Axiom Home Page Forums General Discussion Stereo On wall M22 (W22)

I just saw this speaker and was wondering how well does it sound compared to the normal M22? I listen mostly to music if this helps any.

The reports from a couple owners indicate that it has significantly less bass(less than the specs would indicate)than the regular M22s. Unless the on-wall aspect is absolutely necessary you'd be advised to go with the regular model.

That may or may not apply to the in/on wall M22s, which were/are the original W22s.

I have the bookshelf M22 and the on-wall M22. The on-wall M22 does require a sub-woofer, whereas the bookshelf M22's will play bass sufficiently without one, except for the deepest bass. (As long as you don't buy a cheap receiver. I originally bought a $200 Sony from Newegg and it didn't have enough power to supply any bass.)

The M22 and on wall M22 have exactly the same specs.

If there is one thing I am confident of with Axiom, its their measurements/specs. They have both the equipment and the understanding/ability to use that equipment properly.

Perhaps issues with the on wall have more to do with placement and room modes than speaker performance?

I did a direct side by side testing of the onwall with the new power bracket against my m22's. Even though the specs are similar, there was a very noticable difference in the mid to lower bass frequencies. With my M22's I could get by with no sub, however, the same is not true for the onwalls. You really need a sub with these to give you a good overall experience. The smaller cabinet just can't produce the same deep base as the bookshelf. I'm not saying they are bad though, they sound very good.

It's interesting how those who have never listened to the difference swear that they must sound the same.

I was also using the same room and the same wall.

Knowing the fact that they produce less bass which is understandable with the design difference, do they sound similar in the mid and higher end?

I think they were pretty close. The onwalls I tested were brand new, so it is possible the drivers and crossover were closer to a v3 speaker. I think the mids sounds a bit hollower, which can probably be explained by the thinner cabinet, not sure.

Hi all and SirQuack,

I would second SirQuack's judgements of the on-wall M22s vs the Bookshelf version. Specs are helpful but they don't tell you everything, and you definitely need a subwoofer with the on-wall M22s.

The in-wall/on-wall M22s have better bass than the pure on-wall version because they use a larger vented enclosure (the ports are on the bottomside of the outer enclosure).

http://www.axiomaudio.com/wallspeakerw22_main.html

Regards,
Alan

The w22 is the only front axiomn speaker I have heard so far. I would really love a chance to hear some of their full range speakers. It sounds like I am missing out.

Would it be possible to make the M22 on walls with a bigger cabinet? I wouldn't mind a design that stuck out a bit more from the wall and was a bit longer than necessary if it would improve the midrange and bass a bit. Where I wouldn't want to compromise would be in the width.

Perhaps placing the tweeter in the middle or the lower end instead of on top where the higher placement would be more above ear level. Or, same speaker placement with a higher box with no speakers at that spot.

Also, just as an idea, if the M22 cabinet was modified, then perhaps for those that would want to upgrade, we could just purchase the new cabinet and use the existing components that we already have (except perhaps a redesigned XO). Just my opinion.

In Cinnamon Beech, of course.

:play cricket noise sound track here:

Why not just wall mount regular M22s with a Full Metal Bracket? Do you want something in between an on-wall and a standard bookshelf in depth?

Yes. One that looks like the OW M22, only with a slightly bigger box. The bookshelf M22 would stick out way too far for a flat mount TV.

Still not as good as the bookshelf M22, but possibly better than the current OW M22, IMO.

Just buy a deeper mount for your TV to match the depth of the regular M22s.

DLP finally comes into its own!

DLP? Is that...

1) Data Loss Prevention.
2) Digital Light Processing.
3) Discrete Logarithm Problem.
4) Democratic Left Party.
5) Dominica Labor Party.
6) Democratic Labor Party.
7) Delta Lambda Phi.
8) Disneyland Paris.
9) Defense of Life or Poverty.
10) Dutch Labor Party.
11) Digital List Price.
12) Don't Look Patunia.

I'm revoking your AV card.

This is a possibility. I'm exploring all options

I was always under the impression that if you could hear it, you could measure it. That appears to be Dr. Tools message in the papers and articles I have read.

I would love to have a conversation with you around this topic during the anniversary gathering.

I have a set of both 22's being discussed here. Quite frankly, I wouldn't have either without a sub, so to me, the "you need a sub" point is mute. I prefer the O/W 22's over the regular M22v2's by a large margin. The mid / highs to me are much more pleasing. Now the latest M22's, it would be safe to assume, sound just as pleasing to me as the O/W's due to having the same components.

Do you have the bookshelf M22's set to large, and are the rear ports near a wall?

I have the iw/ow 22's and I wouldn't use them without a sub, but I haven't exactly compared them to the standard M22's in my room, either. I would agree with michael however in that chances are you're going to want a sub with either one (especially for movies), so the point is kind of moot.

Maybe it's just me, but with the standard M22's I felt that I really didn't need a sub, even with movies.

I wasn't happy with the in wall or on wall compromise- just compare the cabinet volumes- the difference is huge.

It's just you.

I'm still hoping for an On-wall M23 in Cinnamon Beech. (OW M23 = OW M22 with expanded cabinet size. Say 3 inches taller and 1.5 inches thicker. Maybe with 3 midrange speakers instead of 2. From top to bottom, WTWW, or WWTW.)

Exactly, once you have a sub you just can't go back

I am limited by depth in my home theater setup. So I am looking at getting the on wall M22's and VP150 (I wanted to make the jump to M60's or M80's, but they are too deep). What if I used 2 On wall VP 150's placed vertically on sides for my front L and R? Would I get any benefit over using the M22's on the sides?

If I understand this thread correctly, as long as I have a good sub, the On wall M22's should sound just as good as the bookshelf versions?

I listen to 80% HT and 20% Music.

No comment.

Actually, I have a gripe with the on-wall M22's. I have the bookshelf and the on-wall versions. I have plenty of good things to say about the bookshelf, but so far, with the on-walls, only a lot of adjusting on the AVR to come up with anything close to what the bookshelf version sounds like without any success.

Does this make the on-wall M22 a "bad" speaker? No, just a very different sounding speaker. There is more brightness and less bass. Some of the bass can be added back in if you don't use any lower cut off with a cross over, but it's still not the same. What would help is a sub that can go upwards over 150 hz perhaps to fill in the missing upper bass. Or, my suggestion would be to re-design the on-wall M22 to have a bigger cabinet. Thicker mainly and perhaps a tad taller.

As to using a vertical speaker horizontally, or a horizontal speaker vertically, I think you would be defeating the purpose of how that speaker was designed, resulting in sonic differences. (or actually I think that would be dispersion differences.)

I don't think the W22 cabinet needs to be any bigger, although I'm not arguing that from a physics standpoint... It's just that it's a pretty big hunk of wood hanging out from the wall already. The speaker also has 10.5" of woofer, although not having done high school math in over a decade I can't tell you that would equate to in a single driver (about 7" I would guess). Compare that to your typical bookshelf or in wall speaker, or even satellite.

I don't think anybody has ever stated they go as deep as the standard model, but I disagree they do not go low enough to integrate properly with a sub, especially for music. With movies they don't hit you in the chest like a big floorstander would, but I don't believe the M22's do either.

Edit: Picture whoring for effect

Okay so the multiple VP150s idea doesn't sound like a good option. Potatohead thank you for your input. Did you have M22 bookshelf speakers before the On Wall M22s?

Anyone else out there own the On wall M22's that have an opinion? The On Wall M22 is perfect (size wise) for what I'm looking for, I just don't want to give up any sound quality that I am used to from my Bookshelf M22s.

I believe that Potatohead has on-wall/in-wall M22's which go lower than the on-wall M22's do.

The only thing you give up with the on wall is the extreme lower end, which makes sense as the cabinet volume is what allows the drivers to output lower. Like Alan usually says, these are 2 similarily good speakers. I would be very surprisd if you found anything other than that lacking from the On wall vs the bookshelf model without A/Bing them to hear the differences.

Correct, I have the IW/OW, which I guess used to be knows as the W22. In all honesty in my previous response I forgot the new on wall only version even existed, so my findings may be a bit skewed... I have not heard the newest version.

Andrew, I have the W22 and W150 (in/on wall) same as Potatohead. I also inquired about multiple 150's with Axiom when I was piecing together my system. In short, the 150's are designed to be horizontally mounted and do not reach as low as the 22's so are not recommended for L & R channel use. In fact if you could have a vertically mounted 22 for the center that would be the best bet - 3 identical speakers across the front - that's just not practical for 95% of us.

FWIW my in/on wall W22's do play down to 80Hz easily (I have verified with test tones and SPL measures) and integrate very well with my EP500 sub.

So if you were to use 3 M22's on the front, what height would you want to put the center? If it's the same height as the other two, it'd be behind the T.V. I assume that's not optimum.

Ideally, the tweeters of all three M22s would be at ear level. Obviously, you have to work with what you have. How would the center M22 be accommodated in your system? I don't have three M22s, but I have two M80s and an M22 which I have on a stand directly in front of my TV stand. This puts the speaker as high as possible without intruding on the picture. It also puts the M22's tweeter in line with the lower tweeters on the M80s. This seems to work well for me.

One option, if the right and left M22s are above ear level, is to turn them upside-down to get the tweeters closer to the tweeter of the center speaker, assuming placement of the center below the TV. I personally haven't had any luck placing my centers above my TV, but I assume that's simply because I sit so close to my screen, putting it at an extreme angle.