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Holy crap Griffith. You'd think that the format war was still going on.

At the time of HD-DVD's "death", like I said, "It was a great format, and in many cased superior to Blu-Ray at the time..."

Note the "at the time" part.

Blu-Ray discs were all 25 GB, no dual layer-50 GB like today and most mainstream HD-DVDs were doing 30 GB oh and the HD-DVD specs already allowed for a triple layer that would bring it to 51 GB, meaning that it could actually do more storage than Blu-Ray.

PQ was decisively worse on Blu-Ray (month after month after month, HD movie reviews in home theater magazines were about how much better the PQ was on HD-DVD).

DVD upconversion was(is) better on HD-DVD players.

HD-DVD had internet connectivity and "live" content well before you could get anything on Blu-Ray.

Heck, the Blu-Ray standard wasn't even finalized until after the war was won where HD-DVD was set out there in advance.

HD-DVD was on Gen2 devices about the time that the first Gen1 Blu-Ray machines really hit the shelves. That meant significant improvements and bug fixes that were solved while Blu-Ray players still struggled.

As for paying companies off, what is $50M ($100M total) when Sony paid Warner $400M and Fox $120M.

The PS3 argument has already been killed off for the most part as a "winning element". Most people with PS3's during the "war" had them for gaming, and the only Blu-Ray movie they had was Spider Man or whatever was bundled. Sony was able to say that they had more Blu-Ray players sold than HD-DVD because they included the PS3, which first and foremost (at the time, again AT THE TIME) was a gaming machine. I know that since then, more people were willing to grab a PS3 as a Blu-Ray player because they knew that it was not a dead format, but I thought that we are talking about during the war.

Please *read* peoples' posts before arguing about it. I love Blu-Ray media, and its day too will pass, but this whole thing for me was about getting HD content as soon as possible. HD-DVD did a great job at it, and now that Blu-Ray has had time to catch up and surpass what HD-DVD did before it was killed off, it has been a great format that I have enjoyed for a few years now too.

I am really not bitter about the who, what, and why anymore of the war, but it seems like you are still stuck in it.

Friend (and I really mean that because we are all friends here, even when we debate things), I've been where you are on this war... Let it go. Blu-Ray won. Sit back, pop in a movie, crank up the Axioms and enjoy it. THAT is what is important. That YOU like what you've got.

Hey Nick I did not mean to sound like I was arguing with you. I thought I said that too sorry. But Warner never got 400 million that number was BS made up by Toshiba. And it is a fact that nearly 70 percent of PS3 owners were using the PS3 to play Blu Rays. At least thats what many polls showed at the time

Here is a quote from Wikipedia

By August 2007, HD DVD appeared to have a promising future, was seeing its highest sales (though still substantially lower than Blu-ray)

Blu Ray with its late start was already selling 2 to 1 against HD DVD

Fox would never ever release movies on HD DVD because of HD DVDs lack of security. Blu was not any better in real life, but it had better specs on paper

Those 3 layer discs you mention would not work on any HD DVD player. They simply were not compatible Blu Ray has 4 layer discs now. But no one uses them except for storage, why? Because they are not compatible with the current hardware

Those reviews you mention was comparing bad Blu with best HD DVD

The upconverting was better, Really? Come on man you are better than that

And I am not arguing with you, Just chatting. But you have to understand, I was making my living. Writing and reviewing Blu and HD back then. So I used to get very, very angry mail every time I said some thing positive about Blu Ray. I have no love for either format, but HD DVD was a giant failure waiting to happen and I am glad it happened sooner than later

Cite your source for this.

Sooner would have meant dying off as quickly as the Divx format died off when it was challenging DVD. HD DVD put up more of a fight. HD DVD had plenty to offer. The picture and audio quality was there. As far as the three-layer discs not being able to play, they were saying that all it would take was a firmware update. Maybe that was a lie, but it's something they were banking on.

HD DVD didn't have region coding, right? That's one thing that would put it over Blu-ray. Also, Managed Copy is dead on Blu-ray. On HD DVD it was a part of the spec at the beginning, and while it never got to be used, it was more likely to happen on that format. Perhaps it would never have turned into what I wanted it to turn into, which would be a legal way to rip my high-def movies into a jukebox-style program, but the potential was there.

I'm fine with Blu-ray, but I still wonder how different it would be if HD DVD had won.

come on....
HD DVD lost....let's continue life with Blu untill something else take over..(maybe till the time when we can d/l a 50GB movies in 10 mins?)

Discussion is fun, though.

I am a mere spectator to the show!

Cite your source, Paramount, Toshiba and Microsoft have openly talked about the deal they made. Warner and Sony have both publicly denied money was exchanged, source the digital bits. The only thing anyone could find is that Sony help Warner replicate discs and split costs on some transfers for from 400 million. And once again Warner had interest in HD DVD why would they give that up for any amount, they would not. They knew HD DVD was dead on arrival.

Oh yeah a firmware update like how Hdmi 1.1 players got 1.3 audio capabilities Toshiba promised that too. Toshiba also promised a regular dvd player that would render Blu and HD DVD worthless. How did that work out? How about the fact Toshiba was in a sinking ship. And would say anything to keep there product alive.

How about the fact that after Warner with Blu only Toshiba said it would have no impact. And slashed all there players by half or more. The reason? No not because they lost, but because that's the magic price point for mass acceptance. Sure not because your format died and stores need to clear space, right.

If it was so good and had so much potential why did it lose? Because the mighty juggernaut Sony paid everyone, Sony is unbeatable they have magic pockets. Oh wait BetaMax bombed so Sony isn't unbeatable. I guess HD DVD just sucked nuts.

Blu WINS Blu WINS lol Sorry just joking but had to say it

Betamax bombed and Sony still feels that sting and was willing to do anything to make sure Blu won and they achieved that goal.

It is easy to publicly deny anything and still have transactions take place.

You really do hate HD DVD, I'll give you that.