Axiom Home Page Forums General Discussion Home Theater Biggest Bang for My Buck

I have been hit by the upgrade bug and I don’t think I will be able to get any work done until I upgrade.

My current system is as follows:

Sony STR-DE845 - 5.1 receiver with 100 watts per channel (I seriously doubt that is what it puts out).

Fronts - M3ti’s
Center – VP100
Rears – crappy 3 way Yamahas
Sub – Acoustic Research ARS108PSB (nothing special)

My use is 80% HT / 20% music (mostly MP3’s) and the room I am working with is 17x12, with 8 foot ceilings.

I looking for a upgrade route that will give me the best overall sound experience, especially since I will not be able to upgrade again for at least 3 years ( I am a student). The budget is approximately $1000.00.

One upgrade route I have considered is to get a new receiver (I have been told that the weak link in my system is my receiver), either the Yamaha RX-V1400 or the Denon 2803. If I go this way, I would possibly get the QS8’s, or a new sub, or M22ti’s for my fronts (moving the M3ti’s to the rear. Right now, I am leaning towards getting the QS8’s. I am still undecided as to which receiver I should get. Any advice will be very helpful.

Another other option is to purchase a pair of M60’s for my fronts and move the M3ti’s to the rears. My concern with this upgrade route is that my receiver will do very little justice to the speakers.

My goal is to have a well balanced HT system that will satisfy me for the next 3 years. Any advice you can give will be greatly appreciated. I need to get this upgrade over with so I can be productive again.

Thanks!

Tony, we've got to get you reading those cases again, or you'll be outa there. Don't worry about the receiver power, it's fine. The features, of course, are getting a bit dated, but that can wait. Try an Axiom trade-in on the M3s, get M60s and QS4s or QS8s, and then back to the lawbooks.

You've got $1000 and you're 80% HT? This is an easy one.

QS4's and a Hsu STF-2. That's only $679. Buy some DVD's.

OR if you want to buy a beast of a sub, that'll you'll likely never need to upgrade regardless of where you move, you could get the newly released Hsu VTF-3 MK2. At $699 it's by far the best bang for your buck subwoofer available. But that would push your budget to it's max.

Seriously though, if you're setup is for 80% HT, a killer sub, and some new surrounds is what you should be buying.

BTW...get your Axioms from their factory outlet. Why pay full price?

I think John is right in the respect that new speakers (especially mains) are going to make the biggest difference to you.

I also think the receivers you mentioned would be WAY overkill until you address the speakers. I've got a Denon 1804 and I'm completely satisfied. No YPAO, but full features and ample power.

If you could get a little trade for the M3's (or sell them outright), you could probably get a EP125, QS4s and M22s. Frankly, since you're still studying and will undoubtedly move a couple times in the next 5 years, I'd wait on the M60s.

Tony,

I've got a M60/VP100/QS8 with an SVS 20-39PCi sub. The whole thing is being driven (quite effectively and with room to spare) by a Denon 1803. Tom is using the follow-on model 1804.

The Denon 2803 would be a fine choice and more than adequate, but the main difference is that it has 10W per channel more than the 1804. The extra $300-$400 is probably not justified and could be spent on a HSU or SVS sub.

As Tom suggests, the M22s would be a nice choice as long as you have a good sub. I have the M60s in a 16x22x10 room and they are almost too much speaker (of course bigger is almost ALWAYS better). For that size room, I spent quite a bit of time on the phone with Joe at Axiom deciding between the M22s and the M60s.

I'd suggest calling the good folks at Axiom and talk through room size with them. Also, you might want to use the Speaker Choosing Wizard (sic) on the Axiom home page for some additional input.

Also, ecost is an authorized Denon etailer and they sell refurbished and B-stock Denon equipment. This could save you some receiver $$$. Check back often there because the equipment shows up in spurts.

My .02: Get the QS8s and then decide how much you love bass. If the answer is "a ton," max out past $1000 and get the VTF-3 as spiff suggests, b/c you will probably not feel the need to upgrade this again. If the answer is "a little" look at a less expensive SVS or Hsu or used sub.

Meanwhile, keep the M3tis (IMHO) b/c you're going to move before too long it sounds, and smaller speakers will be nice for this, OR at most, see if Axiom will give you a nice deal trading in M3s for M22s.

The cool thing is if you keep the M3s, you can get M60s once you're ready for floorstanders and still have an auxiliary set for an extra room -- and a new receiver if you upgrade then.

Birdman

Thanks guys, these are all great suggestions. It's going to be a tough decision. I have one question about the HSU STF-2 sub. I noticed that it is a down firing sub, how do those do on a carpeted floor?

One more question! Since the HSU VTF-2 (free shipping) is the nearly the same price as the STF-2 ($25 S&H), what would you guys recommend? The stats on the HSU webpage indicate that the STF-2 is 200 watts, and the VTF-2 is only 150W, but the VTF-2 has that variavle tuning port. Any recommendations?

I have the VTF-2, and never switch it from max extension. (As most everyone else does). If it were me, I'd get the STF-2. (They weren't available when I bought mine.)

To play devil's advocate though, the VTF-2 is an established unit from Hsu, and all kinks have been worked out. The STF-2 has had a few production problems. (Though Hsu claims they're all fixed now.)

As to your downfiring question. Carpeting is not a problem.

I Have the STF-2. If I understand this correctly, the STF-2 is just like the VTF-2 tuned for maximum extension (down to 25Hz). The advantage to the VTF-2 (if you consider it one) is that, by using the tuning plug, you can tune it to play louder but then it doesn't go quite as low. I don't listen at loud volume very much, so I got the STF-2 and saved a few buck. Believe me, with the extra 50 watts of power, it plays PLENTY loud enough.

The STF-2 (and I assume the VTF-2, also) is made for carpeted floors. It has pointed plastic spikes to anchor it to the carpet, and if you have hard floors, HSU recommends you put a rug under the sub.

Amolet

First - M3Tis don't get the respect they deserve around here. They are GREAT speakers. That having been said,

I have a Sony STRDB 1070 rated at 100 wpc x 6, and figure it never put out more than 30 wpc, but has an excellent front end and if you put some decent amplification behind it, can sound great. So, here are a few suggestions:

Option 1

Keep Sony as processor
Keep the M3Tis

Buy used 5 channel amp. Graduating or flunking out of state students should be selling some equpt for cheap. Don't pay more than $350. Nice Adcom, Integra, Rotel, or you can find 3 used stereo amps.

Get a pair of M2s for your side position speakers from FO ($230) You can always move these to the back position when you go 7.1 and then get a pair of QS8s for the side position.

partsexpress.com Vance Dickason Titanic 10" subwoofer. $350 delivered.

Sell your subwoofer ($100?)
You have $170 change under option 1.

Option 2

Same as above, except buy QS8s instead of the M2s. You are now about $25 over your limit

Option 3.

Sell the Sony for $150-200. Put money in the pocket.
Sell your Sub put another $100-150 in the pocket.

Buy Panasonic XR45 digitally amplified receiver from internet, do not pay more than $300, or get Panasonic SAHE 200 receiver for the same price. The former does not have preouts but is reported to sound great, incredibly low noise floor, once broken in, very extended highs and terrific mids. The latter is just your basic Panasonic overachieving 6.1 receiver which I like better than the Yamaha 1400, much better than the sub $1000 HKs.

Trade in your VP100 for a VP150, or sell the VP100 and buy the VP150.

At this point, depending on how good a salesperson you are, the Panasonic should have cost you a net $0, and the VP150 shouldn't have cost you more than $200 after you sold the VP100s. (don't know how much you get in trade from Axiom)

So you're sitting with a new giant killing receiver and one of the finest center channels available and should be no more than $200 out of pocket.

Buy a pair of M2s for the side position. ($230 FO)

You now have $570 to spend on a subwoofer. You could buy 2 used Velodyne CHT 12" subs and use them as snack tables as well as low frequency sonic violence generators, or you could check out used subs locally.

I think Option 3 looks better.

Option 4

Read the cases, think about the law, don't watch movies on your system, listen to music which helps you study.

In any case, good luck!! Enjoy the music.

I don't know of anyone who has their VTF-2 set for max output. Set for max extension goes plenty loud enough.

I wouldn't suggest you buy a new reciever. Receivers depreciate like computers. You should buy a seperate 5 channel amp and use your sony as a preamp.
You could also take your current rear speakers to the pawn shop and put that $100 into some qs4s.
That would be a great system!

I haven't decided completely on how I will upgrade, but thanks to your suggestions I have decided not to upgrade my receiver. I am going to buy either a pair of QS4's or QS8's, leaning towards the QS4's. As for my front speakers, I talked to Axion today and they will allow me to upgrade my M3ti's. I have to ship it back to them and they will give me half of the purchase price and credit towards a new speaker purchase. So I may pickup a pair of M22ti's. Though a subwoofer seems very tempting as well. Anyway, I will keep you all posted, and keep the recommendations coming.

In general I'd recommend M22s, QS4s, and the STF-2 sub. You can get that for about $1k.

An alternate is moving the M3s to the side surround position, and getting M60s. But the M60s are pretty big so make sure you've got the space. Exceed your budget a little and add a Hsu STF-2, or keep your current sub and upgrade the center to a VP150. The VP150 is a lot bigger than the VP100 so check space carefully. If on top of your TV, make sure it can safely support the 17lb weight.

You already have a surround receiver now, stick with that. If you did 80% music, it might be worth upgrading to a receiver with Dolby PLII or HK Logic 7 to convert stereo to surround. However you are 80% HT, so this wouldn't apply as much. It's always tempting to upgrade the electronics, but you'll usually hear a much bigger difference by upgrading speakers.

I've had the STF-2 and a VTF-3, and the STF-2 was very impressive. If you upgrade your sub, I'd say the STF-2 is plenty for your situation.