 My speakers arrived but...
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One M22 wasn't shipped. 
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They don't always arrive on the same day.
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Look on the bright side, now you have enough speaker wire. 
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They don't always arrive on the same day. Particularly when the FEDEX guy takes one home to listen to.
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Yeah, Ichigo; it's unlikely that Axiom shipped one M22 rather than two, so the 2nd is probably coming.
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No! Axiom didn't ship or at least didn't give me the tracking number. I got tracking number for 6 boxes and I got all of them. 1 box for each qs8, 1 box for speaker wire and sub cable, 1 box for the ep350 and 1 for each M22. It was supposed to be 3 M22's but received just 2 and there is no tracking number for the other one missing. I just e-mailed Noreen and I gotta wait for her answer. Hopefully they will ship it soon.
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Ahh, here's hoping you get it soon, yeah.
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Re: My speakers arrived but...
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That sucks, Ichigo. Hopefully it was just an oversight and the shipping company has it.
At least you do have two to hook up and can enjoy some stereo listening?
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Yes, it's possible that the 3rd M22 was overlooked, but this would still be disappointingly inept handling. It's assumed that you were charged for the 3rd M22?
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Yes I have been charged the third M22. I guess they forgot to send it. LOL
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Re: My speakers arrived but...
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Hey, it's not everyday an M22 gets to fly to Japan! I'm sure he's just out sightseeing a bit.
Last edited by St_PatGuy; 07/20/10 05:23 AM. Reason: spelling
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Sorry for the newbie question but, is there any way I can make the sub work while listening to music. I put on a movie to see why the sub wasn't working, it seems to me that just when listening to music it does not work, will it be because I had pure direct on or stereo mode?
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I believe pure direct just sends the signals to the speakers. You may have to either turn that mode off or adjust it.
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Yes; you can't use a "pure direct" mode because no bass processing takes place. Use a stereo or surround(e.g., DPLII) mode with the M22s set "small" and with an 80Hz crossover.
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There is a specific setting on my Denon 27808 for mains + sub (vs stereo). It should be the same for you.
Fred
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I will look for it on the manual. Thanks! Since one M22 is missing I hooked up my old stereo speaker as the center channel. LOL It might not be as good as the M22 but at least the voices on the movies can be heard. Right now I am setting up the QS8's. They won't be on the right place because of the lack of speaker wire that I will be getting tomorrow. So far I like the sound coming out of the M22 but there is a sensation of lack of bass. My old stereo speakers have more bass coming out but the midrange is not so good.
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Hey, it's not everyday an M22 gets to fly to Japan! I'm sure he's just out sightseeing a bit.
I so want to take an M22 to work with me and get a picture of it at the airport to post here. Sort of like the gnome thing. Yes like Fred says your Denon should have a menu setting for using the subwoofer with 2ch. My old 2807 even allowed a separate crossover setting for 2ch+sub vs multi-channel+sub.
3M80 2M22 6QS8 2M2 1EP500 Sony BDP-S590 Panny-7000 Onkyo-3007 Carada-134 Xbox Buttkicker AS-EQ1
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How much noise is the EP350 supposed to make. I think it is kinda weak. Is it normal? Does the fact of Japan electric voltage being lower has something to do with it?
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Since one M22 is missing I hooked up my old stereo speaker as the center channel. LOL It might not be as good as the M22 but at least the voices on the movies can be heard. You should be able to turn the center channel to "off" on your receiver to have what's called a "phantom" center. This is when the receiver takes the center channel's track and divides it evenly between your Left and Right Mains.
::::::: No disrespect to Axiom, but my favorite woofer is my yellow lab :::::::
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Did you run the auto-setup from your denon? If so let us know what it set all of the channel levels at, particularly the sub though. What is the gain knob set to on your 350?
-David
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Re: My speakers arrived but...
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Sorry for my noobness. What is gain knob? I particularly don't feel any difference with the sub on or off, the sound looks the same. Sometimes I feel a little wind coming from the woofer but that's all.
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The gain knob is used to control how much stronger/weaker the incoming signal will be pre-amplified (gain) before the amplication that will drive the sub's woofers.
After re-checking your AVR settings (I think you have a Denon, so a Denon owner will need to jump in at this point for this part), try playing something with heavy bass and slowly (very slowy), turn the gain knob up.
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How much noise is the EP350 supposed to make. I think it is kinda weak. Is it normal? Does the fact of Japan electric voltage being lower has something to do with it? I thought Japanese voltage was also 110V. In any case, the sub is dual voltage so you have nothing to worry about. Like others have said, the M22s set to small and the crossover set to 80Hz on the receiver should do it. If you feel air moving coming from the sub, it should be working. I've never heard it but keep in mind the the EP350 should be a subtle sub and if you're used to the bass of a lesser quality stereo system (aka boom boom boom), I am not sure you'll get the same effect.
Bruno
M80s/VP180/QS8s/EP600/AVR-890
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"The problem is choice..."
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Re: My speakers arrived but...
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You should notice a difference if you turn it up. And/or if you tap the input plug... which is not something I necessarily recommend doing, but it'll certainly tell you if the amp/driver are working...
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Re: My speakers arrived but...
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Unplug all of the other speakers and listen to just the EP350. There's a big difference in source material. Some are bass heavy and others are light.
Also, on my Pioneer, I can set the fronts to Large and the SW to Plus, which essentially turns off the crossovers. I don't necessarily recommend this setting, but at least you can get the full effect without crossovers to test with. You might find that you like this setting the best, at least for now. I know I did, but I've changed to the 80hz crossover since then.
Edit: I don't know what Large and Plus are called on the Denon.
Last edited by CatBrat; 07/20/10 01:29 PM.
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Re: My speakers arrived but...
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Unplug all of the other speakers and listen to just the EP350. There's a big difference in source material. Some are bass heavy and others are light.
Also, on my Pioneer, I can set the fronts to Large and the SW to Plus, which essentially turns off the crossovers. I don't necessarily recommend this setting, but at least you can get the full effect without crossovers to test with. You might find that you like this setting the best, at least for now. I know I did, but I've changed to the 80hz crossover since then.
Edit: I don't know what Large and Plus are called on the Denon. LFE + Mains
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Re: My speakers arrived but...
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Also, check the toggle switch on the back for crossover settings and make sure it's on the highest setting. Probably 40 or 150 hz. Switch to 150 hz.
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Well the data I got from Audissey is as following:
Speaker
Front, center, surround are set to small.
Channel level
Front L -4.0
Front R +5.5
Center -9.0
Surround L -6.5
Surround R - 7.5
Sub -12.0
Crossover
Front 60 Hz
Center 60 Hz
Surround 80 Hz
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Re: My speakers arrived but...
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The voltage here in Japan is 100V.
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Also, check the toggle switch on the back for crossover settings and make sure it's on the highest setting. Probably 40 or 150 hz. Switch to 150 hz. I already did that as stated in the manual. Thanks
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That looks like a big difference in adjustment for L/R. -4 vs +5.5.
Are these speakers up close to a wall? If not, that might explain a lack of bass from the M22's.
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I think they are 2 feet away from the wall.
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Try 4 to 6 inches instead.
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OK, I will try that out. I saw some kind of set up on the speakers written fullband, what would that be? I was looking for it again, but didn't find.
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The gain knob is used to control how much stronger/weaker the incoming signal will be pre-amplified (gain) before the amplication that will drive the sub's woofers.
After re-checking your AVR settings (I think you have a Denon, so a Denon owner will need to jump in at this point for this part), try playing something with heavy bass and slowly (very slowy), turn the gain knob up. Thanks for the explanation. I got it now. The only problem is that I don't have anything with heavy bass. I will go to the music store tomorrow to get some CD.
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Any suggestion of what to buy?
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Do you like Lady Gaga? LoL. It has some nice bass.
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I am very eclectic regarding music listening. The only thing I don't like is hard rock, besides that anything is okay.
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Re: My speakers arrived but...
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It sure do! Like Studio 54 in your living room "nice."
New Ozzy Osborne "Scream" will do some interior renovation demolition for you.
Or latest by Phoenix "Wolgang Amadeus Phoneix"
Have a blast!!!!
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I am gonna look at my old stuff because there is one cd of mine that is for people who likes bass. Better go look for it. Also am trying your suggestion. LOL My wife loves Lady Gaga and I can tell her that the CD is for her.  So there will be no complaints.
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Oops! Skip the Ozzy.
3rd CD by Garbage "Beautiful Garbage."
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Same here. My music horizons have expanded over the years, I don't care for hard rock much either anymore, except for some of the old groups, that I wouldn't classify as hard rock, but others might, such as ZZTop, Police, Jimi Hendrix.
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It sure do! Like Studio 54 in your living room "nice."
New Ozzy Osborne "Scream" will do some interior renovation demolition for you.
Or latest by Phoenix "Wolgang Amadeus Phoneix"
Have a blast!!!! Thanks for the suggestion.
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Now I am just waiting for Noreen to answer my e-mail regarding my missing M22. LOL One thing I realized s that my old stereo speaker is only good enough for 2 channel listening, there is a huge difference on volume between the M22 and my old speakers when using it on a 5.1 system.
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How should I adjust the LFE settings on the receiver?
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Re: My speakers arrived but...
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The only problem is that I don't have anything with heavy bass. That might explain why you're not hearing/feeling much bass
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Re: My speakers arrived but...
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htnut
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How should I adjust the LFE settings on the receiver? What LFE settings are you looking to adjust? There shouldn't be that many. The most important ones would be yes/no (ie. present or not present) and crossover, which as was mentioned before should be set to 150hz. I don't think my Denon has any other settings specific to LFE.
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Many good suggestions here! I'm also surprised at the L/R front level difference (It's a HUGE difference). Check to make sure the connections are secure.
As far as the sub goes, according to Audyssey your sub is working because it is trying to attenuate the signal by 12db. I would try to fix the L/R channel problem first then re-run Audyssey again.
Also, keep in mind that you sub will be drawing about 15% more current because of running it at 100V versus 120V. Keep an eye on the power light ever now and then because you stand a better chance of blowing the sub fuse at higher listening levels.
Good Luck!
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The only problem is that I don't have anything with heavy bass. That might explain why you're not hearing/feeling much bass That's exactly what I was thinking while reading the thread. Somebody that doesn't have music with bass worried about the sub not outputting any 
Bruno
M80s/VP180/QS8s/EP600/AVR-890
------------------------------------
"The problem is choice..."
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How should I adjust the LFE settings on the receiver? You might want to spend some time going through the entire product manual to get familiar with all aspects of your new receiver. It can be very intimidating at first when you buy a product with so many diffrent features. As for adjusting the LFE you will have to go into the system setup to turn on/off the subwoofer, adjust the subwoofer crossover point and choose settings for your speakers such as small, large or large + subwoofer which is more appropriately what Denon calls LFE + Mains. As for adjusting the voltage on your new subwoofer (sub pre-out), you can access that with your remote using the CH SEL button (I hope this is the same with your receiver but I am not sure).
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Many good suggestions here! I'm also surprised at the L/R front level difference (It's a HUGE difference). Check to make sure the connections are secure.
As far as the sub goes, according to Audyssey your sub is working because it is trying to attenuate the signal by 12db. I would try to fix the L/R channel problem first then re-run Audyssey again.
Also, keep in mind that you sub will be drawing about 15% more current because of running it at 100V versus 120V. Keep an eye on the power light ever now and then because you stand a better chance of blowing the sub fuse at higher listening levels.
Good Luck! I guess I have a problem on my apartment electric wire. Sometimes while listening to music and if the light of the room were turned on or off the receiver was turning off for a couple of seconds. What could it be? It looks like it is draining more power than the receiver could supply I guess.
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I was watching Master and Commander and didn't feel anything on the cannon scene. lol
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Is it a holiday in Canada? I haven't received any answer to my e-mail yet. That does not look like a good customer support for me.
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Re: My speakers arrived but...
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You should have levitated during that scene!
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I'm supposing that, a dedicated electrical circuit is out of the question? That might help in your situation.
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I need to listen to that canon scene again. I do remember a lot of noise, but it seems to have been mostly in the mid to upper frequencies.
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I'm supposing that, a dedicated electrical circuit is out of the question? That might help in your situation. What would it mean?
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Re: My speakers arrived but...
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I was watching Master and Commander and didn't feel anything on the cannon scene. lol I had the same problem when I got my EP500, I didn't feel good about it at all, no bass or LFE's, asked here, forgot about the "10 o'clock setting, ran an SPL meter for all speakers, then turned it up to 2PM , moved the sub to different positions till I found one and all is well!
Last edited by wordgasm; 07/20/10 11:23 PM.
Fronts/Wides:M22s in/on
Center:VP150/VP100 in/on
Hghts,SS,SR:QS8s
Sub:EP500
AVR:Onkyo 3008
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Re: My speakers arrived but...
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I was wondering would this receiver turn off thing be caused by my stereo speaker connected on the center channel?
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Re: My speakers arrived but...
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In case I don't feel a nice bass I was wondering about returning the sub and upgrading to 3 M80's. LOL So taking in consideration the room is small I guess I will have a nice sound.
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Re: My speakers arrived but...
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You could also try hooking an ipod or the directly to the sub input and see if you hear anything that way. Axiom will ask you to hook up speaker wire to the high level inputs to test, as well.
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Re: My speakers arrived but...
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I was listening to my M80s and EP350 this afternoon, and there was lots and lots of bass--and it wasn't just from the M80s. Either we'll figure out your EP350 problem, or Axiom will make it right, and you'll also have lots and lots of bass. I think in addition to the tests, you should also go in and manually turn up the bass in the receiver; I worked on a friend's EP500 and Denon receiver once where it kept doing the same thing: turning the sub down to -12.
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Re: My speakers arrived but...
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In case I don't feel a nice bass I was wondering about returning the sub and upgrading to 3 M80's. LOL So taking in consideration the room is small I guess I will have a nice sound. I wouldnt worry my room is 10 x 11 and I don't think the EP500 is too big!
Fronts/Wides:M22s in/on
Center:VP150/VP100 in/on
Hghts,SS,SR:QS8s
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AVR:Onkyo 3008
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Re: My speakers arrived but...
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LOL I did that already after I run Audissey and it calibrated on -12 I changed to +12. I am going to test it now since it was late at night and didn't wanna bother the neighbors.
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Re: My speakers arrived but...
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+12?! I don't know that I'd go that high!
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Re: My speakers arrived but...
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Today I am gonna be moving the sub around. I will put it on the corner first.
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Re: My speakers arrived but...
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+12?! I don't know that I'd go that high! How should I set it up then?
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Re: My speakers arrived but...
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I'd start with 0. A 24 dB difference is huge! What position do you have the gain/volume knob set on the EP350?
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Re: My speakers arrived but...
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It is on max since I connected it!
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Re: My speakers arrived but...
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There's something wrong. That should be blowing you out of the room. Turn it down to at least halfway and tap the input cable a bit. It should thump loudly and rather dangerous-sounding-ly.
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Re: My speakers arrived but...
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Is the power light on your sub on (green light by the power switch)?
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Re: My speakers arrived but...
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The power switch is on and so does the green light.
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Re: My speakers arrived but...
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There's something wrong. That should be blowing you out of the room. Turn it down to at least halfway and tap the input cable a bit. It should thump loudly and rather dangerous-sounding-ly. I am gonna go try that!
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Re: My speakers arrived but...
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Ichigo_Kurosaki,
The most likely problem you are having with your subwoofer is in the settings themselves which is causing the sub to receive not enough voltage from the subwoofer pre-out for proper output. That is noted by the -12 setting. It is highly likely this is the problem EVEN with the gain set to max on the subwoofer. Use the knob on the Ep350 and set it a little past half way and change your settings from -12 to +2 for the sub on your receiver and see if that makes any notable difference. If it does then we found the problem and we can tweak your system for proper calibration from there.
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Re: My speakers arrived but...
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I think it is okay now. After positioning on the corner. It is making much more bass than I thought it would. My only problem now is with the M22. LOL
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Re: My speakers arrived but...
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I think it is okay now. After positioning on the corner. It is making much more bass than I thought it would. My only problem now is with the M22. LOL Corner loading would technically give you some more output. You should still try the settings I suggested. Its not a accurate setting by any means but it should tell you if there was a problem with your previous settings (low voltage) caused by the setting of -12.
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Re: My speakers arrived but...
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Ichigo_Kurosaki,
The most likely problem you are having with your subwoofer is in the settings themselves which is causing the sub to receive not enough voltage from the subwoofer pre-out for proper output. That is noted by the -12 setting. It is highly likely this is the problem EVEN with the gain set to max on the subwoofer. Use the knob on the Ep350 and set it a little past half way and change your settings from -12 to +2 for the sub on your receiver and see if that makes any notable difference. If it does then we found the problem and we can tweak your system for proper calibration from there. Should I change the position out of the corner then?
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Re: My speakers arrived but...
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Ichigo_Kurosaki,
The most likely problem you are having with your subwoofer is in the settings themselves which is causing the sub to receive not enough voltage from the subwoofer pre-out for proper output. That is noted by the -12 setting. It is highly likely this is the problem EVEN with the gain set to max on the subwoofer. Use the knob on the Ep350 and set it a little past half way and change your settings from -12 to +2 for the sub on your receiver and see if that makes any notable difference. If it does then we found the problem and we can tweak your system for proper calibration from there. Should I change the position out of the corner then? For now, leave it where it is when you change the settings. If you notice more output after changing the settings, then yes it was a setup issue and you can than proceed to try all different areas in your room. Placing the sub in the corner might not end up being ideal if you try other locations. It is possible that it might sound "boomy" or "bloaty" compared to other placements and vice-versa. You might also have to make minor tweaks to the settings as well. Let us know if increasing the pre-out level from -12 to +2 works first.
I’m armed and I’m drinking. You don’t want to listen to advice from me, amigo.
-Max Payne
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Re: My speakers arrived but...
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I am not finding this now. I am gonna take a look on the manual. The only setting I am finding is a 0, +5 +10 and +15 thing. Is it possible to change audissey setup manually? I went to the manual setup but am not finding the sub settings to be changed!
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Re: My speakers arrived but...
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I am not finding this now. I am gonna take a look on the manual. The only setting I am finding is a 0, +5 +10 and +15 thing. Is it possible to change audissey setup manually? I went to the manual setup but am not finding the sub settings to be changed! Yes take a look at the product manual. The 0, +5, +10 and +15 settings you are finding are for Ext. In. It is useful when you are using multi-channel analog for SACD or Blu-ray. It is irrelevant to your situation so just ignore it. If you have a CH SEL/Enter button on the remote press it and see if you can cycle through all the speaker channels including the sub. If you can, this is the setting you want to increase. It will read -12, increase it to +2.
I’m armed and I’m drinking. You don’t want to listen to advice from me, amigo.
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Re: My speakers arrived but...
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The remote center button on the Denon is usually the quickest way to the speaker channel level settings.
Jason
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VP160 v3
QS8 v2
PB13 Ultra
Denon 3808
Samsung 85" Q70
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Re: My speakers arrived but...
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Should I change the position out of the corner then? Corner loading a sub will cause it to excite all the room modes (the frequencies where the sound pressure waves build up and overlap due to the major dimensions of the room: height, width, and depth). Normally this would cause very boomy sounding output, because those few frequencies are accented way above everything else. But with modern electronics, and things like Audyssey it actually makes sense to corner load a sub. It's much easier to attenuate (cut back) those three big peaks, than it is to fill in holes. It still may not be ideal, but one sub in a room rarely is. But corner loading plus room correction can work pretty well.
Pioneer PDP-5020FD, Marantz SR6011
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Re: My speakers arrived but...
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Lots of activity, Ichigo. I'll comment on a few points. First, to clear up the terminology a bit, audio amplifiers and pre-amplifiers have fixed gain, and so they don't have "gain controls". The knob on the sub that makes things louder or softer is connected to a variable resistor which acts as a volume control by varying the amount of incoming voltage(from the receiver pre-out)which is let in to be amplified by the fixed amount of gain. You shouldn't have to set this above about half way, and the -12 adjustment that Audyssey made indicates that next time you run Audyssey you should set it a bit lower so that the end result is closer to 0 than -12. The difference between the front left and right speakers is rather extreme, so check the right one carefully to see if possibly one of the drivers isn't working. Generally, except in a square room(one poor devil here, who shall remain nameless, has one)the corner is the best place for the strongest and smoothest response from a single sub, so leave it there. As for a suggestion of a CD to give your Axioms a good workout and being great listening too, consider this performance of Holst's The Planets, available at bargain prices.
-----------------------------------
Enjoy the music, not the equipment.
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Re: My speakers arrived but...
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Any suggestion of what to buy? They play a lot of electronic music genres but all their work has a nice drum beat that will give you a good mid-bass punch. The youtube video is a little week since when I play the an mp3 of this song in my car at moderate volume everything shakes. I think Charles even likes them now. Plus Exo-Chika is hot.
3M80 2M22 6QS8 2M2 1EP500 Sony BDP-S590 Panny-7000 Onkyo-3007 Carada-134 Xbox Buttkicker AS-EQ1
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Re: My speakers arrived but...
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If you are really going to try to read the Denon manual this might help: BATPIG'S "DENON-TO-ENGLISH DICTIONARY" SETUP GUIDE AND FAQ
3M80 2M22 6QS8 2M2 1EP500 Sony BDP-S590 Panny-7000 Onkyo-3007 Carada-134 Xbox Buttkicker AS-EQ1
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Re: My speakers arrived but...
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I think Charles even likes them now. Yup, I do. Fun album.
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Re: My speakers arrived but...
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Well in the morning after changing the sub to the corner I started to feel some bass. Should I turn the front or the back of the sub to the wall?? The Auralex Moped arrived today. I don't remember who gave me the suggestion of buying it. One thing I realized is that if I am sitting closer to the M22's I don't feel the bass and sounds like to volume of the sound is lower than if I sit on the back of the room, is that normal? Was it supposed to be like that? I don't know why but I haven't been very excited about Master and Commander, maybe because of some bad setting up I have done, but Silent Hill became a whole new movie with the Axioms. I am really thankful to all of you guys helping me out on setting up my system, guess that there is no other place like Axiom forum! Jurassic Park 3 is also nice, the Tyrannosaur foot steps sounds awesome. After wall mounting the Qs8's I rerun audissey and still gives me the sub -12.0. I am gonna try what John suggested and I will post it to you guys! What if I just use manual set up and set all for +12.0. I know this is not good, but what is wrong with that? Shouldn't a louder sound be better?
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Re: My speakers arrived but...
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Re: My speakers arrived but...
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Turn off audyssey and try the manual setup settings I suggested. If you know where the sub control on the receiver is now this should take only but a few minutes to adjust it from -12 to +2 . This is a much easier troubleshooting method, takes less time and has less variables at play.
You have to figure out first if this is a settings issue or the sub. If we find out it is a settings issue then run audyssey after. All subwoofers are different and manufacturers are constantly changing the amp sections in them. Some might need a lot of voltage from the pre-out section, some might need very little and some are fine set at 0.
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Re: My speakers arrived but...
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Oh yes I did that. Forgot to post. After turning off the speakers I could listen to the sub working. But yesterday I wasn't hearing anything, maybe because of that -12. audissey set up.
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Re: My speakers arrived but...
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If you HAVE NOT tried what I suggested with manually increasing the -12 setting of the sub on receiver to +2. This can very well be the problem. Actually, I think it is most likely the problem on why you are getting little output.
I’m armed and I’m drinking. You don’t want to listen to advice from me, amigo.
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Re: My speakers arrived but...
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Here's one more twist for you to try out. In my Pioneer, I can set the sound retriever (Called S. RTRV) to ON and this enhances both the lower and the upper end. I don't know what it's called on the Denon. It's purpose is to enhance lossy formats where the bass and treble are somewhat missing. I use this setting at times when I feel a need for a little extra oomph.
Edit: I found it in the Denon 2310ci manual on page 52. It's called RESTORER. There are 3 modes and off. Mode 1 is for treble boost only. Mode 2 is for bass and treble. Mode 3 looks like it's for bass boost only.
It takes away from the flat settings, but it might supply the bass you're looking for, particularly in the M22's.
Last edited by CatBrat; 07/21/10 01:45 PM.
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Re: My speakers arrived but...
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An easy fix is to turn the gain knob on the sub down to 1/3 or 1/2 of max as per Axiom sub setup manual, rerun Audyssey, and then turn up the gain on the sub a bit to get to a desired level.
This is not the most scientific method but if you like to run your sub a little hot, no harm done.
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Re: My speakers arrived but...
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Oh yes I have seen something called restorer , but I didn't know what was for! I am gonna try that out!
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 Re: My speakers arrived but...
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If you HAVE NOT tried what I suggested with manually increasing the -12 setting of the sub on receiver to +2. This can very well be the problem. Actually, I think it is most likely the problem on why you are getting little output. I don't know why but yesterday even though I set +12 I wasn't listening to any bass, but today it is very nice. Another thing is that the bass is really different from my bad quality old sub, LOL. It looks like the bass is just part of a whole set of sound and not something separated. I think this might be one of the causes I am having a little trouble hearing the bass.
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Re: My speakers arrived but...
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It sounds like you have some fearsome bass nulls in your room.
Seroiusly, guys, with an EP350, he shouldn't have to use bass boost.
I'm guessing that the sub got set to -12 because of the sub volume being turned up to max.
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I also think so. That's why I am going to run Audissey again. Another question. If I am not mistaken usually center speakers are supposed to be louder than the FR and FL right? When I get my other M22 missing if I set all of them to plus 12.0 will the center have the same volume as the others front speakers or not?
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Seroiusly, guys, with an EP350, he shouldn't have to use bass boost. I find a little bass boost beneficial at times for those frequencies that the M22's can handle.
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Re: My speakers arrived but...
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htnut
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Well technically the centre speaker is supposed to be the same loudness as the mains, but if you like it louder then set it that way Even though you will have three identical M22's across your front, you can still end up with different levels coming out of each one due to placement and/or room interaction, so if you want them all to be the same level then let Audyssey set them or manually use an SPL meter.
Last edited by htnut; 07/21/10 02:57 PM.
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I also think so. That's why I am going to run Audissey again. Another question. If I am not mistaken usually center speakers are supposed to be louder than the FR and FL right? When I get my other M22 missing if I set all of them to plus 12.0 will the center have the same volume as the others front speakers or not? All your speakers should be equal in output. Additionally, setting them all to +12, is the same as setting them all to +0. Really though, they should be set to the +/- which gets them to reproduce a reference level signal at reference levels from your listening position. That means if reference is 85 dB, when you set your receiver's main volume knob to -0, and you're playing a signal which is recorded at reference level. When you sit in your listening position you should be hearing a sound pressure level of 85 dB. That's what the receiver's auto setup program does. It plays reference level signals, and adjust each individual speaker's trim up and down until the microphone is receiving the proper level. There isn't anything you can do to influence the proper level. Just make sure there's a clear path from the mic to each speaker, and that the speakers are functioning correctly. The receiver will do the rest. The only one where you have any influence is the sub-woofer. That's because it has its own volume knob. What you should do in this case, is run the setup, look to see what trim value the receiver picks as correct for the sub. Like yours said -12, that means you should turn the volume knob down on the sub. Then run the measurements again. What you're looking for is to get the trim level between 0 and +3. You don't want to go hotter than +3 for the sub output if you can help it. Some movies with a lot of bass may end up "clipping" the output signal of the receiver if you're listening at high levels. I try to get my receiver to adjust my sub's output trim to exactly 0 dB.
Pioneer PDP-5020FD, Marantz SR6011
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To follow up on Dr. House’s advice I would suggest that anyone using Audyssey start by turning it off and finding the best speaker placement first. Then when you do run Audyssey it should have less to correct allowing it to give better results.
I think Ken is right about the bass nulls. The T-Rex in J-park 3 is low bass (which he is getting) while the cannon shots in “Master and Commander” (which he’s not getting) are primarily mid-bass. I have the exact same situation in my room prior to using Charles’ SVS AS-EQ1.
@ Ichigo_Kurosaki - Are you feeling the deep rumbling bass but not the chest punch feeling of the mid-bass?
If so you can try playing around with your subwoofer positioning some more. One thing you can try is to move your subwoofer to right in front of your seating aiming at you. Mid-bass is best produced near-field though by moving it you will likely lose some of the deep bass rumble. I would try moving the subwoofer around a bit trying to find a balance between corner loading it and getting it near your seating. Once you find the best spot you can then rerun Audyssey and see if it helps smooth things out more.
Cheers,
Dean
3M80 2M22 6QS8 2M2 1EP500 Sony BDP-S590 Panny-7000 Onkyo-3007 Carada-134 Xbox Buttkicker AS-EQ1
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Re: My speakers arrived but...
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To follow up on Dr. House’s advice I would suggest that anyone using Audyssey start by turning it off and finding the best speaker placement first. Then when you do run Audyssey it should have less to correct allowing it to give better results.
I think Ken is right about the bass nulls. The T-Rex in J-park 3 is low bass (which he is getting) while the cannon shots in “Master and Commander” (which he’s not getting) are primarily mid-bass. I have the exact same situation in my room prior to using Charles’ SVS AS-EQ1.
@ Ichigo_Kurosaki - Are you feeling the deep rumbling bass but not the chest punch feeling of the mid-bass?
If so you can try playing around with your subwoofer positioning some more. One thing you can try is to move your subwoofer to right in front of your seating aiming at you. Mid-bass is best produced near-field though by moving it you will likely lose some of the deep bass rumble. I would try moving the subwoofer around a bit trying to find a balance between corner loading it and getting it near your seating. Once you find the best spot you can then rerun Audyssey and see if it helps smooth things out more.
Cheers,
Dean
What about placing it on my side? Would it work? That's kinda tiring movie this beast around. LOL I wonder how people do moving around the EP800.
Believe those who are seeking the truth. Doubt those who find it.
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Re: My speakers arrived but...
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I just rerun Audissey and got a +3.5 for sub now. The gain knob was around 1/3. I will have to wait till tomorrow so I can listen to it some more. One thing I was wondering is about the crossovers. Audissey is setting the fronts on 40 HZ and if I am not mistaken the surrounds on 60HZ. Is there any explanation for that?
Believe those who are seeking the truth. Doubt those who find it.
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Re: My speakers arrived but...
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Another thing I realized is that with sub turned off I hear the bass from the M22's more on the back corner of the room. Is it normal?
Believe those who are seeking the truth. Doubt those who find it.
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Re: My speakers arrived but...
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Do you like Lady Gaga? LoL. It has some nice bass. Today I tested the Lady Gaga CD. LOL That has some good bass. Didn't know that, since I usually get songs and videos from internet download there might be a great loss on sound quality.
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Re: My speakers arrived but...
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Yup, that's your bass nulls and whatnot.
I am the Doctor, and THIS... is my SPOON!
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Re: My speakers arrived but...
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What about placing it on my side? Would it work? That's kinda tiring movie this beast around. LOL I wonder how people do moving around the EP800.
It might work but I find putting the sub off to one side or another makes it easier to localize. Also to feel the mid bass punch in your chest it’s best to have the sub directly in front of you with nothing in between. The next best place would be just behind your seating. Off to the side can work but like I mentioned for some people it then becomes easy to tell were the subwoofer is. Have you tried the subwoofer crawl? http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AV3oLLMgS-MDoing this helped me find 2 of the 3 best subwoofer locations in my room. It took a $600 piece of equipment to find the 3rd so I’d say this crawl method works pretty well. I think Axiom should include a hand-truck in the EP800 accessories pack. Or just put wheels on the sucker. I can’t imagine lugging that thing around. My EP500 is bad enough.
3M80 2M22 6QS8 2M2 1EP500 Sony BDP-S590 Panny-7000 Onkyo-3007 Carada-134 Xbox Buttkicker AS-EQ1
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Re: My speakers arrived but...
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Finally got an answer from Axiom. I have been told some of the staff are on vacation so for that reason they weren't able to answer my e-mail till I send a message from Axiom website. It was recognized they made a mistake and are shipping my other M22 today! Pretty soon I will have my set complete!
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Re: My speakers arrived but...
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Good news!
I guess I owe the FEDEX guy an apology.
Fred
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Blujays1: Spending Fred's money one bottle at a time, no two... Oh crap!
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Re: My speakers arrived but...
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LOL You sure do. Although he looked very intrigued by that boxes he has never seen on his life. LOL He started chuckling when he brought the huge EP350 box. I wonder the size of the EP800.
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Re: My speakers arrived but...
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40 hz sounds a little low for the m22's... maybe try it at 80 and see if you notice a difference in sound. If I'm not mistaken, you can turn the crossover setting higher without effecting the audyssey results. Also, try turning audyseey OFF completely after calibration and see what you think. I find that my system sounds much better without it. I have tried to re-run it several times and have never been pleased with the results.
Many people love audyssey but I think axiom has generally recommended against it.
-David
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Re: My speakers arrived but...
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Also,
Keep in mind that there are two separate places that you make changes to the crossover settings for the mains in the denon (One for surround and one for stereo.)
-David
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Re: My speakers arrived but...
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I will check that out on the manual. Thanks
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Re: My speakers arrived but...
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Yeah I forget the exact details but I think the two locations are as follows:
to adjust the crossover for surround use during movies: Manual setup> crossover frequency. Try setting the FL and FR to 80 HZ.
For the Stereo setting it is not under manual setup. I believe it is in Audio Setup->2Ch direct/stereo->crossover. See what they are both set at and try moving up to 80 hz if they are not already there.
-David
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Re: My speakers arrived but...
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Thanks! I am gonna try that. Do you know what could be the reason Audissey is setting them on 40 HZ?
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Re: My speakers arrived but...
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Ichigo, that +3.5 looks better than -12(remember though, there's no "gain" knob, it's a volume control). You said in an earlier post that you had the impression that the sub wasn't a separate sound, just part of the whole picture. That's the way that it's supposed to be: when correctly calibrated the impression should be that the sub isn't working but the speakers are putting out more bass. I have mine calibrated that way, but many want to run their sub several dBs "hot" so that they can "hear" what they've paid good money for.
-----------------------------------
Enjoy the music, not the equipment.
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Re: My speakers arrived but...
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I guess I am used to crap sub. LOL
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Re: My speakers arrived but...
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After moving the sub to a position in front of me it helped on the boomy bass I got when set them on the corner but I guess mid bass is still the same. Or at least no change perceived.
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Re: My speakers arrived but...
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If you’re not able to find a place in the room where you get smooth bass, both the mid-bass punch and s deep rumble but not boomy then I think it’s most likely the acoustics of your room. I have the same problem as it sounds like you are having. In order to get the mid-bass punch I like for things like cannons and most music I have to turn my subwoofer up so high that the lower bass is overpowering and boomy. Here is a graph of my EP500s response in my room. Note that the normal frequency response of the EP500 is flat but because of room modes caused by the sound reflecting around the room it looks like this. See the before graph: http://www.axiomaudio.com/boards/ubbthre...true#Post306124You can see that there is a large peak in the low bass and a bigger dip in part of the mid-bass region. And this is with the EP500 in the best location I could find. No amount of repositioning or room treatments can help this much because these modes will be excited no matter where I put the subwoofer. Just some places are a little better or worse than others. If you look at the after graph you can see how much flatter the frequency response is. Now I can have both a deep bass rumble and mid-bass punch w/o the deep bass overpowering everything else. (well at least till Charles wants his EQ1 back or Sean buys a “real computer” ). If it turns out that the room is the problem the best possible two ways to deal with it are to try out dual subwoofers. IMO this is the best option since it should help even out the bass across all seats. Though be aware that it doesn’t always work as in my case of an “L” shaped room. The other option which I’m using in the other thread is using EQ. the problem with EQ is that is really only works well for one spot. Although some EQ systems like Audyssey (the SVS AS-EQ1 uses a version of it) purport to work over multiple seats they really work best when used only for one seat. Not that they can’t help over multiple seat but sometimes they can make one seat better while making another one worse. Some people use room treatments but for frequencies 200Hz and below they start becoming very large and also less effective as the frequency drops. I’m not saying that it’s time for you to consider going one of these routes since I think you could tinker with your setup for some time just to make sure you can’t find a satisfactory position and setting for your subwoofer and receiver. Cheers, Dean
3M80 2M22 6QS8 2M2 1EP500 Sony BDP-S590 Panny-7000 Onkyo-3007 Carada-134 Xbox Buttkicker AS-EQ1
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Re: My speakers arrived but...
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There are TubeTraps that absorb down to 25 Hz (those being 2' (.6 m) in diameter. But they start out expensive, and quickly approach insanity. So it pays to only get them as large as needed. Also to be truly effective, they need to go from floor to ceiling in all the corners of the room. So Dean, you forgot to build the triangle: Small, efficient at low frequencies, inexpensive. Pick two.
Pioneer PDP-5020FD, Marantz SR6011
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-Chris
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Re: My speakers arrived but...
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From my reading, no personal experience mind you, everything except the literature from the acoustic treatment makers indicates the bass 200Hz and lower is better handled with EQ than room treatments in most cases do to the size of the traps needed and the difficulty in targeting the offending frequencies only. Though I have considered using them my options are limited.
The three corners in my actual room are doorways, front door, arcadia door and bedroom door. Traps would block these. In the adjoining dinning room and kitchen one corner is the door to the garage another is partly blocked by kitchen cabinets leaving one out of 6 corners that is “trappable.”
I have inquired a couple places including here about the effectiveness of putting traps along the horizontal corners, wall ceiling interface, but got nothing very informative in response.
I would love to try some bass traps if I could get any feedback on whether using them horizontally would be worth the effort since traps should help the whole room and not just the sweet spot. However, I’d hate to put the money and effort into doing it just to find out that like dual subwoofers it doesn’t work in my situation. Luckily thanks to Sean I got off cheap on that one. And Thanks to Charles I know that EQ does work at least for the sweet spot.
Any advice or recommendations on traps is welcome understanding that for 5 of the 6 vertical corners traps would block doorways.
3M80 2M22 6QS8 2M2 1EP500 Sony BDP-S590 Panny-7000 Onkyo-3007 Carada-134 Xbox Buttkicker AS-EQ1
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Re: My speakers arrived but...
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Founder, Axiom Upgrade Club shareholder in the making
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I've also been wondering about using bass traps horizontally.
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Re: My speakers arrived but...
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If you have traps, vertically in each of the four corners of the room, you'll be absorbing pressure waves forming the modes for the length and width of the room, but not height.
If you can play traps around the entire perimeter of the wall to ceiling interface you'll be trapping height, width, and depth. Albeit, the width and depth with half the efficiency of the floor to ceiling corner traps.
If you can also do the corner where the walls meet the floor (maybe not everywhere, but 50% or more), you'll be getting all three major modes better than you can with just the traditional corners.
Triangles made from 2'x4' rock wool, cut in half and than diagonally would work really well in this application. You'd just need a lot of it, though the cost wouldn't even start to approach that of the manufactured TubeTraps.
Pioneer PDP-5020FD, Marantz SR6011
Axiom M5HP, VP160HP, QS8
Sony PS4, surround backs
-Chris
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Re: My speakers arrived but...
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Yup, that's your bulls nuts and what not. I read this at first... Long day here at work 
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