Axiom Home Page Forums General Discussion Stereo BookShelf Speaker choice

I have a Yamaha RX-V520 A/V receiver with a SpeakerCraft 6.1 LCR center speaker, a KLH subwoofer and Polk Audio R15 speakers for the front and really cheap KLH 911 speakers for the rear. Obviously this is a budget system, but I would like to upgrade my front speakers and move the Polk Audio's to the rear. I need to keep the cost under $300 for the pair, so I was looking at the M2i speakers. Do you think this would be a wise choice? With this setup, will I really be able to hear a substantial improvement? (We mainly use this system for watching DVD's, but occasionally I like to listen to music CDs (Mannheim Steamroller, Jazz, soft rock, etc) and I like to "crank it up" when the family is gone). Thanks for your input!

You'll hear an improvement without a doubt, but how big is your room you'll have these in?

The room is 16 x 20. Not ideal placement though, our entertainment center is in one corner (subwoofer is behind the cabinet). The four speakers are in each corner and the center channel is on top of the TV. (I am pretty much a novice when it comes to all of this equipment, but I just want to get the best sound I can for my money and I saw some excellent reviews on Axiom speakers. I have never actually seen or heard them anywhere).

Thanks again!

For your budget, the M2tis are a perfect match.

M2s appear to be a good fit, but having been in your position, I'd just say be sure to think long-term. What do you want to own in 1, 2, and 5 years? If you surf around here (and re-read some of spiffnme's posts about purchasing advice) you'll see a common theme: Beware of underbuying, which can lead to speaker-envy and costly readjustments down the road. To an extent that's the situation you're in now (a place all of us have been, so no shame in that!!!!!): You've underinvested in some equipment you want to move up from.

With this is mind, consider carefully the immediate and future uses of the new mains you want. If you think they might one day end up in the bedroom or an auxiliary room as stand-alone music mains, then the M3s might be the best choice. M2s could also serve that purpose, but the consensus of reviewers and forum members is that M3s are often a better standalone music speaker in the small, sub-$300 range because they create a fuller sound. If you want to gradually move up to an upgraded HT (new sub, center, and MAYBE surrounds, though your use of old speakers is to be commended here), then you may want to hold off until you can spend $400 and go with the M22s.

If you're seriously looking at the M2s, then I'd suggest you save some sheckles until you can get the M22s, unless you foresee now an auxiliary future use for the M2s. Otherwise you may just end up with too many small speakers. Given your budget and aims (which I can relate to), you might find that the extra $145 for the M22s save you money in the long run, since they'll prevent you from wanting to upgrade your mains for an indefinite time period. (Heretical I know, but one other well-priced set of mains to consider are the Ascend Acoustics CBM-170 -- lke Axiom only available online, highly accurate, aggressively priced, and well loved by hifi reviewers.)

Final thought -- M22s, or M3s, will probably give you more pleasing music listening, given that your Polk sub may not be something you want to use too much for music. So to the extent that music will be on the system, the M22s and M3s are again worth considering over the M2s. If you were going to build a complete HT with 5 identical speakers (or 4 identical and a new center), then all M2s with a VP-100 OR a 5th M2 as a center would be a great option.

The M2s, incidentally, appear to be outstanding speakers, so I'm not knocking them, and I've never had a chance to hear them either. I just know that in my similar situation, I would not buy them as mains unless I foresaw another use for them, which in my case would be as future surrounds coupled with some M22s or M60s (which I presently own and love). If I foresaw coupling M2s with M22s as surrounds/mains, then why not save up and get the better speaker first?

My two cents.

Birdman

Thank you so much for your detailed reply. It certainly gives me a lot to think about. I would have to say though that I am probably stuck with most of my system as is for quite awhile (the wife just isn't too interested in this stuff!). Since space is a big concern (I had to get rid of my old Bose 501 speakers long ago because they were too big), I don't think the M22's are an option for me. But I am seriously considering moving up to the M3ti's based on what you say about just using them to listen to music (which I do occasionally like to do).

One more thing - I have been reading about "break in" periods on these speakers on some of the review sites. What does a person need to do to "break in" these speakers?

Thanks again for all of your advice and help.

I recently bought some m3's for my pool table room, and I'm very glad I did. I can't believe how "big" the speakers sound compared to their size. I would suggest checking the factory outlet, I got mine for 255.

Yes, there is absolutely no reason not to buy all your Axiom speakers from the outlet. They're 99.9% perfect, and you'll save some dough. Do a search on the boards for outlet threads, and you'll see that 100% of factory outlet buyers have been 110% happy they went the outlet route.

I just received a new pair of m3ti and a vp100. quick setup last night, late, running them with a h/k avr220 and a sony ps-2 dvd. no other speakers of any kind. had to mount m3's on top of my bookshelf (6ft high) with the vp100 at same level and centered about 4ft from each m3 and all about 2ft above the tv. a quick setup with the receiver and off i went. here are my first impressions:
1.my receiver must suck
2.vp100 sounded...nice. but uninspired and kinda "dull." i was, however, pretty amazed at being able to hear so many things i had previously missed w/o a center.
3.m3ti's also sounded "dull" and i had to turn up the volume to really hear much of anything.
now all that said, i must admit that:
1.my room sucks; high vaulted ceilings, tile floors, glass sliding doors, many openings to other rooms etc. room size is app 12x20 with 8 to 14ft high ceiling.
2.i know next to nothing about home audio
3.i haven't yet placed speakers properly which i will do this weekend.
4.ps-2 is not ideal to play dvd's and cds
5. the only music i tried was the stuff from the Direct TV.

this weekend i will change speaker positions and speaker cable. i'll also hook up a loaner sub, and run the speakers with a great old sony tube amp. (music only)

conclusion: i'll wait and see how much difference speaker placement makes, but right now i'm a little disappointed and will wait to see about the "break-in" period. i may just have to take everyone's advice and spend the extra dough for the m22's but that'll mean an epic battle with the wife - she (me too to some extent) doesn't want to see the speaker and doesn't want to spend "too much" money.

rodelco,
at the risk of starting a war here, I'll respond to your speaker break-in comment. Most people on this forum would agree that there is no such thing as speaker break-in. It is ear break-in that makes the speakers sound different.

Axioms are definitely more susceptible to this phenomenom than most other brands because they are extremely detailed. A lot of other brands actually mask/reduce the mid/high frequencies which a good chunk of the population prefers. That creates a non-linear or inaccurate speaker.

These same listeners that are used to hearing inaccurate speakers believe Axioms are bright because of all the extra sound they hear. But to Axiom listeners that's not brightness it's called DETAIL. It will take the listener some time to get accustomed to hearing the extra detail in recordings, but in time it will sound good - ear break-in, not speaker break-in.

I hope that helps a bit.

If your speakers are 6' high, and you're sitting while listening, all the sound is going right over your head (ears).

There are numerous things "wrong" with your setup, but that seems to stand out as the biggest one right now. You want to get those tweeters at ear level (while seated in your listening position) or as close as possible.

Yes, using a PS2 as your DVD/CD player could be improved upon.

What receiver are you using? This can make a difference, but even a really cheap old receiver shouldn't make everything sound dull. (Especially Axioms)

Finally, speaker break-in isn't going to change anything. Ian himself (Axioms designer) has been quoted as saying that after a couple hours, any "break-in" will be done. It is indeed usually your ears (mind) getting used to a new sound.

Try moving the speakers into a better position, and I think you'll be very happily surprised.

Good luck, and please let us know how it turns out.

I'm going to agree with sid about breakin; although I do recall some post where Ian said that there really was some amount of breakin, but only up to about 40 minutes of use. Beyond that, it is YOU changing, not the speaker.

Bub, I just think that is a really big room for those speakers, especially without a sub. And your placement sounds really problematic. Did you see how it sounds if you stand on a ladder? I don't think your receiver is the problem; HK makes good products.

Try fiddling with speaker placement - a lot. Don't put them inside an entertainment center if at all possible. Get them down so that they are firing level with listening position.

Based on the description you give, I can't help but think that the listening environment (especially the speaker placement) is a bigger problem than the electronics.

Bub, it sounds like you have alot going on there. I can offer a couple of suggestions or point out some issues as i'm sure some others will as well.

1) Your speakers are situated rather high above the average height of your ears when seated in a couch. There will be a definite 'dull' sound if the tweeters are firing too high above your ears. See if you can't put them on some chairs with some books underneath just for experimentation purposes.
Try the different heights with the M3s and see what this does to the sound. Same thing goes for the centre vp100, but you could also try to wedge a magazine or two underneath its backside atop your TV to get it angled downward more to your ear/head area.

2) Yes, the room acoustics make a huge difference. Yours is not overly large but the vaulted ceilings would probably tend to take some volume away from the overall sound. Setting up a nice little 12x12 area where your HT is located might help to 'contain' the sound somewhat. Ultimately if the room volume is just too much and you feel the sound is still too weak even when 'cranked up', you may have to move to a larger speaker. Again this is dependant on your expectation of how much you want this system to completely fill that room with sound.

3) I definitely recommend a dvd or cd player (other than a ps2) as your source for testing out all the sound. The quality should be far superior to that of the Direct TV (depending on the source) but it will also be most consistent in what you can listen to for repeated sound tests.

In reply to:

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What does a person need to do to "break in" these speakers?

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The first thing to do is to ignore the posts about long "break in". Then after you get your speakers properly placed, turn on the music, sit back, relax, and let your mind go free.

thanks again all. and i know it was just a quick midnight "hurry up get 'em firing" situation with horrible placement etc., and i hope that was clear on my post.
i did shim the speakers to face towards my seating position.
i'm looking forward to playing with them this weekend, but i'm seriously considering, as suggested by many of the listers, stepping up to the m22's and investing in a quality sub, though it will inevitably just lead, i think, to more headaches trying to find a good spot in my challenging room.
...not to mention convincing the wife into spending more $ and getting larger speakers.

I'll update.

If you are successful in convincing your wife to divert more money towards audio, please share your methods!

deal.

Oh, god yes ple---oh wait. My wife just said that she'd put in money towards my speaker purchase! I love her. :-)

how does one make a gagging emoticon?

8-# ?

You're just jealous.

Of course, I'll have to remember that one so I can use it on some of your posts.

How about this one? X-P

That one's better.

Of course, I have to remember that my wife gave the Axioms and SVS the green light. Wha'a swee'art!

M3ti/VP100 Update:

brought the m3's down from 6ft and used their box (and the vp box) as temp. stands (can anyone recommend stands?). It was again late, so i left the vp at 6ft (maybe 2ft above tv). i installed my dad's m/k sub (model v-b2 i think) and powered up with Daredevil in the PS2...
i'm, well, er...speechless. i'll update when i get the surrounds but i'm keeping my dad's sub, i've never experienced sound/music like i did through the m3's. ridiculously good!!!

more updates from a rookie later...