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#333595 - 01/05/11 10:51 PM Re: Finally puchased the QS8s [Re: Adrian]
CatBrat Offline
axiomite

Registered: 08/05/09
Posts: 6015
Loc: Milky Way Galaxy
It sounds like v3 means increase margins by cutting costs.

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#333597 - 01/05/11 11:22 PM Re: Finally puchased the QS8s [Re: bdpf]
JohnK Offline
shareholder in the making

Registered: 05/11/02
Posts: 10644
Bruno, it is rather disturbing to note experiences such as yours which seem to indicate that the quality control isn't what it was in the past.

As to the mode to be used for the QS8s with 2-channel sources, my suggestion is to use DPLII rather than 5-channel stereo. The 5-channel stereo mode simply duplicates the left front in the left surround and likewise for the right side(a center speaker gets both the left and right front equally). While the ambience DPLII extracts from the front channels is of course very similar to the rest of the front channel material, it isn't identical. The ambience is slightly different in phase(because the reflections are delayed in time)and also is less prominent in the high frequencies and slightly lower in level(other properties of the reflected sound). Playing the original front channel sound in the surround may in a sense be more impressive since it's louder, but playing the extracted ambience instead is closer to reality.
_________________________
-----------------------------------

Enjoy the music, not the equipment.



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#333598 - 01/05/11 11:25 PM Re: Finally puchased the QS8s [Re: CatBrat]
SBrown Offline
aficionado

Registered: 11/16/10
Posts: 901
Loc: Victoria,BC
"knock on wood" I have had five shipments of stuff so far and everything is good. But one of the M80 needed a little more trimming on the vinyl in one corner on top.

Not a real biggie but geez, you should be able to catch that type of error? I was sweating when I trimmed it, turned out well! eek

But ya, that's gotta hurt when that happens bud.

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#333599 - 01/05/11 11:56 PM Re: Finally puchased the QS8s [Re: SBrown]
CatBrat Offline
axiomite

Registered: 08/05/09
Posts: 6015
Loc: Milky Way Galaxy
In my line of business, if I make a mistake, there's a meeting to discuss it and we find a method to keep it from happening again in the future. I continue to make mistakes, sure, but mostly they are different mistakes, because the old ones no longer happen. There is zero tolerance for mistakes, because mistakes affect the bottom line.

It almost seems that QC at Axiom guarantees that a certain percent of mistakes are mandated or required.

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#333603 - 01/06/11 12:40 AM Re: Finally puchased the QS8s [Re: CatBrat]
bdpf Offline
aficionado

Registered: 06/28/08
Posts: 769
Loc: Toronto, Canada
Thank you guys for your support.

Don't get me wrong, I love my speakers and really like the company and their philosophy. I don't know too many people with HT but of the ones I know, I have the best sounding one (at least to my ears) but not the most expensive one.

My previous post was from the email that I wrote JC while discussing the speaker replacement. As I told him, this email (and my post) is not, by any means, meant to be a complain letter. If anything, it is meant to help Axiom improve what I believe to be their weak point and what prevents the company from being a great company all around. I really believe it can be a great company all around. It is just frustrating to see so many mistakes that, being honest, can be easily avoided. They should be able to catch a defective driver at the factory, drivers scratched or dented should be caught by a simple visual inspection, if it happens during shipping, the packaging should be rethought. Assembling the speaker, they should notice that the screw keeps on spinning without tying anything. Like I said, a lot of mistakes that can be easily avoided and save the customer some frustration. Anyway, hopefully the next one will be fine.
_________________________
Bruno
M80s/VP180/QS8s/EP600/AVR-890
------------------------------------
"The problem is choice..."

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#333604 - 01/06/11 12:47 AM Re: Finally puchased the QS8s [Re: JohnK]
bdpf Offline
aficionado

Registered: 06/28/08
Posts: 769
Loc: Toronto, Canada
Originally Posted By: JohnK
The 5-channel stereo mode simply duplicates the left front in the left surround and likewise for the right side(a center speaker gets both the left and right front equally). While the ambience DPLII extracts from the front channels is of course very similar to the rest of the front channel material, it isn't identical.


Thanks JohnK. I am aware of that. While it is true that DLPII recreates a more realistic ambiance, I enjoy this mode when I am sitting in front of my system at the main sitting position. What I like about the 5 CH stereo is that the room is full of sound without any imaging which is nice if I am moving around the room a lot or playing with my daughter.

What is your impression of NEO6? Do you experience as well this echo effect or is it just me? I remember a member (Dean I think) that mention that delays and other parameter could be changed to taste but I couldn't find it on the receiver.
_________________________
Bruno
M80s/VP180/QS8s/EP600/AVR-890
------------------------------------
"The problem is choice..."

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#333606 - 01/06/11 12:56 AM Re: Finally puchased the QS8s [Re: bdpf]
ClubNeon Offline
connoisseur

Registered: 02/06/09
Posts: 3466
Loc: Western Maryland, USA
Neo:6 music should have the parameters (as does PLII Music).

I don't like the extraction process performed by DTS's algorithms at all. I even apply PLIIx to 5.1 DTS tracks for my surround back.

Dolby does the ambiance extraction in very logical way, and patented the process. So DTS searching for their own routine had to come up with something else. To my ears it is much less natural.
_________________________
Pioneer PDP-5020FD, Marantz SR6011
Axiom M5HP, VP160HP, QS8
Sony PS4, surround backs
-Chris

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#333607 - 01/06/11 01:33 AM Re: Finally puchased the QS8s [Re: ClubNeon]
grunt Offline
connoisseur

Registered: 12/04/06
Posts: 3569
Loc: Nirvana
Bruno, I agree with Chris about Dolby vs Neo:6. At first Neo:6 can sound interesting but after listening for a while Dolby clearly sounds more natural. Like Chris I also use PLIIx on DTS tracks now.

The only parameter I can set on my receiver for Neo:6 is the center width. However, for Dolby I can set the center width, panorama (blends mains more into the surrounds) and dimension (moves soundstage forward or backwards). But AFAIK these all only work with 2.0 sources.

I’m not sure if your Denon has a setting similar to my Onkyo but when I’m up and moving around I switch to just my front 3 speakers + subwoofer. It basically gives me whole house audio (well whole neighborhood if I turn it up) by running my 3 M80s and sub.
_________________________
3M80 2M22 6QS8 2M2 1EP500 Sony BDP-S590 Panny-7000 Onkyo-3007 Carada-134 Xbox Buttkicker AS-EQ1

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#333608 - 01/06/11 02:05 AM Re: Finally puchased the QS8s [Re: grunt]
ClubNeon Offline
connoisseur

Registered: 02/06/09
Posts: 3466
Loc: Western Maryland, USA
With 3 identical speakers across the front, you should try decreasing the center width. It's there for people who have centers that are weaker than their mains.

You're right Neo:6 Music only has a center setting. I did play with the Panorama and Dimension, but ended up going back to the original setting for both as that sounded the most natural too (although it is neat to adjust while listening to music, it does make a noticeable change).

PLII(x) Music can only be chosen when fed a 2 channel source. When I'm listening to CDs and then throw in a DVD-A, my receiver switches back to regular ol' PLIIx, which does not have the additional settings.
_________________________
Pioneer PDP-5020FD, Marantz SR6011
Axiom M5HP, VP160HP, QS8
Sony PS4, surround backs
-Chris

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#333610 - 01/06/11 03:46 AM Re: Finally puchased the QS8s [Re: bdpf]
JohnK Offline
shareholder in the making

Registered: 05/11/02
Posts: 10644
Bruno, I also definitely prefer DPLII to Neo:6. Although I really didn't consider it to be an "echo" effect, it nevertheless didn't sound as realistic to me.

As to changes in the surround parameters, I think that it's more likely that you're recalling a discussion of the ones available in DPLII, which are more extensive. "Dimension" varies the amount of extracted ambience which is sent to the surrounds, and to some extent can help on recordings which have a relatively low amount of ambience mixed into the front channels. "Center Width" varies the amount of equal left/right material sent to the center speaker from none("phantom" center then exists)to the maximum amount for a strongly anchored center image. "Panorama" sends some front channel direct sound(not the ambience)to the surrounds to "widen" the front sound stage and is an effect I don't care for, although I wonder if it simulates to a degree the use of separate "width" speakers.
_________________________
-----------------------------------

Enjoy the music, not the equipment.



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