Axiom Home Page Forums General Discussion Advice from Axiom Owners Speakers were delivered today.

I found 5 boxes in my driveway today. I figured I would have to sign for them, guess not. Only disappointment was the stands for my QS8's weren't there. I called Noreen at Axiom and she said they were on backorder and would probably go out on Monday,!

Set the M80's to large, crossed over at 80 hz, and they blend well with my Epic Sentinel sub. VP150 sits on a shelf right under the TV. I did manual MCACC, using RS meter, on my Pio Elite for now until I get the stands. I like what I hear so far - clear, crisp, articulate, detailed sound with music. Haven't done a movie yet. Once my stands get here I'm really looking forward to getting the QS8's up and running.

The m80's would not be crossed over if set to large..

Glad your enjoying your speakers..

Most folks set the mains to 'small' with a subwoofer so that the sub can handle the LFE chores below the crossover point.

Congrats!

Congrats, GTZ. I remember playing my M80s for the first time after bringing them home and being amazed at the deep punchy bass they were able to generate.

GT, enjoy. Yes, as Randy pointed out, if you set the M80s "large" they have to play full-range, not crossed over. Suggest that the "small" setting with maybe a 60Hz or 80Hz crossover be used.

OK, I'll give that a try. My Elite goes from 80 to 50, doesn't have me 60 as an option. What do you think of setting them to large and the sub to 'yes plus'? It was getting late last night and I was using a 2 way bookshelf for fronts before. Definately a learning curve here. Thanks, I welcome any and all advice.

I have my m80's set to small and use a 40 hz crossover for music and 60 hz for movies.

Edit: I think I am using 60 hz for both now, i don't remember.

Pioneer's crossover point is universal for all speakers. The QS8s won't do 50 Hz very convincingly. So you need to use the 80 Hz setting.

The general recommendation is it set all speakers to Small, regardless of their frequency response range, as long as the sub can go lower.

But you might want to try the Small, 80 Hz, with the sub set to Yes Plus. (Large with Yes Plus doesn't do anything.) Try both the plain Yes, and the Plus setting to see which you like better.

EDIT: Now that I think about it, I may be wrong about the Small vs. Large setting required for the Plus. I'm no at home right now, so I can't check.

Your right, the only way I can do 'yes plus' is with the fronts set to Large. As soon as I change to Small the sub setting defaults back to 'yes' only.

Using the Large + setting may help smooth out the bass in the room or it may become boomy, so try it and run it which ever way you find sounds the best.

GT, my view on that is that for the best results from the bass management processing in HT receivers, all speakers should be set "small" regardless of physical size. This allows the sub to handle what it does best and takes some of the low bass burden off the mains, to allow the higher frequencies to be played a bit cleaner. A "plus" type of setting shouldn't be used.

OK, I'll set the M80's to small and leave the sub at yes, no 'Plus'. Thanks guys. As I stated earlier, these are my first towers so there is a learning curve here. I appreciate your help, suggestions, and input in getting the best sound out of my new system.

GT

Just to clarify or confuse, once the mains are set to small you won't be able to use the plus setting anyway, even if it allows it to be selected, my Denon does this, the programming won't allow it to work that way, the small setting overrides the plus sub setting.

I have to disagree with this reasoning (sorry JK :)). Go with what sounds best in your room. The whole purpose in buying towers is that they are capable of handling the extra "burden" of the lower frequencies. That's what the extra 2 6.5" drivers are designed for. If you automatically cut off the low frequencies without even checking out the sound, your are neutering your M80's IMHO. You might as well have saved substantial $$$ and bought bookshelves.

For what it's worth, I have my M60s crossed over at 40Hz, because I want more bass sources to help smooth the response in my problematic room.

Jason, no confusion here, my Pio Elite acts the same way as your Denon.



Ouch, wouldn't want to neuter my M80's. I tend to agree with you on letting the extra drivers handle some of the lower frequencies. I went with the 80's over the 22's because of the extra drivers. Like I said, learning curve for me here. I'll have to play with both settings and see what sounds better to me. Thanks

There is no "cutoff" at the crossover frequency as sweetspot mentions, there is a natural slope or hand off to the sub. The sub, which "moves" more air than 2 6.5" woofers, does a much better job with this "burden" mentioned. Even at a 60-80hz crossover and set to small, the 60's and 80's will still be putting out potent bass. Small has nothing to do with the physical size of the speakers, it has to do more with having a sub in the mix and the speakers ability to play below the crossover point designated.

Here is a fine blog article by Dr Kriakakis which discusses concepts even Dr Holman (founder of THX) has discussed for decades.

http://www.audyssey.com/blog/2009/05/small-vs-large/

Well, it's more like 4 6.5" woofers

That article is very interesting, thanks for the link. For movies, I agree 80 Hz is a a good starting point, not the be all end all. (funny that it is written by Audyssey yet when I run the Audyssey set-up, fronts are always indicated as "large")

For 2 channel (direct/stereo) listening, I find the 40 hz setting with fronts as large and sub set to mains+large works best in my room anyways.

If the Pioneer elite receiver allows you to have seperate settings for stereo and multichannel, I'd recommend giving that a try as I find the soundstage for music is more natural with as much sound coming from the fronts as possible. The towers have an advantage for 2-channel listening over the sat/sub combo I find them easier to integrate with the sub.


Have fun!!

Thanks for the link sirquack.

Audyssey doesn't set the speakers to small or large, that is the receicer mfg decision. Audyssey does look for the -3dB point for each speaker in your room and reports that back to the receiver during setup, which is why my m80's were reported as large, but I still change them to small and use 60hz if I recall.

Yes, the "large" result following the Audyssey measurements isn't at all "funny" if the process is understood. As Dr. Kyriakakis has made clear many times, including in the linked article and first reply to the comments, Audyssey never makes a "large" setting and "most certainly" never a "plus" one. This is determined by what the receiver manufacturer and/or the user choose to do with the measurements. The consistent recommendation has been to set all speakers small, with a suitable crossover typically at 80Hz or higher, and not follow a flawed concept of forcing the mains to play the very low bass even with a sub available.

Among other problems, having both the mains and the sub play the same frequencies leads to a more irregular(not smoother)bass response at those bass frequencies where the separations between them result in nulls(half-wavelength)or peaks(quarter-wavelength).

Well I spent some time today going back and forth between large and small. I tried it with both music and movies. I even tried sitting in different spots, wife thought I was nuts. I like the sound better when I set the fronts to small and left my Elite at 80Hz.
Now I'm looking forward for the stands to be delivered so I can get my QS8's set up.

Thanks all for the guidance.

Update: The stands for my QS8's finally arrived via FedEx yesterday and I wasted no time getting them assembled so I could get the QS8's up and running. I let auto MCACC do it's thing then tweeked the settings a little in manual MCACC. I had direct radiating speakers in the rear before so the sound of the QS8's is different than what I am used to but I do enjoy the way the sound is spread out more. Thanks to all who suggested I go with the QS8's instead of the M3's for my rear speakers.

Glad they are working for you.