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Re: EP800 wins an award
BlueJays1 #294020 02/26/10 08:16 PM
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I’m glad I found and started reading Audioholics before ever hearing about Axiom and coming here or I probably would have crossed Axiom off my list. Not only did I find there “recommended systems” helpful in general (understanding they were subjective) but first discovered Axiom speakers in one of them. Can’t remember which $ range (probably have changed by now) but Axiom was suggested in that range if you wanted a better sound based system than the standard recommendations. Had I read these sorts of opinions about Audioholics here and certainly discounted their opinion which was one of the things that helped overcome all the negative comments about Axiom I was reading (with a grain of salt as many were over the top) over at AVS.

All people and all groups of people have biases. The only two ways I know of to deal with that is shut out those whose biases you don’t like and narrow your sources of information or to seek out as many (even if biased) opinions to try and find some semblance of a middle ground. Almost everyone is to short on time, lazy or already to closed-minded to do the latter (that’s a general statement and not pointed at anyone so don’t anyone get their undies in a bundle).

There is a huge wealth of information available at AVS if you can sift through the macho-BS crap of so many of the posters, so I read a lot at AVS despite the BS. I’ve always thought that Audioholics treated Emotiva like it’s little darling so when judging that company I look for other sources to balance the equation. I don’t simply stop reading Audoholics as I find it’s higher degree of focus on internet brands helpful since a lot of other sites tend to prioritize (are biased toward reviewing) B&M brands.

One thing I like about Audioholics is that so many different camps complain about it is an indication they might be getting something right. Many of their articles inject much more “colourful” comments than may be typical of “normal” reviewers but I find this both refreshing and revealing. It makes their reviews more enjoyable to read and lets me know what more about their biases (the way a good historian does in a books forward) so I can read their reviews with their biases in mind. Since everyone is biased I’d rather know those biases up front and adjust for them than to have to “read-between-the-lines” as so many recommend when reading audio equipment reviews to figure out what the reviewer is really trying to tell you.

Also, as the good Doctor has eluded to just because someone is biased doesn’t mean they can‘t have valid criticisms. I happen to think both Al Franken and Rush Limbaugh are A$$s but that doesn’t mean both don’t sometimes express valid opinions about the other side.


Last edited by grunt; 02/26/10 08:48 PM. Reason: more dyslexia

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Re: EP800 wins an award
prototype3a #294021 02/26/10 08:17 PM
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People will always buy XXXXX simply because it's made by XXXXX.

(Okay let's insert Sony, BMW, Dom Perignon) Doesn't mean the product is good/best but it might mean they've had a good track record at one time or another.

It's not problem for Apple, it's every companies dream. Apple happens to execute things well as a whole. Are there exceptions, absolutely but their track record of innovation, creativity, quality and ease of use is exceptional.

FYI: I put Sony in there as many people years ago would buy Sony simply because, but I know that has changed.


HG Cherry M60's,VP150,Qs8's,EP350
Re: EP800 wins an award
BlueJays1 #294022 02/26/10 08:17 PM
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Similarly good marketing departments do not mean similarly bad products. But I'm done here; neither of us is likely to convince the other to change his mind, and more point->counterpoint is simply going to cause anger.


I am the Doctor, and THIS... is my SPOON!
Re: EP800 wins an award
grunt #294023 02/26/10 08:22 PM
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 Quote:
All people and all groups of people have biases. The only two ways I know of to deal with that is shut out those whose biases you don’t like and narrow your sources of information or to seek out as many (even if biased) opinions to try and find some semblance of a middle ground.

Thats what is known as critical thinking, something we seem to have a critical lack of here in North America.

I'm with Dean on this. I suspect there is more bias on the Audioholics site now that they are selling. Its unavoidable. That does not invalidate them as a source of info.


Fred

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Blujays1: Spending Fred's money one bottle at a time, no two... Oh crap!
Re: EP800 wins an award
fredk #294035 02/26/10 08:52 PM
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We are all biased, no question. Audioholics has a wealth of information over there from the technical reviews to their education center in which you can read on setup tips, speaker wire etc...good stuff.

We can all claim biases but in the case of Audioholics, they do stress technical measurements which makes them one of least biased sources out there for 3rd party info relating to this hobby.




I’m armed and I’m drinking. You don’t want to listen to advice from me, amigo.

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Re: EP800 wins an award
Ken.C #294044 02/26/10 09:00 PM
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 Originally Posted By: kcarlile
Similarly good marketing departments do not mean similarly bad products. But I'm done here; neither of us is likely to convince the other to change his mind, and more point->counterpoint is simply going to cause anger.


I won't get angry \:\)


I’m armed and I’m drinking. You don’t want to listen to advice from me, amigo.

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Re: EP800 wins an award
fredk #294054 02/26/10 09:15 PM
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I'm with Dean as usual \:\) -Pavlov's dog syndrome.

Since Apple has been brought up, I thought I would mention a recent phone call I had with a good friend.

He gave me a call a couple weeks ago (I virtually never talk to him on the phone) and I answered the phone and said "hey man what's new", and his reply verbatim was "not much, just calling you from my new iphone".

As mentioned in the past, I can't stand anything Apple because people usually by the products for the image; it's huge. I'm not applying this to you Ken, you're obviously educated and mature, but you are easily the minority.

Sure they make great products, sure it's brilliant advertising on their part and ultimately the end user who buys the product for whatever reason. It just drives me nuts when I hear stuff like this.


The only reasonable argument for owning a gun is to protect yourself from the police.
Re: EP800 wins an award
Ya_basta #294077 02/26/10 10:06 PM
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I never knew people felt about Apple the way so many people feel about Bose. Must be because I've never researched that kind of stuff (the only thing by Apple I own is an Ipod). I suppose I never knew about the feeling many have toward Bose until I started learning about home theater and visiting helpful sites such as the Axiom site.

With regard to the original discussion, it really should be beyond debate that, unless it is 100 percent clear, marketing materials should not be used or quoted in an article or review without making that clear. Here, I think the audioholics site dropped the ball on that front. Perhaps many people would have known that is what was happening, but I think many of us trying to research and learn about different products would not necessarily have realized that. Even someone who was being thorough and read the criteria for judging may not have understood that they were reading marketing materials:

"Each product submission will be carefully examined by four members of the Audioholics staff who will individually select three top products from each subcategory, ranked from 1-3. These selections will then be compared publicly to arrive at a consensus on the award-winning products. Criteria for winning submissions include:

Advanced audio and video technologies pushing the CE market - product and technology innovation
Uniqueness in CE market
Time or money-saving features, including ease of use
Value for end-user and/or custom installer"

One can reasonably assume that evaluating "time or money-saving features" and "value for end-user" requires some testing of the equipment beyond reading marketing materials. It is one thing if I am on a site to buy the item--I expect marketing material. That was not the case here. In my view, this bordered on plagiarism.

Re: EP800 wins an award
RayLewis #294095 02/26/10 10:57 PM
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grunt Offline OP
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 Originally Posted By: RayLewis

I never knew people felt about Apple the way so many people feel about Bose. Must be because I've never researched that kind of stuff (the only thing by Apple I own is an Ipod). I suppose I never knew about the feeling many have toward Bose until I started learning about home theater and visiting helpful sites such as the Axiom site.


While your observation about Bose is correct I would offer some context. IMO Bose it the Omega Wolf of the audio community. It’s the one everyone else can pick on to feel good about themselves while avoiding fighting with each other while posturing for dominance.

Bose serves a portion of the market that just wants something that works simply out of the box and sounds good to them w/o caring what a bunch of self proclaimed “audiophiles” like say us ;\) might think of them.

Sure Bose isn’t high fidelity but that doesn’t mean it’s won’t sound good to people w/o an “untrained” ear. I bring this up because even Axiom has to “train” it’s listening testers on what to listen for when evaluating and comparing it’s speakers because most people seem to prefer rolled off highs and a slightly elevated midrange. So to the untrained ear Bose may sound just fine especially considering most people buy them aren’t likely going to the lengths of most internet audio forum junkies in setting up their systems, but would rather have something that integrates better into say an existing living room.

My problem with apple has always been it’s proprietary nature. When shopping for my first pre-built computer apple was the “best.” Since I wanted it for word processing (so I could spell check papers) and playing games the PC won easily because it had 50 games I wanted to play vs apple’s 5. Since then I’ve never been in the market for one of their products though I must get off my luddite butt and get a portable player eventually. Hopefully there previous proprietary nature has waned to put them back in the running.


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Re: EP800 wins an award
grunt #294101 02/26/10 11:28 PM
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Thanks Grunt. That is interesting. Your comment that Bose is "the one everyone else can pick on to feel good about themselves while avoiding fighting with each other while posturing for dominance" made me laugh, as it seems to be very true.

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