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#32417 - 01/29/04 02:37 PM Saving space!
CatnFox Offline
newbie

Registered: 01/29/04
Posts: 3
Loc: CA, USA
I've been an avid observer of this board ever since I decided to buy speakers. I ended up buying M60's, no need to say more! I never posted a question here, I never had to, all I had to do was look thru the previous posts! You guys are great!

My question, which is more important? keeping the distance between the speakers as far as possible or keeping the speakers as far away from the corners? If I had to giveup one of these, which one would be a better trade off?

I'm moving into a new place and its 19 X 12, and 9ft high. I can setup anyway I want, any suggestions? I have M60's driven by Denon 2803. I'm still penny-pinching for my sub, center and quads.

Thanks,
Mad.

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#32418 - 01/29/04 02:57 PM Re: Saving space!
pmbuko Offline
shareholder in the making

Registered: 04/02/03
Posts: 16437
Loc: Ben Lomond, California
Since you can set up your room however you want, I'd first try putting the speakers on the longer wall about 10 feet apart, a foot or so away from the wall, and toed-in a few degrees. Set up your listening position so that you are about 10 feet away from each speaker.

This setup keeps your speakers far enough from the corners so you don't get any horn-loading effect. Keep in mind that it's only a starting point. I suggest moving your stereo equipment into the living room first and try any placement options you can think of until you find the one that's the best compromise between livability and listenability. Then move the rest of your furniture in.

Hmmm, but after you move the furniture in, the sound will reflect/absorb differently around the room so you'll have to start all over.
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#32419 - 01/29/04 03:45 PM Re: Saving space!
tomtuttle Offline
axiomite

Registered: 06/20/03
Posts: 8488
Loc: Tacoma
What Peter said.

There really is no substitute for tinkering around and trying different options in your own, personal space.

My experience was that I liked getting my M60's out of the corners, and that doing so while fiddling with the toe-in angle made a big difference in the imaging.
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#32420 - 01/29/04 05:15 PM Re: Saving space!
CatnFox Offline
newbie

Registered: 01/29/04
Posts: 3
Loc: CA, USA
Thanks. BUT, the problem is, the door to the room is dead center. So, I'll have to move the system either side of the door. In which case, one of my speakers will be in a corner.

I can put them 10 feet apart, and a feet to spare on the corner side of the speaker. Or I can move them together a bit closer, may be a 7-8 ft and provide more space to the corner speaker.

I'm going to try both, but wanted to know, in general, which one works better.

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#32421 - 01/29/04 05:38 PM Re: Saving space!
JohnK Offline
shareholder in the making

Registered: 05/11/02
Posts: 10623
Mad, in general you should be more concerned with having enough separation between the speakers rather than concern about being too close to a wall. You should, however, try to make the distances to walls significantly different, to help minimize the influence on certain frequencies. For example, if a speaker is one foot from a side wall, it could be three feet from the wall behind it.
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#32422 - 01/30/04 09:51 AM Re: Saving space!
austinbirdman Offline
veteran

Registered: 12/05/03
Posts: 185
Loc: The only place to live in Texa...
Based on my own experiments with my M60s, I'm thinking your short wall will be the better place to put the M60s, because of the benefits of sitting far enough back to get a good soundstange.

My set-up is in a 14'x18' room (open at the back to adjoining kitchen), with the speakers 8' feet apart exactly along the 14' side, ie, across the room from the opening. I would like to place them 10' apart, but cannot easily get them more than 8' apart because there's a door in one corner of the 14' wall. The speakers are 1'+ from the back wall (very important IMHO) and toed in slightly. The room has hellish sliding glass doors on EACH side wall, but drape curtains along each 6' door have tamed them perfectly, and the quasi-translucent yet thick drapes block out the neighbors as well.

Key item, for me: the preferred seating is at least 10' back from the speakers. We have a little couch on wheels that we roll back and forth from about 12' back to 9' or 10', for movies and music.

This set-up works great for us. I think it's important to be back from the speakers. It seems like this would be hard to acheive if you placed yours along the longer wall at a greater distance, because in your room it will be hard to sit far enough back from them, given that you'll want the speakers 1'+ out from the wall, AND realistically one is not always seated along the opposite wall ... you move around etc.

I don't have the chance to experiment with corners, because of the door along the speaker wall ... but you may as well try that out and see. Suspect it might be too boomy, but really have no idea.

But tinker and let us know.

Birdman
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#32423 - 01/30/04 06:41 PM Re: Saving space!
CatnFox Offline
newbie

Registered: 01/29/04
Posts: 3
Loc: CA, USA
John, 3 feet away from the wall behind ? ..mmmm thats lot of space. how significantly different should the distances be? A foot? more.. I'll try this but how is this going to affect and what should I look for??

Birdman, so far I have tried only separating the speakers apart. I'll try what you suggested! I wish I had a couch on wheels. It would immensely help me right now!

From your point, I think I need to clear up a misconception of mine, so, theoretically if we had the speakers 10 ft apart in an empty feild, what would be the approximate seating distance to get the best sound stage?

Mad.

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#32424 - 01/30/04 10:21 PM Re: Saving space!
JohnK Offline
shareholder in the making

Registered: 05/11/02
Posts: 10623
Differences in the distance from the center of the woofer to the floor and two nearest walls should be as much as possible(room practicalities control)to smooth peaks and valleys the wall and floor reinforcement causes in the upper bass between about 100-200Hz.
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#32425 - 01/31/04 12:06 AM Re: Saving space!
chesseroo Offline
axiomite

Registered: 05/13/02
Posts: 5171
Loc: western canada
CatnFox,
I posted this awhile ago (see the link if you are interested in the background), but i will put up the image again. This is an idea of the Golden Ratio room which i used as a basis to start placement of my speakers.


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#32426 - 01/31/04 03:52 AM Re: Saving space!
pmbuko Offline
shareholder in the making

Registered: 04/02/03
Posts: 16437
Loc: Ben Lomond, California
So what you're saying is, basically, 1 1 2 3 5 8 13 21 34 ?
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