Axiom Home Page Forums General Discussion Advice from Axiom Owners Pioneer Elite Receiver capable of driving M80s?

Got a pair of M80s coming my way and I'm wondering if my current receiver will be capable of driving them. I also have the VP150 and QS8 surrounds if that matters. The specs for my receiver are linked below. Any advice or opinions on the matter?

http://www.pioneerelectronics.com/PUSA/P...ivers/VSX-92TXH

Welcome sgtpepper,
It likely depends on how loud you listen and how large your room is. The ICE amps in the other Pio Elites seem to be ok with M80's, but correct me if I'm wrong, this amp is not the ICE design, right?

It will most likely be fine at 'regular' levels, but at loud levels if your room is large is where the question comes into play. Perhaps someone else that has this receiver will chime in?

Cheers,

Thanks for the reply. I do not think it's an ICE design. Some people say that it can drive 4 ohm loads fine and others say no way.

Pioneer is not usually amongst the group of receivers recommended for driving the m80's. That being said, you likely won't have any problems... just have to try it out.

How far away from your speakers do you sit and how large is your room?

If you did run into problems you could always add a 2 channel amp later if needed.

Well the room is about 16x14x10(ceiling) ft. However, there is a large opening to the kitchen and to a hallway leading to the rest of the house. So the room is pretty large. I plan on getting a 2 channel amp eventually, I was just hoping it wouldn't be so soon. I'll give it a try when the speakers get here (probably about 2 weeks) and I'll give yall an update on how the Pioneer holds up. But I would still love to hear of anyone that has any experience using my receiver with M80s. If it ends up being a problem, I'll still have my M60s to use until I can afford the dedicated amp so all won't be lost.

I think I've heard of someone using that receiver with M80s, but I can't be certain. I'm pretty sure the Pioneer Elites generally seem to work ok with M80s.


EDIT: I need more qualifiers in there.

Welcome to the forum sgtpepper.

The Pioneer Elite seems like a very capable AVR. Just make sure not to run the AVR beyond its limits and you should be fine. Your room is not that big (listening distance) so I don't think there will be a problem. Any problems like the AVR shutting down would likely happen at very loud playback levels.

Enjoy your new speakers!

Sarge, welcome. Any modern HT receiver is capable of driving the M80s. The question would be how loud and how long. From your description it appears that the VSX-92TXH should be able to supply a listening level to safe limits at your listening position.

Thanks for the input fellas. I will give yall an update when I get my speakers. I ended up finding them used for $635 shipping included. Pretty good deal eh?

What speakers did you get for that price?

Going out on a limb, I'm guessing the M80s.

I read it as a used pair of M80's for $635. If they are in good to excellent condition that is a great price...

The M80s

That is what I thought, but you mentioned something in your first post about the QS8's and VP150 as well... I was wondering if you got ALL of those for $635- now THAT would have been a bargain

I wish. I did get the VP150 for $200 used and the QS8s for $325 used. I feel pretty good about those prices. After all, they sound brand new

I'm pretty sure you'll be ok with the 92. No, it doesn't use the new ICE amps, but I think the 92's amp section is pretty robust. The 92 is a darn-good AVR.

The new ICE-amped Elites do drive M80's beautifully. I've run my M80's with an SC-05 (last year's model), and the sound just kept getting better the louder I cranked it. A really lovely AVR, that was.

However, there is a grain of truth that some Pioneer Elite's can't drive M80's. My circa-2002 Elite VSX-43TX is an example of this. It's ok at quiet volumes, but anything approaching normal movie levels and the SQ breaks down. Highs get screechy, the bass disappears, and the sound field collapses. It doesn't shut down, but it's pretty clear that the AVR isn't happy at that level.

One of these days, I'm actually going to buy a new AVR. I figure, a decade is a good amount of time to keep an AVR. But until then, my Emotiva LPA-1 amp does the M80-driving, and I'm quite pleased with its performance; it'll go beyond loud and still sound amazing.

Good luck, and welcome to Axiom ownership!

Peter, thanks for the response. I've been driving my 5.1 setup with M60s, VP150, and QS8s for over a year now with no problem. So if the Elite can't handle the M80s I've still got the complete setup to fall back on until I can afford some more power. The SC-05 is rated at 130W x 7 which is the same as the 92 so that gives me some more confidence. The Elite's have an 8 ohm and 6 ohm option but I've always thought (based on what people have told me) to leave it in 8 ohm mode regardless of the actual impedance of the speakers. Any thoughts on this?

Yes, leave it on the 8 ohm setting.

Well they are supposed to get here today. I'll give them a go and let yall known how it goes. I'm pretty nervous about screwing something up. Here's to hoping for the best.

Ok, well I hooked them up and played some 2 channel music (Yoshimi Battles the Pink Robots )through them. The max volume I turned it up to I read about 83 dB on my SPL meter. Didn't hear anything out of the ordinary. I'm going to try some 5.1. I figure that will put a bigger strain on my receiver? Is clipping something that will happen right away or does the strain on the receiver build up over time?

Clipping is basically the result of you requesting more power from the receiver than it is able to deliver. Indeed driving more channels at the same time does increase the power demand, and the likelihood of clipping.

It doesn't build up over time, it happens quickly when a large demand is made. It's possible to only clip during the most energetic peaks of a passage, while the rest is reproduced without distortion.

What can build up over time, is heat. Most receivers also have an automatic thermal protection circuit which will shut it down if played too hard for too long.

Thanks Chris. I'm about to give 5.1 a go. This album has some pretty intense moments.

I actually own all the Flaming Lips DVD-As. Don't bother with At War with the Mystics, it's a bad master that compressed and clipped from the studio.

Yeah, I've got em all too. Mystics never gets played. Soft Bulletin and Yoshimi are just fantastic though.

I just made it through yoshimi pt. 2 with no trouble. I mean, I would definitely know if it was clipping right? I think I've heard clipping before at live shows. Is it almost like a popping noise coming from the speakers?

Clipping can damage speakers before it become audible. I don't know if I'd describe gross clipping as so much as a popping sound, maybe in low frequencies. But it's the tweeters you have to worry about the most. High frequency clipping is just more of a harshness, a fatiguing distortion. Really though, if you're hearing it you've already pushed the system too far.

Hmm. I'm thinking maybe I should hold off playing them anymore until I get a dedicated 2 channel amp. I still have my M60s for a few more months and they sound just fine.

Chances are you will have the receiver overheat and shutdown before you hear any clipping unless the clipped signal came off the cd. Just keep playing on those M80s which are even better/cleaner/clearer sounding at lower volumes than the M60s, IMO.

If you're only playing into the mid-80 dB range, and sitting 10' away, I don't think you have anything to worry about.

I plan on getting M80s and running them from my current receiver which has a slightly lesser amp section than yours. Plus I tend to hit the mid-90s (at 7.5 feet). I have no worries about this receiver.

Go ahead and keep using the M80s. Just use your head. If you're at -3 dB on the volume control, you're probably too loud. But -18 or -15, you've not pushing anything unreasonable.

Thanks for the responses. It just makes me nervous, don't wanna break my new toys

I'd say mid 80s is what I may listen to an album like the flaming lips at. For the most part though, its usually in the 70s. I do however like to crank it up at times.

I bet you could even go into the 90db range for awhile with no problems, but then you have to worry about hearing damage.

Haha. Well the thing that worries me is that the room is pretty large. Basically 14x16 with 10 foot ceilings with half of the left wall opened up the kitchen and a hallway in the rear leading to the bedrooms. I'm assuming the receiver is having to work harder to reach those dBs.

That's actually a pretty small room. Mine's 15 by 20 with 9 foot ceilings. Two door openings on the back and left side.

While it is true that a smaller room will "load up" with sound easier than a large one, and thus sound louder. The primary measurement will be the distance from the speaker to your listening position. Then the over all volume of the listening area comes into play with the reflections of the sound which doesn't reach you directly.

Well I've kept listening to them and I have to say I'm pretty impressed. Definitely a different sound than the M60s. I think my ears are still getting used to it. My brain is still trying to get used to worrying about clipping my speakers, but hopefully that will pass I think I'm gonna need to get an outboard amp to put my fears to rest though. But all in all, they sound pretty fantastic

Glad you are easing into them. And now you know the differences between the M60 and M80s we constantly post about

Well it has been a couple of days now, the M80s sound awesome. However, I still can't shake the feeling in the back of my mind that I may be clipping them without knowing. If I am, is it something that can slowly damage the tweeters and affect the SQ? Or, if I haven't had any problems yet, I shouldn't have anything to worry about? Sorry if I'm coming off as paranoid, if you think I'm worrying over nothing, tell me to shut up

Yeah sarge; if you haven't had any problems yet, you shouldn't have anything to worry about. Relax and enjoy.

Follow your own advice