merely steps, then those conducting the same behaviors would be stoop monkeys.

I should have modified my language for the non-regional, international audience that this is. So, yes, I was incorrect. Even though you say you're on your porch drinking gin, one cannot be a sole porch monkey. My bad. One needs friends.
(The same ages and a single ethnic group wouldn't hurt, though.)

I'm out.

That is so not true.

I'll act as your surrogate friend anytime. Anyone else on board Mark's surrogate list? C'mon, people!

Spence, Lance, Philippe, Tom? I've been to his house a couple of times. He's really not that bad. Whaddya say?

Maybe he was "coming out" Bob.

But, yeah, count me in. I've actually got quite a bit of experience pretending to like Mark.

I was going to chime and say that I'm on several web boards but this is the only one that I can say that I made real friends on. Mark is absolutely one of them.

However, then I realized that the call out for people to respond came from Bob (also on my friends list whether he likes it or not) and that it must be a trap.

It wasn't. I though it'd be way cool if there ended up being tons of "yes" replies.

I was hoping, ultimately, to hit, like at least 8 or 9 ducks in a single thwack, but no luck.

He does have tons of friends here. They just seem to take cover whenever they feel his defense is about to be called upon.

He needs some new surrogate friends.

Murph, you know you're on the short(ening) list of my target audience!

Soon, it'll be so small as to be exlusive1y microbial.

Edit: Oh, I guess it was what you call a "trick." See, for me, jerking around lots of people for a cheap laugh is just another day at the office.