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#301818 - 04/14/10 12:00 AM The EP500 faired alright in Tom Nousaine's list...
Micah Offline
connoisseur

Registered: 11/16/08
Posts: 1789
Loc: Indiana you hoser!!!!
Clicky

61st out of 250 aint too shabby. Would like to see the list updated with an EP600 and EP800 tested. There are some familiar names up there, but also some missing that I would have liked to have seen, like eD for example.

The list proves nothing as far as sound quality goes, but it does at least paint a fairly reliable picture of what subs will really rock the windows. Which is all the information a lot of people want to know about subwoofers anyway. Therefore I found the list quite interesting.
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#301821 - 04/14/10 12:11 AM Re: The EP500 faired alright in Tom Nousaine's list... [Re: Micah]
tomtuttle Offline
axiomite

Registered: 06/20/03
Posts: 8488
Loc: Tacoma
That looks like "data" or maybe even "statistics" rather than "analysis" or "rankings" to me.
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#301823 - 04/14/10 12:18 AM Re: The EP500 faired alright in Tom Nousaine's list... [Re: tomtuttle]
Micah Offline
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Registered: 11/16/08
Posts: 1789
Loc: Indiana you hoser!!!!
Yeah, purely SPL data.
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My Stuff :

M80's
QS8's
VP150
EP800
Denon 4802
Emotiva XPA-3
Samsung BD-P3600
Sharp 65 Inch Aquos LCD

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#301830 - 04/14/10 01:11 AM Re: The EP500 faired alright in Tom Nousaine's list... [Re: Micah]
Potatohead Offline
aficionado

Registered: 05/14/09
Posts: 670
Loc: Vancouver
PB12-NSD is 46th, for 30% or so less. You can even have any color you want, as long as it's black :).

EDIT: Looks like that thing is 2 years old, too... But it's interesting nonetheless.




Edited by Potatohead (04/14/10 01:14 AM)

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#301833 - 04/14/10 03:22 AM Re: The EP500 faired alright in Tom Nousaine's list... [Re: Potatohead]
grunt Offline
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Registered: 12/04/06
Posts: 3569
Loc: Nirvana
 Quote:

All figures are for a corner loaded subwoofer, measured at a 2 meters using 10% thd limits in a large 7500 cu-ft room. The SPL numbers have been averaged from the maximum output(with a 10% thd limit) using 25,32,40,50,62hz steps in testing(the 25-62hz range is considered the bass intensive film


Interesting chart and clearly useful if looking for what will flat out make the loudest sound under real world conditions. It would be nice to also see FR plots to see what effect combining the subs inherent FR with corner loading does to it.

I havenít played very much with subwoofers but from what little I have done with my single EP500 Iím convinced that the real deep base is better produced by a tactile transducer than corner loading my sub. Asking a 10, 12, 15, 18 inch driver to generate large SPLs at 20Hz w/o overpowering the higher bass frequencies is IMO not easy. Iíd rather use the best ďdriverĒ for the frequencies I want produced in this case.
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#301898 - 04/14/10 12:49 PM Re: The EP500 faired alright in Tom Nousaine's list... [Re: grunt]
tomtuttle Offline
axiomite

Registered: 06/20/03
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Loc: Tacoma
Excellent point, Dean.

What kind of amplifier are you using on the buttkickers? How do you go about "calibrating" them relative to the rest of the system?
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#301913 - 04/14/10 02:19 PM Re: The EP500 faired alright in Tom Nousaine's list... [Re: tomtuttle]
grunt Offline
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Registered: 12/04/06
Posts: 3569
Loc: Nirvana
I use the BKA 1000-N:

http://www.thebuttkicker.com/home_theater/products/bka1000-n.htm

I calibrate it actively using the volume and the variable high cutoff which I usually set for 40Hz, the lowest setting, but which I have occasionally bumped up for some movies which youíd expect to have deep bass that really isnít. I then adjust the volume knob to get the right amount of rumble by putting in one or more movies I use a benchmarks (LOTR FOTR Mines of Moria, or the opening of Star Wars III). Each of those have deep bass that I know when it feels right and proves good for almost all movies.

Having .2 a second adjustable LFE out on my Onkyo makes setting and adjusting the volume much easier if Iím alone since I can set it while in the seat rather than having to get up and adjust it at the amp and then sit down to test it again. It also makes it so I can change the EP500s SPL w/o screwing up the Buttkickerís calibration.

On the occasions where the low bass Iíd expect isnít there then I bump up the crossover point, which is mostly trial and error. Only problem with putting the crossover to high is more of the musical bass can start bleeding over. The bleed over of the >40Hz music is fine as it actually enhances scenes, however bump it up to high and itís just too much IMO.

I also passively calibrate it two ways. First is by using as rigid a mount as possible. I found attaching it directly to my furniture, not the mounting plate it sits on but bolting it to the furniture frame makes calibrating it harder because itís actually to sensitive to volume tweaking making it easy to over or under shoot best volume. Also mounting it more rigidly dampens out resonance caused when directly attached to the furniture. For a single piece of furniture the mounting plate that comes with the kit works perfect. However, for multiple separate chairs Iíve found that just mounting the Buttkicker to a 2x4 and setting the back legs of my chairs on that serves the same purpose. The one standard transducer is more than enough to shake 4 chairs this way though Iíve only got 3 big ones. I imagine one transducer could easily shake a riser built to hold 6-8 chairs.

The other way I passively calibrate it is to cross over my M80 at 40-50Hz. This minimizes bleed over of musical bass into the LFE channel. Actually this is seldom a factor since it only reaches the Buttkicker if I turn the BK ampís variable high cutoff above 40Hz.

The BK amp also has an on/off switch for the variable high cutoff so I can disengage it w/o changing the setting and it also has a fixed, on/off 25Hz low cutoff which Iíve never used.

AFAIK any amp can be used to drive one however due to itís size I imagine it would need to have some power. From what Iíve read there are other transducer brands that are more easily driven by less powerful amps. However, most if not all of these (at least a few years ago when I was researching) were at the whim of the receiverís crossover so if it was set as many do at 80Hz you got everything up to that point directed at your butt.

I was worried about what adding another crossover would do but I find that at the below 40-50Hz range there is no problem integrating the BK with the EP500 or I imagine any other subwoofer.

Not to make it sound like the BK doesnít do higher frequencies well I actually got it about 2 months before my Axioms. So the BK was my subwoofer in my apartment running off the analogue out from my Oppo. It did an excellent job though it lacked any of the chest punch usually associated with a sub or full range mains. But I could crank it up w/o pissing off any neighbors. That is actually my most highly recommended use for the BK is someone who wants a true HT feel in an apartment, townhouse or even a bedroom w/o bothering the rest of the family. A BK running off the Oppo analogue out paired with my Sennheiser HD600s is quite a combo.



Finally, my amp started blowing fuses the first year. I called up ďThe Guitammer CompanyĒ and they shipped me a new one UPS with a return mailer for the old one no cost to me. Second one has worked fine for 3 years now.





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#301921 - 04/14/10 02:50 PM Re: The EP500 faired alright in Tom Nousaine's list... [Re: grunt]
tomtuttle Offline
axiomite

Registered: 06/20/03
Posts: 8488
Loc: Tacoma
Wow - great info. Thank you very much, Dean.

I'm currently only running one channel of my BFD to one sub, so I might be able to leverage that piece to do the crossover/equalization part. Obviously, I'd still need some amplification.

Hmmmmm.
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#301976 - 04/15/10 01:10 AM Re: The EP500 faired alright in Tom Nousaine's list... [Re: grunt]
CV Offline
Founder, Axiom Upgrade Club
shareholder in the making

Registered: 07/20/06
Posts: 11677
Loc: Richland, WA, USA
Yes, thank you, Dean. I was curious about how you'd calibrate the Buttkicker, too. You should get a commission, because I think I'm going to end up with one. D-BOX seems like it would be fun, too, but the price is more than I think I'd be willing to spend.

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#301977 - 04/15/10 01:53 AM Re: The EP500 faired alright in Tom Nousaine's list... [Re: CV]
grunt Offline
connoisseur

Registered: 12/04/06
Posts: 3569
Loc: Nirvana
I agree a D-BOX would be cool but on the utility value scale itís way down the list for me. Plus, one thing I like about the BK is that it works off the original media, thereís no need to have code made for it. Iíve havenít researched it much but if they included the software to encode your own motion it would move up slightly on the list but there are still a lot of other things I could benefit more from like a second sub to even out the bass, some sort of LFE EQ (been following the other thread), room treatments, a good black carpet up front, Iíd love to get solar panels if it was a cost effective investment but. . . .
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