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#296408 - 03/13/10 01:14 PM Re: Outlaw Model 997 cancelled [Re: chesseroo]
Micah Offline
connoisseur

Registered: 11/16/08
Posts: 1789
Loc: Indiana you hoser!!!!
Yes indeed I'm not alone, this is driving everyone else just as mad as it is me!

The other day in another thread Ray Lewis asked me to see if I could find an interview with Bill Gates that I'd referenced. While I failed to find what I was looking for, I did stumble upon an interview where he was talking about an 'All-In-One' set top box that was your DVR, DVD/BR, cable provider, surround sound management... EVERYTHING box. And while I've heard others like Grunt (I think) mentioning turning computers into HT units, it never really interested me at all, until I read that article.

Then just the other day I had rented a movie from our local video store, and when I got it home my DVD player wouldn't play it. I took it out & cleaned it as good as I could, kept trying it, with no luck. I wanted to watch it so badly that as a last ditch effort I threw it into the DVD/CD-ROM on the computer (which is hooked up to my big screen LCD) and tried playing it on there... it played without a hitch!?! And I must say without doing any critical listening of viewing experiments on it, the soundtrack (Enemy of the State) sounded awesome, and the DVD picture was every bit as clean as my DVD player sends it to my TV!

And that got me to thinking, instead of looking for the perfect Blu-Ray player, should I just be looking to buy a Blu-Ray drive for the computer and be done with it? After all I have an HDMI video card installed on my computer, so it sends the picture out at up to 1080p, and while my computer doesn't decode the newest audio formats, I could send it PCM to the reciever to decode through the HDMI connection. So what's stopping me?

And then it really occured to me, when these recievers come out and are outdated within a year or two, computers are customizable. That's a huge plus. For instance if my Denon 4802 was built more like a computer, when HDMI 1.1, then 1.2, then 1.3 & now 1.4 came out, I could have just bought a new audio/video board with those connections built into it, slid it in place, and voila, no need for another $1500 dollar reciever!

Ok so now I'm seeing the light. The only down side is, the Blu-Ray drive for my computer wouldn't have a scaler chip to upgrade regular DVD's to 1080p will it? Is there hardware/software that will scale regular DVD's the same as the Oppo and other Blu-Ray players?

Heck if I could find the right hardware/software to distribute up to 9.2 discrete channels from my computer with the new PLII'z, and a few other modes that I use, then I'd toss my reciever altogether and just run the connections straight from my computer to my amps (I'd have to get a few more since all I have right now is the 3 channel Emotiva).

The more I think about it the more it makes sense. When something new comes out, I buy an upgraded audio &/or video card for a few hundred bucks tops (my HDMI audio/video card set me back a whopping $75 bucks), instead of having to plunk down upwards of $1000 bucks on a new reciever that I know will be outdated in a few years time. Need HDMI 1.4? Upgrade the audio video card. Need a 3D Blu-Ray player? Throw in a 3D Blu-Ray ROM into your computer instead of waiting for prices on the new 3D Blu-Ray players to come down from $1500 down to something I can afford. And it's all custom, I don't have to spend money on any bells I don't want/need, but can pick up the one's I do want without having to pay for all those other one's at the same time.

At the very least these new possibilities should have the audio/video manufacturers rethinking their products. Now that technology is moving so fast, why aren't they making recievers with upgradeable audio/video cards so that the entire unit isn't just a disposable commodity when the consumer wants to upgrade to the newest technology? There's no reason I shouldn't be able to at the very least send my 4802 back to Denon & have a new board installed in it with the connections I want at a fraction of the cost of a new reciever.

Where's our man Tucker? Why if he were around today he'd make a reciever with upgradeable components on it & steal away EVERYONE's business! The first company who does offer this would clean house in my opinion. They'd also get many death threats from the other company's who're still trying to wring every last cent out of the consumer as they can... But the other guys would soon have to offer the same options or go out of business completely I would think.

In this day and age, that sort of capability should be expected, not neglected.
_________________________
My Stuff :

M80's
QS8's
VP150
EP800
Denon 4802
Emotiva XPA-3
Samsung BD-P3600
Sharp 65 Inch Aquos LCD

Top
#296410 - 03/13/10 01:22 PM Re: Outlaw Model 997 cancelled [Re: Micah]
Glitchy Offline
aficionado

Registered: 01/28/10
Posts: 578
Loc: Blueridge Foothills, NC
 Originally Posted By: Micah
Yes indeed I'm not alone, this is driving everyone else just as mad as it is me!

The other day in another thread Ray Lewis asked me to see if I could find an interview with Bill Gates that I'd referenced. While I failed to find what I was looking for, I did stumble upon an interview where he was talking about an 'All-In-One' set top box that was your DVR, DVD/BR, cable provider, surround sound management... EVERYTHING box. And while I've heard others like Grunt (I think) mentioning turning computers into HT units, it never really interested me at all, until I read that article.

Then just the other day I had rented a movie from our local video store, and when I got it home my DVD player wouldn't play it. I took it out & cleaned it as good as I could, kept trying it, with no luck. I wanted to watch it so badly that as a last ditch effort I threw it into the CD-ROM on the computer (which is hooked up to my big screen LCD) and tried playing it on there... it played without a hitch!?! And I must say without doing any critical listening experiments on it, the soundtrack (Enemy of the State) sounded awesome!

And that got me to thinking, instead of looking for the perfect Blu-Ray player, should I just be looking to buy a Blu-Ray drive for the computer and be done with it? After all I have an HDMI video card installed on my computer, so it sends the picture out at up to 1080p, and while my computer doesn't decode the newest audio formats, I could send it PCM to the reciever to decode through the HDMI connection. So what's stopping me?

And then it really occured to me, when these recievers come out and are outdated within a year or two, computers are customizable. That's a huge plus. For instance if my Denon 4802 was built more like a computer, when HDMI 1.1, then 1.2, then 1.3 & now 1.4 came out, I could have just bought a new audio/video board with those connections built into it, slid it in place, and voila, no need for another $1500 dollar reciever!

Ok so now I'm seeing the light. The only down side is, the Blu-Ray drive for my computer won't have a scaler ship for regular DVD's will it? Is there hardware/software that will scale regular DVD's the same as the Oppo and other Blu-Ray players?

Heck if I could find the right hardware/software to distribute up to 9.2 discrete channels from my computer with the new PLII'z, and a few other modes that I use, then I'd toss my reciever altogether and just run the connections straight from my computer to my amps (I'd have to get a few more since all I have right now is the 3 channel Emotiva).

The more I think about it the more it makes sense. When something new comes out, I buy an upgraded audio &/or video card for a few hundred bucks tops (my HDMI audio/video card set me back a whopping $75 bucks), instead of having to plunk down upwards of $1000 bucks on a new reciever that I know will be outdated in a few years time. Need HDMI 1.4? Upgrade the audio video card. Need a 3D Blu-Ray player? Throw in a 3D Blu-Ray ROM into your computer instead of waiting for prices on the new 3D Blu-Ray players to come down from $1500 down to something I can afford. And it's all custom, I don't have to spend money on any bells I don't want/need, but can pick up the one's I do want without having to pay for all those other one's at the same time.

At the very least these new possibilities should have the audio/video manufacturers rethinking their products. Now that technology is moving so fast, why aren't they making recievers with upgradeable audio/video cards so that the entire unit isn't just a disposable commodity when the consumer wants to upgrade to the newest technology? There's no reason I shouldn't be able to at the very least send my 4802 back to Denon & have a new board installed in it with the connections I want at a fraction of the cost of a new reciever.

Where's our man Tucker? Why if he were around today he'd make a reciever with upgradeable components on it & steal away EVERYONE's business! The first company who does offer this would clean house in my opinion. They'd also get many death threats from the other company's who're still trying to wring every last cent out of the consumer as they can... But the other guys would soon have to offer the same options or go out of business completely I would think.

In this day and age, that sort of capability should be expected, not neglected.


This is the new shampoo for HTPCs

Windows 7 Media Center, Core "i" CPU for bitstreaming, TMT3 BluRay & upscaling DVD software with bitstreaming, MyMovies for Collection management

http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?p=18304793&posted=1#post18304793

http://www.mymovies.dk/products.aspx

http://www.arcsoft.com/en-us/index.asp

http://www.slysoft.com/en/anydvdhd.html

And the new Ceton Cablecard Tuner for HTPCs (coming soon)

http://thegreenbutton.com/forums/p/78488/438649.aspx#438649

And a WHS & AnyDVDHD for media storage with automated metadata

http://www.mymovies.dk/products/collection-management/online-collection.aspx

Lots of homework for you!


Edited by wordgasm (03/13/10 01:36 PM)
_________________________
Fronts/Wides:M22s in/on
Center:VP150/VP100 in/on
Hghts,SS,SR:QS8s
Sub:EP500
AVR:Onkyo 3008

Top
#296412 - 03/13/10 01:35 PM Re: Outlaw Model 997 cancelled [Re: Glitchy]
Micah Offline
connoisseur

Registered: 11/16/08
Posts: 1789
Loc: Indiana you hoser!!!!
I LOVE this kind of homework though!

Heck I'd already been eyeballing at least $1500 dollars worth of AV equipment (new reciever, Blu-Ray player), so if I could get all the stuff you listed for that much or less, then I'm WAY ahead of the curve. Because I'll have something I can upgrade incrimentally instead of hardware I'll have to throw away in a few years time.

Excellent, thanks for the info! Oh and Grunt, if that was you touting the bennefits of computer HT consoles, I'm sorry I didn't listen earlier... but my ears/eyes are WIDE open now!
_________________________
My Stuff :

M80's
QS8's
VP150
EP800
Denon 4802
Emotiva XPA-3
Samsung BD-P3600
Sharp 65 Inch Aquos LCD

Top
#296414 - 03/13/10 01:37 PM Re: Outlaw Model 997 cancelled [Re: Micah]
Glitchy Offline
aficionado

Registered: 01/28/10
Posts: 578
Loc: Blueridge Foothills, NC
 Originally Posted By: Micah
I LOVE this kind of homework though!

Heck I'd already been eyeballing at least $1500 dollars worth of AV equipment (new reciever, Blu-Ray player), so if I could get all the stuff you listed for that much or less, then I'm WAY ahead of the curve. Because I'll have something I can upgrade incrimentally instead of hardware I'll have to throw away in a few years time.

Excellent, thanks for the info! Oh and Grunt, if that was you touting the bennefits of computer HT consoles, I'm sorry I didn't listen earlier... but my ears/eyes are WIDE open now!


Added a few more links and changed a couple for you. I've spent years on this stuff. If you have any questions or want to talk any of it out, just PM me


Edited by wordgasm (03/13/10 01:48 PM)
_________________________
Fronts/Wides:M22s in/on
Center:VP150/VP100 in/on
Hghts,SS,SR:QS8s
Sub:EP500
AVR:Onkyo 3008

Top
#296418 - 03/13/10 02:01 PM Re: Outlaw Model 997 cancelled [Re: Glitchy]
Micah Offline
connoisseur

Registered: 11/16/08
Posts: 1789
Loc: Indiana you hoser!!!!
So have you just researched it so far? Or do you have this system?

I do have Windows 7 Ultimate on my computer, how much is the media center upgrade?
_________________________
My Stuff :

M80's
QS8's
VP150
EP800
Denon 4802
Emotiva XPA-3
Samsung BD-P3600
Sharp 65 Inch Aquos LCD

Top
#296421 - 03/13/10 02:13 PM Re: Outlaw Model 997 cancelled [Re: MarkSJohnson]
fredk Offline
axiomite

Registered: 12/06/07
Posts: 7786
Loc: Canada
 Originally Posted By: MarkSJohnson

I told myself that I might make it a point to buy a non-3-D-capable TV when the prices drop, 'cuz I don't need no stinkin' 3-D gimmick...

But yesterday, at a pro video trade show, JVC was showing a U2 concert in 3D on a moderate screen....probably 46".... and it was freakin' awesome! Not gimmicky at all, ...

Um, didn't they tell you? This new 3D stuff doesn't work in square rooms...
_________________________
Fred

-------
Blujays1: Spending Fred's money one bottle at a time, no two... Oh crap!

Top
#296423 - 03/13/10 02:16 PM Re: Outlaw Model 997 cancelled [Re: Micah]
Glitchy Offline
aficionado

Registered: 01/28/10
Posts: 578
Loc: Blueridge Foothills, NC
 Originally Posted By: Micah
So have you just researched it so far? Or do you have this system?

I do have Windows 7 Ultimate on my computer, how much is the media center upgrade?


I have everything listed in my post and in the links (and much much more!). Well xcept the ceton tuner not out yet.

I am happily bitstreaming blurays from my WHS, to my Core I HTPC to AVR to Axioms at will.

Windows Media Center came as part of your W7 ult, in the default program popup menu

My Gear list (from another post in another forum)

HTPC: iCore 5 650, 8 gig memory, Asus H55-M EVO Pro, Win 7 64, intel 40 gb SSD, 1.5 TB WD Green "TV" drive, waiting on the ceton tuner, HDHomerun networked tuner, Dvico USB tuner

The case, Norco 10 bay hot swap drives rack mounted, SSD for OS, 2 drive bays for recorded TV, other 8 drives will be connected to my WHS by SAS connectors, cards and cables. (Haven't bought these 8 drives yet).

Software: W7, TMT3 platinum, AnyDVD HD, and a couple of WMC add-ins

WHS: Gigabyte board, dual core AMD, 4 gb, 500 GB OS drive and 500 gb bckup drive, 6 1.5 TB WD Green Drives, in a Norco 2u rack mount 8 bay hot swap case. All Music, DVDs, Bluerays, photos and data stored on Server with metadata

AVR: Onkyo TX-SR706 Rack mounted with MA faceplate

Gaming: Xbox 360, to be rack mounted no shelf and custom faceplate yet

Whole House Audio: Squeezebox Duet wifi controller and receiver,
Sherwood Amp 4 zome and Onkyo M282? PRO to 5 Zones

Rack: 24 port gigabite switch, a ups forget the specs. Voltage
regulator someday, MA temp gauge, Media dock, MA iDock (cable STB's going away after ceton.)

Speakers: Axiom: Mains-W22s, Center(s) W150/W100, Surrounds QS8s & QS4s, SW-EP500 & a JBL 10" older than ....

Display: Samsung LN52A850S

Bedroom Display: Syntax 32" (and I have the parts to build a rack mounted HTPC for this location, but not complete.

Control: Harmony 1100, Harmony 900, SqueezeBox Duet, Hot link and old HArmony IR for the bedroom and hopefully Droid if someone ever writes the software.

Some other stuff!

Wants: Whole house automation, and finish rack


Did this quick, will update and provide exact specs and complete list.




Edited by wordgasm (03/13/10 02:40 PM)
_________________________
Fronts/Wides:M22s in/on
Center:VP150/VP100 in/on
Hghts,SS,SR:QS8s
Sub:EP500
AVR:Onkyo 3008

Top
#296428 - 03/13/10 04:22 PM Re: Outlaw Model 997 cancelled [Re: fredk]
EFalardeau Offline
connoisseur

Registered: 08/27/07
Posts: 3400
Loc: Laval, Quebec, Canada
And 3D is obsolete. Most US and Canadian cell operators are already offering 3G and more...
_________________________
E = MC2 = ((2M80 + VP180 + 4QS8)/(EP800 + EP500))^(ADA1500 x D2v)
AxiomAir/6xM2/4xM22/2xVP150/2xM3

Top
#296429 - 03/13/10 04:49 PM Re: Outlaw Model 997 cancelled [Re: EFalardeau]
Glitchy Offline
aficionado

Registered: 01/28/10
Posts: 578
Loc: Blueridge Foothills, NC
 Originally Posted By: EFalardeau
And 3D is obsolete. Most US and Canadian cell operators are already offering 3G and more...


3H is a holodeck isn't it?
_________________________
Fronts/Wides:M22s in/on
Center:VP150/VP100 in/on
Hghts,SS,SR:QS8s
Sub:EP500
AVR:Onkyo 3008

Top
#296431 - 03/13/10 05:02 PM Re: Outlaw Model 997 cancelled [Re: EFalardeau]
Micah Offline
connoisseur

Registered: 11/16/08
Posts: 1789
Loc: Indiana you hoser!!!!
 Originally Posted By: EFalardeau
And 3D is obsolete. Most US and Canadian cell operators are already offering 3G and more...


You are sooooo right!


Lol
_________________________
My Stuff :

M80's
QS8's
VP150
EP800
Denon 4802
Emotiva XPA-3
Samsung BD-P3600
Sharp 65 Inch Aquos LCD

Top
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