Axiom Home Page Forums General Discussion Advice from Axiom Owners M50s instead of QS4

My HT is still work in progress and i have the M60s and VP100.. Very happy with them.

Thinking of filling in the surrounds next and have been thinking about the M50s instead of QS4s. One of the reasons being that i will have to put the QS4s in a stand since mounting on the wall is not an option because of the shape of the room.

Looking for pros and cons of going ahead with the M50s.

There will be a timber mismatch using the M50's, not that it is critical for the surrounds but for multichannel music it is preffered to have a timber match on all speakers. I would suggest M22's or M60/M80 for direct radiators, but I would recommend the QS8's over the 4's for a perfect timber match and the QS8s over a direct radiator for surround duty.

The QS series is very forgiving on placement do you have a picture/drawing of your room, maybe we could suggest some places for the QS series to go.

I wouldn't. I think it would be a bad idea, personally.

The QS-series diffuses the sound so it's not so localized and they have a reputation of being about as good as it gets.

Besides, the M50s are known to have a somewhat different sound than the M60s you have.

Hi krikan,

The QS8s are so placement forgiving that you can wall-mount them darn near anywhere and they'll still deliver a hugely enveloping surround field.

The do not need to be symmetrical in placement. By that, I mean they can be at different heights and distances, nor do they need to be opposite each other. My own QS8s are at different heights, and the right side surround is slightly forward of my couch and about 2 feet higher up than the left one. Their multi-directional dispersion simply blends together with all the reflections from a room's surfaces, yielding surround envelopment that is not localizable at the speakers.

Like the others here, I'd advise against using M50s because of the latter's different timbral (tonal) balance to your M60s.

Regards,
Alan

Too far forward, and you don't get quite the effect, though.

I have a similar question. I have 4-way floor-standing pioneer speakers in the front with axiom's VP-180 center channel, and my next purchase is either QS8's or M80's. I was thinking I could move the pioneers to the rear and get the M80's first, or just go with QS8's because I already have front floor standing speakers.

Currently am using some Bose Series III bookshelf speakers for the rears sitting on a desk. Which leads to my second question, which the forum consensus seems that the QS8's sound better mounted on the wall rather than being on a speaker stand. Would that be correct?

Get the M80s next and use the Bose for surround duty. I think you could use stands if ya want with good results.

I'm sure you can get good results with the stands, but they aren't as high as I'd like the surround speakers to be, and they cost extra money. If it's possible, I'd definitely wall-mount the QSes.

Thanks Alan.. The decision is pretty much done. Could u explain what you meant by timbral difference ? Would like to take this opportunity to understand what it is..

Thanks Jakewash.. The HT is in my basement which is 40' long and 25' wide, 7/7.5' high. It is a nice rectangle but the stairs leading down eats up 4' on one side. So i have a nice viewing/listening area of 25'x 25'. I thought because of the stairs on one side and wall on the other, the QS speakers wouldn't be at the same height and also facing different directions.. Alan's explanation helps and my problem now is to figure out how to run the wires and hide them in the walls

I vote for wall mounting surrounds if at all possible.

krikan, re "timbral difference"...

timbre..."The combination of qualities of a sound that distinguishes it from other sounds of the same pitch and volume."

Basically, the timbre of a speaker is it's sound signature. You want the signature of your speakers to match each other(timbre) so that you don't have any tonal differences from one to the other which can be quite noticeable esp on your front three speakers in a surround system where timbral matching is most important. With few exceptions, this is why you should generally stick with speakers from the same company. The M50s are "voiced" slightly differenly, as are the M3's from most of Axiom's speakers.

The M3/M50 have a simialr sound(I haven't heard the 50's going by other's with this one), The midrange on them is slightly recessed compared to the M2/M22.M60/M80 thus giving you a timber mismatch between them. The more neutral to prominent midrange of the latter speakers gives them a more forward sound to many ears.

I used M50s as side surround speakers years ago. I found the arrangement unsatisfying. I've used M2s as well, no love there. I used some M22 like Michaura M55s - liked that a lot. QS8s? The bomb.

The stands are nice because you can easily re-arrange them to suite your environment. I like them because they are at ear level when sitting which made a big difference compared to wall hanging above as mentioned.

They will set you back a few dollars but they are well worth the money.I just put two sets together last night and really like them alot.

PS The wife likes them too!

But Shawn, the idea is that for most of the sounds carried by the surrounds it's more effective to have these coming not at ear level, but from at least 2' above. An exception would be multi-channel music which had a discrete instrument in the surround channel which was meant to be heard more directly.

Hi krikan,

Thanks to Adrian for the definition of "timbral" differences.

If you want to do a simple and quick demonstration of the coloration (or timbral signature) effects on sound, have someone talk to you in a normal voice and then as they are talking, tell them to cup their hands around their mouth as though they were going to yell to make their voice carry farther.

You will hear an immediate change in the tonal quality (timbral signature) of his or her voice. That is what happens when a loudspeaker "horn-loads" a driver. It's an unnatural coloration or timbral change.

You can even do this demo yourself if you have a bathroom with a bunch of reflective tiles. Just face the mirror and keep talking then cup your hands around your mouth and you'll hear the change in your own voice. It's a quick and fairly dramatic demo of horn coloration in speakers. It adds a slightly nasal quality to the voice that's not accurate.

Our ears are acutely sensitive to sounds in the midrange, so that is why we notice any slight tonal (timbral) colorations on dialogue in the front three speakers (and the surrounds, if the colorations are blatant).

Regards,
Alan

Thank you Alan for a clear explanation..Really helps..

Thanks to 2x6spds for his avatar..My 4-year old just couldn't help laughing and refused to let me change the page... took me a little longer to get it and join in.. Nice one.

I am so glad your 4 year old enjoyed my bad penguin avatar. I get a kick out of it myself.

I am so glad your 4 year old enjoyed my bad penguin avatar. I get a kick out of it myself.

I am so glad your 4 year old enjoyed my bad penguin avatar. I get a kick out of it myself.