Axiom Home Page Forums General Discussion Home Theater Preferred A/V Receiver

I would like to get everyones opinion on their favourite pick for a home A/V receiver.
Please list the price of the receiver as well; $400, $500, $600 and max of $700 (the expected price from an online company selling below the list price...the ones with the voided factory warranties).
Give a brief reason for your choice, such as:
*features
*best buy for the price
*automatic room set-up
*power
*looks
*remote
* # of channels
*will not become obsolete in the near future
*etc.

Thanks, Rob

For $400 from JandR.com, I got an Onkyo TX-SR601 and have been really happy with it. Sounds great, not too warm or too bright, plenty of power for my Axiom m22's and HSU STF-2. To me, it sounds a bit better than the Yamahas, Sonys, and Pioneers I tested in this price range. I found the sound between it and the H/K 330 to be about the same. I chose the Onkyo, because I think the new H/K's are butt-ugly. I found the Denons in this price range to be a little too warm.

The Onkyo's got all the basic needed A/V features plus some rather nice ones such as two modes of nighttime listening--EXTREMELY useful at 11p.m. in an apartment with the woman sleeping in the next room!

The only irritating thing is that it's not real user-friendly. I really had to take some time to figure everything out. The remote sucks, and the manual is not well written at all. Still, the sound is what ultimately matters, and for $400, I definitely feel I got my money's worth.

jtmccoy,
I agree with you on the looks of the new H/K's.
Thanks for the feedback.

Rob

Hi

I got a Yamaha RXV1400 for USD 630 in Oct.

1) Features : You name it. Some features rarely found on USD 600 receivers that this unit has are Component switching, DPLIIx, Powered Zone 2, Auto room setup, Direct Mode (Bypassing all tone controls like an integrated amp), top-notch and clean sounding 24-bit/192k DAC's.

2) It can be had for around USD 550 in the US through some online companies.

3) Automatic room setup of Yamaha (YPAO) is really good.

4) Power 7 X 110W @ 8 Ohms is what is stated on the spec. sheet of the player. But a more realistic rating would be 70W or so.

5) I have the champagne one (Asian version) which is not that great. I prefer the black version but we cannot get it in Asia.

6) Remote : Very easy to use. I can also operate my Toshiba TV, Panasonic DVD player and JVC VCR with it (built-in codes).

7) 7 channels + 2 presence channels. It can handle all 9 channels simultaneously but requires external amplification for the presence speakers.

8) I think it has too many of the latest features to really become obsolete very soon. Other brands are still playing catchup. The only feature that I would have loved to have on this receiver was the USB Audio feature. The other feature that is lacking on this unit and which is only available on high-end and high-priced receivers is the iLink feature for digital transmission of DVD-Audio signals from players to receivers that are equipped with this port.

I personally cant find any special reason for upgrading my receiver in the near future.

Yamaha also has the slightly higher spec. RX-V2400 but there is very little difference between the 2 models. You should look at the RX-V2400 review on the Audioholics site. This will give you a very clear idea of what to expect from the RX-V1400 receiver.

Good luck in your hunt. Cheers / Mahesh

Mahesh,
I keep hearing about the DPLIIx...what is the "x"?
Is it important to make sure the receivers are updated with this?
If the on-line retailer asks what is DPLIIx, how do you explain it so you can make sure an older version isn't sent?
Rob

I second Mahesh. My only complaint about my 1400 is I wish there was a way I could have it "remember" how I want the subwoofer setting for music vs HT. I like sub out for HT but prefer front speakers only for music. It also won't allow for front speakers set to large with sub out in 2 channel stereo. Kind of small issues but if it would allow for either one I would love it more.

DPLllx can decode audio recorded in 2 channels into up to 7.1 channels and can decode 5.1 audio sources into 7.1 channels. I guess it depends on your setup and how you listen to music or HT if you will use it or not.

By my experience, most of the people you may call for one of these online sellers won't have a clue what you are talking about. I bought mine from Etronics a few weeks ago and was told they did not and by another that they did not know if they had the newer receivers with the DPLllx. I took a chance and mine does have it. I would think by now, most or all should have the newer versions. Good luck.

I just received my Yamaha RX V1400 today, about an hour ago. I purchased from Etronics for $569.95 + shipping and the unit DOES support DPL IIx. I ordered the unit on /1/7/04.

Beauty is in the eye of the beholder, and as such I do like the look of the new H/Ks especially the blue dial that looks like a crescent moon from most angles.

I prefect anything with a bit of silver compared to the non-discript boring black slabs that almost everyone is turning out. They just look dull.

Pretty boring world if we all felt the same

I got an H/K 525 shipped directly from H/K for $500.00. It is a refurb, but comes with the full 2 year warranty.t I have been nothing but happy with it. While it does no have DPL2x or the YPAO that the Yamaha does it does have Logic 7 and DPL2 plus great bass management, great amps with dual power supplies plus EZSet which will auto-level your speakers.

H/K rates their amps very accurately, and never above actual power, always below. Someone stated the Yamaha, rated at 110 is more like 70, actually, it was measured at below 35 per channel, all channels driven.

Remember, those selling the Yamahas for so cheap are NOT authorized, which means no warranty. Many will offer a warranty for extra $. Read the fine print. The warranties say they start after the manufacturers warranty has expired. Well, if there is no manufacturer warranty, it does not expire, so you may never get that warranty you paid extra for.

In reply to:

---

Someone stated the Yamaha, rated at 110 is more like 70, actually, it was measured at below 35 per channel, all channels driven.

---

Check out Audioholics review of the 2400. I don't believe the 1400 is actually 110 per channel, but I also question any "test" that states it's as low as 35 either.

I agree with you completely on the chance one is taking with buying from a non authorized dealer. Most reputable places will stand behind what they sell you for 1 year on a return basis. Some, like myself, are willing to take the chance on getting a $800 receiver at a more than 25% savings and hope for the best. But, I know it is a risk.

(Just defending my Yammi, JimmyTango, no personal attack intended)

Just go with the receiver that you like. I liked the denons, They have less features, I don't use DSP modes, and generally cost a little less and the quality is good. I have great sound throughout the room. Happy picking.

jfoxtrot writes: "My only complaint about my 1400 is I wish there was a way I could have it "remember" how I want the subwoofer setting for music vs HT. "

That's a complaint I second, though I don't own a Yamaha 1400. However, when I make my next receiver purchase, I definitely want one that remembers different sub-out settings for HT vs. music. My current Yamaha does not have this memory-setting and it's irksome. Not a deal-breaker, but it means only I (and not the spouse or guests) can properly set the sub up going between music and movies. Among many features, this is a really nice one, and an essential one, IMHO.

Do the HK 325 and 525 have this sub-setting memory?

Birdman

My previous receiver was a Yamaha 2090. I loved it. Of course, this was their flagship at one point(1995 model). Their flagships seem to have very accurate power ratings. The 2090 was something like 100x3(or 110) and 35x2 for the rears. Also, it had the front surrounds at 35, also, but I never used them as it did nto work with the 5 channel hookups, only pro logic.

i personally was shocked to see the Yamaha ratings so bad. I also feel it is wrong to mislead consumers, and there for moved away from Yamaha for this upgrade.

The H/K's do indeed. You can use Global, where they are all the same, or independant, where you can set it per use, including Dolby Digital, DTS, Stereo, etc.

Their bass management is very good. For DVD-A and SACD, you can also set the cross over per channel, which is VERY flexible and handy option for it's price point. Yes, ti must convert the analog signal to digital for this, and many have complained that woudl lead to a loss in quality. I have noticed no loss in quality at all.

I am not sure on the 325, though. If memory serves, the 325 has what the 525 does BUT the bass management for DVD-A and SACD.

In reply to:

---

Yamaha, rated at 110 is more like 70, actually, it was measured at below 35 per channel, all channels driven.

---

Where can one view these measurments and who did the measuring?

I get great, clean, robust sound from the 2400 and it never feels like it is straining for power even at high volume. If my 2400 is running only 35 w/ch pushing 7 low sensitivity speakers rated at 4 and 6 ohms all I can say is WOW!!!!! Yamaha has pulled off a friggin' miracle with a 35 w/ch receiver.

I find it impossible to believe that I'm getting the kind of performance that I do from a 35 w/ch receiver.

Please let me know where to find these infamous measurments. I have to see it for myself.

Jeff,

Sorry for the dumb qusetion but could you explain, "front speakers set to large with sub out in 2 channel stereo". I know nothing about subwoofers.

Thanks, Rob

Actually, I am not sure the link. It has been posted here numerous time, and on all of the major AV sites. It was from a large magazine, Home Theater Magazine or Sound and Vision. Maybe a different one, too. You might find it by searching the site here, there was a large thread on it.

this would be the link you're thinking of:

Power Rating

Sid,
No thats not what I'm looking for. I've been reading posts (here and at other forums) where folks are squawkin' about the new Yamaha RX-V2400 only putting out 35 w/ch. Funny thing is, none have mentioned where the review originated from.

Hey Mike
yeah, sorry, I knew that one didn't have the 1400/2400 on it, but I thought that was still what you were talking about. Well you know what thought did...

I'll do my best to explain this and without making too long. When setting up HT with a sub, your receiver allows you to "crossover" the low frequencies to your subwoofer. 1) It does a better job at it and of course goes lower than your speakers and 2)The receiver doesn't have to work as hard. This is what "sub out" is. If your crossover is set to lets say 80hz, all signals below 80hz will be sent to the subwoofer.

Your receiver gives several options for setting this up. (and there are many opinions how to) Usually you have the option of setting your speakers to small or large. I believe most opinions are to set your speakers to small for HT. (No matter what size your speakers really are) Of course when set to small, more bass signals will go to the sub. I have found I prefer my front speakers set to large for music. As well as listen to on only the front two vs all five. It sounds fuller to me. Well, my receiver at least and suspect most, when set to 2 speaker stereo for music (with front speakers set to large) even when set to "sub out", for whatever reason, it does not use the subwoofer at the crossover point. It isn't a real big deal, but would be nice for my personal preference. That leaves the options of having to set my front speakers to small to take advantage of that crossover point or set my receiver to send the low freq's to both the fronts and the sub. at the same time. Which I prefer neither over "front speakers set to large with sub out"

I hope this it explains it well enough. If any one can do it better, please do.

I think it makes sense.

When listening to music, you want to use the two main speakers (no center or surround speakers).... with the sub filling in the 20hz-say 80hz.
The Yamaha using the two main speakers in "large" will not switch over to the sub at all...So you are using the two main speakers alone.

This is how I read it. Hope that is what you meant.

Thanks, Rob

Exactly.

I was going to buy main speakers (probably M60's) and a receiver first, then a sub and may be in the future a center and surrounds.
The receiver will be used mainly for listening to music in the near future. Will I have the same problem for music if there are only the two main speakers and a sub.
It sounds like the main speakers can't get their fullest sound if a sub is also attached.
Rob

IMO, the M60s sound best for music if set to large. Whether a sub is attached or not has nothing to do with their sound. (not considering the crossover) They go low enough on their own, that for most music they are fine without a sub. But if you like that little extra "oomph", a sub can make them sound better. That is where I wish I could set them up the way I want. (large/sub out) I often just play music through the fronts. When I want that "oomph" I just change the setting to have the bass to go to the speakers and the sub. That doesn't sound bad, I would just like the option to at least set it anyway I want. For HT, with fronts set to large, sub out, it does send the low freq to the sub, so I wonder why not for 2 channel music. It's really not that big of a deal. And like I said before, it doesn't affect the sound of the mains. Unless you set them to small, which I feel they lose some of their fullness then.

Rob, features are the factor which should determine your decision. In my view and that of many others, the outstanding feature available on some receivers is automatic room and speaker equalization(note, this isn't merely level setting, such as HK has)which can make a significant improvement in the end result. Pioneer and Yamaha have been leaders in this area and now Denon is featuring it on their new 3805. Don't worry about nearly meaningless all channels driven power tests which have little application in real-world operation. All these receivers have ample power and I would suggest that you give particular consideration to the Yamaha 1400 if it fits your budget.

Thank you!!!!

Btw John, where did you hear about the denon 3805?

Mike, read this , but try to not let it affect you in the way it did woodrow in the second post.

Thanks again John!

joxtrot, you were wondering why "For HT, with fronts set to large, sub out, it does send the low freq to the sub, so I wonder why not for 2 channel music"?

I think it's because for 2-channel music there is not dedicated LFE info. When you listen with mains set to large and sub set to out (or "SWFR," "sub-only"), then whether you're listening to 5.1 HT or stereo, 1) all bass info that is intended for the mains stays with the mains and 2) all bass info (or any info) intended for the LFE channel goes there. Since stereo recordings don't program any LFE (no effects, no special bass distinct from the mains, and nothing sent to rears or centers), nothing goes to the sub under this configuration. The sub will only come into play when mains are set to small, which engages the receiver's fixed crossover, OR of course when you are using a 5.1 setup, where anything under the crossover point goes from the mains, center, or surrounds to the sub PLUS anything programmed for the .1/LFE channel. I don't have a variable crossover receiver, but assume that the same applies (someone correct me if I'm wrong). And of course with any receiver or amp, stereo or AV, you can override this by routing your mains through your sub at the speaker connections -- a whole different animal.

Birdman

I have a Denon 3803. If I set my m60's to small and set the crossover at its lowest setting of 40hz would the amount of bass that goes to the mains sound "full"

Would i still get that extra "oomph" in the sub as well as a full sound from the m60's?

I realize that this is a midrange spectrum, i was just wondering what the thoughts on that were

Does anyone know anything about the Yamaha HTR series of receivers. I just bought a Yamaha RX-v2400 at a local shop for $850 (they say the best they can do is 15% of the list to keep the mfgr happy..who knows).
I know someone who works at Best Buy, and can get a substantial discount..catch is they carry Yamaha but, but only the HTR series. Time is running out since the 2400 is home, but not out of the box yet.
Could someonne tell me what options would be lacking on the HTR series (htr 5590 or 5690 was one)? I am guessing YPAO would be out.

I am not aware of all the technical details for this answer (if you do some Yamaha AND htr searches here and elsewhere you may find out) but the general consensus you'll get from experts on this and other hifi forums is stick to the Yamaha rxv2400 and don't look back. Apparently (trading in rumor here) the Yamaha HTR line, while perfectly fine for mass market standards, is not made to the same level of quality in terms of power handling, heat sinks, circuitry and features. I also believe the HTR series may lack the advanced bass management abilities that Yamaha put on the 2400 and 1400. You will want these, so it's worth the upgrade for them alone.

I would however try to get a better price on the 2400 - you're talking USD right, not CDN? New (ie, non-refurbished) 2400s can be purchased from etronics for about $690 + shipping:

• Yamaha RXV2400

There are still good reasons to buy it from a local dealer instead of online (better tech support, ability to return - which you might avail now, your own interest supporting local economy) ... also, personally I don't think it's fair to expect local dealers to give you the same exact price you can get online. But armed with the etronics price, you might go back and politely let the salesperson know you're going to return it unopened, but would purchase it with some kind of an attempt to match the going street price online. Then if they don't want to deal, return it and look into etronics or another e-tailer. You can find some good threads here about the best online sources, since you want to be sure to use an authorized dealer or someone who will back up the warranty.

Birdman

I'm not sure whether I want to take a chance on line, my luck and all. You know Murphy's Law.
I think the stores are limited by how much they can drop a price and still keep the warranty, etc. Is anyone knowledgable on this?
I was told by the person at Best Buy the "HTR" are their own model numbers for The Yamaha series. I just was looking at the Yamaha site and Best But sites.
The Yamaha HTR-5590 from Best Buy has the same front, dimensions and weight as the YamahaRX-V1300 or V1400 (those are the only two that match out of nine RX-Vxxxx models on the Yamaha website). The power output of 100W x 6 is identical to the 1300. So 1300 is the closet match.
However the pics showing the backs are a little different.
Everything is the same except the RX-V1300 has an OUTPUT area which has outputs for:
Subwoofer, Mains Left and Right, Center, Rear Center, Rear(Surround) Left and Right.
You can't zoom in on the picture on the Best Buy site, but it looks like only one output as opposed to seven for the 1300. The only other noticeable difference is the RX-v1300 has a removable power cord..HTR doesn't.

Back of Yamaha HTR-5590
http://www.bestbuy.com/site/olspage.jsp?id=1051806249363&skuId=4783283&type=product
then click on pic

Back of the Yamaha RX-V1300
http://www.yamaha.com/yec/products/backpanels/RXV1300/bRXV1300.htm

Zoom in on RX-V1300 outputs
http://www.yamaha.com/yec/products/backpanels/RXV1300/bRXV1300-3.htm

Can someone explain how to post a link, so that once you "pick it", you are taken to the site, picture, etc.
Does the "link" automatically show up in a different color.

I only know how to copy and paste the address.

Rob, you've picked up the main difference between the HTR and RXV series; the RXV has pre-outs on the back which can send unamplified signals for all the channels to separate external amps. There's generally no particularly good reason to do so, however, so this should't be a determining factor in most cases. Your 2400 is an excellent very powerful receiver which also adds features such as YPAO(which in my view should be a determining factor)and variable crossover frequencies(previously fixed at 90Hz). The less expensive 1400 would probably serve you just about as well and fit your budget better.

Have you read the FAQ?

Robr, I found two threads on the HTR vs. RX-V question you might find interesting. Apparently they are quite similar, at least according to Yamaha, although frankly their corporate post on the topic is pretty vague and opaque:

• Axiom post on HTR series



• Official, and apparently out-of-date, Yamaha explanation of HTR vs. RX-V

Even if the HTR and RX-V series are close or identical beyond cosmetic features, I think you've seen one difference: The big-box retailers overcharge. The irony is you can negotiate a better deal going for the "higher end" Yamaha line by dealing one-on-one with an authorized dealer or doing the online thing, which many (many) of us have done with satisfaction.

Alan had good advice as well on those well-priced receivers. Having overpaid for the HTR receiver, you are (as someone else mentioned) in the enviable position of getting a windfall on the refund while purchasing a better receiver to boot.

Birdman

I remember sending an email to Yamaha on this exact subject, and as stated in the second link Austinbirdman posted, the cust serv rep said the only difference was the colour of the lettering on the front of the machines. According to him everything else was identical between the two series.

Thanks for the info. Like you said, Yamaha was very vague.

I either posted incorrectly before or you misunderstood...I just bought the Yamaha RX-V2400 (which is now returned) from a local shop. The best they would do, after showing them a number of online prices, was 15% off = $850.

However, I forgot I can get a substantial discount on the "HTR" series (employee discount) at Best Buy.

If Best Buy doesn't have an equal I will buy the RX-V2400 either at the local shop, again, or online.
Savings online is $180, risk is ?

RobR
Best Buy shouldn't have an equal to either the 1400 or the 2400. The HTR line (that Best Buy has) will be equivalent to the lower number RXV line (the 440/540/640/740).

Scott,
Thanks.
I just called the Yamaha tech department. You are correct, there are no equals to the RX-V1400 or RX-V2400 series in the HTR lineup.

Tech guy said the 1400/2400 are basically thhe same, other than:
*110W/120W
*2x10,000uF capcitors/2x15,000uF capacitors
*HT plus 1 other room control/HT plus 2 other room controls
*2400 has more inputs and outputs

Just have to decide online or local for the purchase.

Rob

Birdman,
You were right about a larger discount from the local audio store.
Bought speakers and a receiver yesterday. Then I returned the Yamaha RX-V2400 receiver an hour or so after buying it...since girlfriend told me she can get a large discount at Best Buy.
I couldn't pick the speakers up until today (and in the mean time found Yamaha HTR series at Best Buy wasn't the same as the RX-V series). So, I was back to online or the local store again for the receiver.
This time when I asked again, he went from $850 down to $760...Etronics was $690. That was close enough for me, plus I know I have a warranty and no shipping if something goes wrong in the future. He probably still would have dropped it a little, thinking back now.
Rob

If you got a local dealer to let the 2400 go for $760. I would take it and run. You won't even beat that online from an authorized dealer.

Picked 2400 up this afternoon.
Just got 2400 hooked up to the Monitor S8's an hour ago. Seems to work well.

Enjoy your Silver S8's. They are great speakers.

Saturn,
Thanks

Great deal and I couldn't agree with you more -- the very slight "surcharge" to the authorized dealer is well worth it for the support you can get locally, the warranty, and yes, even the support to the dealer -- our hedge against the Wal-Marts of home audio. Nice story overall, and how did I miss that you have Monitor Silver 8s? While I am in love with my Axiom M60s, I do have veneer-envy. Enjoy.

Birdman

PS - If you don't my asking, what did you pay for the Silver S8s?

Ever try plugging up the lower rear port hole(with the supplied cylindrical grey foam...hope you didn't throw em out like someone I knew). I found by doing that the midrange and highs came out even more because a few times the bass can be overwhelming. This is what I found with the Silver S6 that I used to have. It maybe is not an issue with the Silver S8.