VP180..wait to buy it if..
|
Joined: Feb 2007
Posts: 602
aficionado
|
OP
aficionado
Joined: Feb 2007
Posts: 602 |
you can't afford the $720USD price tag, WAIT, SAVE, then BUY IT!! The $300 price difference between the 150 and 180 is ABSOLUTELY worth it.
I just got VP180 last night, and I couldn't wait to test it out (until I moved). So I just stuck the cardboard-foam under the speaker and place it in front of my TV. So while the placement is slightly different, the sound nevertheless was outstanding!
Everything sounded much better. It MOST DEFINITELY is worth the extra $300. So don't hesitate about getting it if you're on the fence.
-- Denon 4520, EPIC80/500/VP180 Speakers
|
|
|
Re: VP180..wait to buy it if..
|
Joined: Dec 2008
Posts: 6,928
axiomite
|
axiomite
Joined: Dec 2008
Posts: 6,928 |
I have to admit, sitting on the fence gets uncomfortable after a while....
Half of communication is listening. You can't listen with your mouth.
|
|
|
Re: VP180..wait to buy it if..
|
Joined: Jul 2006
Posts: 12,077 Likes: 7
Founder, Axiom Upgrade Club shareholder in the making
|
Founder, Axiom Upgrade Club shareholder in the making
Joined: Jul 2006
Posts: 12,077 Likes: 7 |
|
|
|
Re: VP180..wait to buy it if..
|
Joined: Dec 2008
Posts: 6,928
axiomite
|
axiomite
Joined: Dec 2008
Posts: 6,928 |
Half of communication is listening. You can't listen with your mouth.
|
|
|
Re: VP180..wait to buy it if..
|
Joined: Jul 2006
Posts: 12,077 Likes: 7
Founder, Axiom Upgrade Club shareholder in the making
|
Founder, Axiom Upgrade Club shareholder in the making
Joined: Jul 2006
Posts: 12,077 Likes: 7 |
|
|
|
Re: VP180..wait to buy it if..
|
Joined: Jul 2008
Posts: 912 Likes: 4
aficionado
|
aficionado
Joined: Jul 2008
Posts: 912 Likes: 4 |
With the soundtracks coming out of Blu-Ray movies and music nowadays, NOTHING can beat the sound of full range speakers across the front. The VP180 is just the final link in the chain of reaching audio nirvana especially used in conjunction with M80s or 60s as your L/Rs.
|
|
|
Re: VP180..wait to buy it if..
|
Joined: Jul 2006
Posts: 12,077 Likes: 7
Founder, Axiom Upgrade Club shareholder in the making
|
Founder, Axiom Upgrade Club shareholder in the making
Joined: Jul 2006
Posts: 12,077 Likes: 7 |
The only reason I wouldn't try a VP180 is if I decide I can make the space for an M80 as my center. I just have to figure out how big of a screen I can manage. I should go calculate that now so I'm no longer wondering.
|
|
|
Re: VP180..wait to buy it if..
|
Joined: Sep 2008
Posts: 4,116
connoisseur
|
connoisseur
Joined: Sep 2008
Posts: 4,116 |
Nice to hear that you are happy with your purchase Hansang.
Enjoy.
I’m armed and I’m drinking. You don’t want to listen to advice from me, amigo.
-Max Payne
|
|
|
Re: VP180..wait to buy it if..
|
Joined: Jul 2006
Posts: 12,077 Likes: 7
Founder, Axiom Upgrade Club shareholder in the making
|
Founder, Axiom Upgrade Club shareholder in the making
Joined: Jul 2006
Posts: 12,077 Likes: 7 |
The only reason I wouldn't try a VP180 is if I decide I can make the space for an M80 as my center. I just have to figure out how big of a screen I can manage. I should go calculate that now so I'm no longer wondering. Hmm, there may be hope for an M80. Using an M80, I can manage around an 80" diagonal screen. I can have my front row of seating at around 8.5' away, and my second row at about 12.5' away. If I'm using the calculators right, that should be pretty close to ideal, right? At least now I know I can do a vertical center despite the lower-than-normal ceiling in the basement. I'm still curious about the VP180, though. I would love to hear one versus an M80 for a center.
|
|
|
Re: VP180..wait to buy it if..
|
Joined: Aug 2004
Posts: 313
devotee
|
devotee
Joined: Aug 2004
Posts: 313 |
Everything sounded much better. It MOST DEFINITELY is worth the extra $300. So don't hesitate about getting it if you're on the fence.
I definitely agree.. the VP150 was never meant to be with the M80. I moved the VP150 with the M60 and it's a perfect match. The VP180 blends nicely with the M80. I checked the output of both M80 and VP180 with a spectrum analyzer and there is a difference. Seems like the M80 go lower and are able to go higher with the same test tone. The lower and higher frequencies were cutoff with the VP180. It may be related to crossover configurations, my m80 are v2 and VP180 is v3.
|
|
|
Re: VP180..wait to buy it if..
|
Joined: Jun 2008
Posts: 769
aficionado
|
aficionado
Joined: Jun 2008
Posts: 769 |
I agree on the VP150 vs VP180 comment. The only thing that would probably be better is M80 center but it's very hard to accommodate for most of us so I would say that in that case, the VP180 is as close to perfect as it can be.
Bruno M80s/VP180/QS8s/EP600/AVR-890 ------------------------------------ "The problem is choice..."
|
|
|
Re: VP180..wait to buy it if..
|
Joined: Sep 2004
Posts: 5,422
axiomite
|
axiomite
Joined: Sep 2004
Posts: 5,422 |
So the VP180 is great with the M80s, and the VP150 is good for the M60s... Any reason to fork out all that extra dough to go from a VP150 to a VP180 in I have M60 fronts? No more trade in program, and I don't think that I would get a whole lot for a used VP150 (maybe, I guess) in Axiom Cash....
Farewell - June 4, 2020
|
|
|
Re: VP180..wait to buy it if..
|
Joined: Dec 2006
Posts: 3,569
connoisseur
|
connoisseur
Joined: Dec 2006
Posts: 3,569 |
Or you could hold out (have them design one for you) for a VP160.
3M80 2M22 6QS8 2M2 1EP500 Sony BDP-S590 Panny-7000 Onkyo-3007 Carada-134 Xbox Buttkicker AS-EQ1
|
|
|
Re: VP180..wait to buy it if..
|
Joined: Jul 2005
Posts: 738
aficionado
|
aficionado
Joined: Jul 2005
Posts: 738 |
Sorry guys, but I have to dissagree with the 150 vs 180 conclusion here.
I owned a 150 for over 5 years and think is it an excellent C. speaker. The only issue I had with it was it sounded a little thin with male dialogue. The VP180 solves that problem.
I don't think the matching the 150 with m60's is going to cure the male voice issue. Match this with any speaker from any company and you will still have a thin sounding male voice.
paul
Axiom M80, VP180, Qs8, EP500 Epson 3020 Rotel RB-880 Denon AVR-990
|
|
|
Re: VP180..wait to buy it if..
|
Joined: Sep 2008
Posts: 4,116
connoisseur
|
connoisseur
Joined: Sep 2008
Posts: 4,116 |
Or you could hold out (have them design one for you) for a VP160. Yeah. The matching driver complement to a M60 would be a WM^TW design too.
I’m armed and I’m drinking. You don’t want to listen to advice from me, amigo.
-Max Payne
|
|
|
Re: VP180..wait to buy it if..
|
Joined: May 2003
Posts: 18,044
shareholder in the making
|
shareholder in the making
Joined: May 2003
Posts: 18,044 |
The MT/WM design: the ribbon tweeter of center channels.
I am the Doctor, and THIS... is my SPOON!
|
|
|
Re: VP180..wait to buy it if..
|
Joined: Jun 2008
Posts: 769
aficionado
|
aficionado
Joined: Jun 2008
Posts: 769 |
I would still use a VP180 with the M60s. As mentioned, the VP150 sounded thin. The other problem that I had was for some concerts where the bass guitar comes mostly from the center, it was very weak. It is just a better speaker overall if you can accomodate the size. I had both at the same time in my house and for me, it was worth the extra $300, for others, it might not.
Bruno M80s/VP180/QS8s/EP600/AVR-890 ------------------------------------ "The problem is choice..."
|
|
|
Re: VP180..wait to buy it if..
|
Joined: Dec 2006
Posts: 3,569
connoisseur
|
connoisseur
Joined: Dec 2006
Posts: 3,569 |
I have to agree based on my tests of the VP150 and M80 as center speakers. I owned both for over 2 years and did extensive comparisons in two different rooms and the results were always the same. The VP150 center sounded thin and often hollow compared to the M80. Most noticeable were the VP150s weekness in bass and thinness or sometimes nasal quality in male voices. Neither I nor any of my friends I tested it on need to A/B compare them to hear the difference it was so obvious.
While the M80 isn’t the same layout as the VP180 it has the same drive complement and likely similar sonic characteristics except for dispersion so I think the comparison between those two and the VP150 are valid.
I’m just happy to see how many people are now agreeing that compared to the M80s the VP150 is out of it’s league.
3M80 2M22 6QS8 2M2 1EP500 Sony BDP-S590 Panny-7000 Onkyo-3007 Carada-134 Xbox Buttkicker AS-EQ1
|
|
|
Re: VP180..wait to buy it if..
|
Joined: Jan 2004
Posts: 13,840 Likes: 13
shareholder in the making
|
shareholder in the making
Joined: Jan 2004
Posts: 13,840 Likes: 13 |
I disagree with everyone, the VP150 is waaaaay better then the VP180. Of course, I don't own a VP180 yet, so basing my opinion on a hunch.
M80s VP180 4xM22ow 4xM3ic EP600 2xEP350 AnthemAVM60 Outlaw7700 EmoA500 Epson5040UB FluanceRT85
|
|
|
Re: VP180..wait to buy it if..
|
Joined: May 2003
Posts: 18,044
shareholder in the making
|
shareholder in the making
Joined: May 2003
Posts: 18,044 |
Personally, I think the VP100 is the best center speaker that's ever been made.
I am the Doctor, and THIS... is my SPOON!
|
|
|
Re: VP180..wait to buy it if..
|
Joined: Jul 2006
Posts: 12,077 Likes: 7
Founder, Axiom Upgrade Club shareholder in the making
|
Founder, Axiom Upgrade Club shareholder in the making
Joined: Jul 2006
Posts: 12,077 Likes: 7 |
My phantom center will eff you up!
|
|
|
Re: VP180..wait to buy it if..
|
Joined: Jun 2003
Posts: 8,488
axiomite
|
axiomite
Joined: Jun 2003
Posts: 8,488 |
bibere usque ad hilaritatem
|
|
|
Re: VP180..wait to buy it if..
|
Joined: Jun 2007
Posts: 4,357
connoisseur
|
connoisseur
Joined: Jun 2007
Posts: 4,357 |
I disagree with everyone, the VP150 is waaaaay better then the VP180. Of course, I don't own a VP180 yet, so basing my opinion on a hunch. Personally, I think the VP100 is the best center speaker that's ever been made.
The only reasonable argument for owning a gun is to protect yourself from the police.
|
|
|
Re: VP180..wait to buy it if..
|
Joined: Aug 2010
Posts: 31
enthusiast
|
enthusiast
Joined: Aug 2010
Posts: 31 |
I have seen this opinion (VP180>>>VP150) expressed enough times that there must be truth to it, but I'm still a little confused why this is.
For the most part people respect the M22s, and I've heard it stated more than once, that M22s when properly integrated with a good sub come close to the sound of M80s (at least to a certain volume level, in reasonably-sized rooms).
The VP150 has a third 5.25" driver, yet many say that it sounds weak/thin on things like male vocals. I would think that if it set up with a sub and the right crossover settings, it should (like the M22) sound pretty good.
I do understand that the M22s are ported, and assume that this is the primary difference. The M22s are also spec'd to reach 25 Hz lower than the VP150. Can the extra driver and added efficiency not make up for bass-reflex design, even when properly integrated with a quality sub to cover everything below 85 Hz (or higher)?
Last edited by speedbump; 10/25/10 08:39 PM.
|
|
|
Re: VP180..wait to buy it if..
|
Joined: Dec 2003
Posts: 10,420
shareholder in the making
|
shareholder in the making
Joined: Dec 2003
Posts: 10,420 |
I do understand that the M22s are ported, and assume that this is the primary difference. The M22s are also spec'd to reach 25 Hz lower than the VP150. Can the extra driver and added efficiency not make up for bass-reflex design, even when properly integrated with a quality sub to cover everything below 85 Hz (or higher)? Possibly if the enclosre of the VP150 was bigger, the way it is right now I think it comes down to some of the harmonics the ported designs have over the sealed VP100/150. The port just allows male vocals to resonate/react with the room more. The 150 has an edge over the VP100 and the M22 has the edge over the VP150 but next to the M80s even the M22 sounds a little thin with male dialogue. The best option is still another M80 which most of us are not able to use, thus the VP180 narrows the margin.
Jason M80 v2 VP160 v3 QS8 v2 PB13 Ultra Denon 3808 Samsung 85" Q70
|
|
|
Re: VP180..wait to buy it if..
|
Joined: Mar 2002
Posts: 3,749 Likes: 37
connoisseur
|
connoisseur
Joined: Mar 2002
Posts: 3,749 Likes: 37 |
Speedbump, are you a mind-reader or something?
So, as I read this thread last evening while listening to a movie on my VP150 CC system, I thought to myself - "you know, this center channel speaker integrates so nicely with my 15" subwoofer that it sure sounds pretty much like a full range speaker."
On the other hand, if the frequency response curve is ruler flat for the VP150 and also for the VP180, why do they sound different at normal listening levels? Could it be that frequency response curves are not really determinative of a speaker's sound quality?
Oh the horror for the positivist-reductionists among us.
Enjoy the Music. Trust your ears. Laugh at Folks Who Claim to Know it All.
|
|
|
Re: VP180..wait to buy it if..
|
Joined: Aug 2004
Posts: 313
devotee
|
devotee
Joined: Aug 2004
Posts: 313 |
Personally, I think the VP100 is the best center speaker that's ever been made. The Axiom AX1.2 eclipse the vp100! I have it in my gym! :-p try to get better than that! :-) pic, I have the center and bookshelves AX1.5 ! :-) http://www.axiomaudio.com/images/HomeTheater_AX.jpg
|
|
|
Re: VP180..wait to buy it if..
|
Joined: Sep 2008
Posts: 4,116
connoisseur
|
connoisseur
Joined: Sep 2008
Posts: 4,116 |
Speedbump, are you a mind-reader or something?
So, as I read this thread last evening while listening to a movie on my VP150 CC system, I thought to myself - "you know, this center channel speaker integrates so nicely with my 15" subwoofer that it sure sounds pretty much like a full range speaker."
On the other hand, if the frequency response curve is ruler flat for the VP150 and also for the VP180, why do they sound different at normal listening levels? Could it be that frequency response curves are not really determinative of a speaker's sound quality?
Oh the horror for the positivist-reductionists among us.
The on-axis frequency response will tell you some but the VP150 and VP180 are apples and oranges comparisons. Different design - bigger cabinet, crossover, driver complements, and one is a full range speaker that can be crossed over to a sub much lower than 80hz while the other cannot. With that many changes the tonal and overall sound/performance differences of the two speakers would be different for sure (more than what would be shown with the on-axis response) and each will perform much more differently off-axis. Axiom does not post its off-axis response curves for either model but for a center channel (any speaker for that matter) off-axis is super important on the overall perceived sound quality. Add in a spectral decay plot at the very least for each speaker and you will have a pretty good idea how a speaker will perform.
I’m armed and I’m drinking. You don’t want to listen to advice from me, amigo.
-Max Payne
|
|
|
Re: VP180..wait to buy it if..
|
Joined: Aug 2004
Posts: 313
devotee
|
devotee
Joined: Aug 2004
Posts: 313 |
I have seen this opinion (VP180>>>VP150) expressed enough times that there must be truth to it, but I'm still a little confused why this is.
For the most part people respect the M22s, and I've heard it stated more than once, that M22s when properly integrated with a good sub come close to the sound of M80s (at least to a certain volume level, in reasonably-sized rooms). I had M22TI + VP150 + sub +QS8 in my living room and no, I don't think they come close to the M80. In a very small room, maybe. My wife would cry if I swapped the M80 for the m22.. We dont listen at whispering level, so for us, the M80 is another league.
|
|
|
Re: VP180..wait to buy it if..
|
Joined: May 2002
Posts: 10,654
shareholder in the making
|
shareholder in the making
Joined: May 2002
Posts: 10,654 |
M22s are fully capable of sound levels at typical home listening distances which meet "reference" levels set for movies(too high for most listener's tastes). For music sources which have no established reference levels and can vary widely between different discs, similar levels to movie reference can be used if desired, subject to concern about hearing damage.
-----------------------------------
Enjoy the music, not the equipment.
|
|
|
Re: VP180..wait to buy it if..
|
Joined: Aug 2004
Posts: 6,379 Likes: 7
axiomite
|
axiomite
Joined: Aug 2004
Posts: 6,379 Likes: 7 |
On the other hand, if the frequency response curve is ruler flat for the VP150 and also for the VP180, why do they sound different at normal listening levels? Could it be that frequency response curves are not really determinative of a speaker's sound quality? My understanding was that both response curves were pretty flat within the frequency range of the VP150, but outside that range (ie lower frequencies) the VP180 was still pretty flat while the VP150 was... um... less flat
M60ti, VP180, QS8, M2ti, EP500, PC-Plus 20-39 M5HP, M40ti, Sierra-1 LFR1100 active, ADA1500-4 and -8
|
|
|
Re: VP180..wait to buy it if..
|
Joined: Dec 2003
Posts: 10,420
shareholder in the making
|
shareholder in the making
Joined: Dec 2003
Posts: 10,420 |
On the other hand, if the frequency response curve is ruler flat for the VP150 and also for the VP180, why do they sound different at normal listening levels? Could it be that frequency response curves are not really determinative of a speaker's sound quality?
Actually the FR curves do tell about a speakers SQ, if the FR is not linear or near flat then you can be assured of hearing a slightly (or worse) colored sound. The M3 is a perfect example, It has a different sound to it than the M22s and the M3's FR shows that difference, a dip in the lower midrange and a slightly elevated upper bass hump. Having said that, FR curves are not the end all be all of how a speaker will sound, as has been mentioned, there are many other factors involved and the absolute worst factor is the listener's own preferences that can not be accounted for via a FR graph. But the FR graph will give you an idea of how much the basic speaker design is influencing what you are hearing.
Jason M80 v2 VP160 v3 QS8 v2 PB13 Ultra Denon 3808 Samsung 85" Q70
|
|
|
Forums16
Topics24,945
Posts442,484
Members15,617
|
Most Online2,082 Jan 22nd, 2020
|
|
0 members (),
1,228
guests, and
6
robots. |
Key:
Admin,
Global Mod,
Mod
|
|
|
|