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#337144 - 02/04/11 09:39 PM Re: Complete home audio newbie, could use some help! [Re: Artisan]
JohnK Offline
shareholder in the making

Registered: 05/11/02
Posts: 10525
Arti, welcome back(whoever you formerly were). My first suggestion, which I view as more important than the M22/M60 question, since they're very similar from the mid-bass on up, is to definitely get QS surrounds along with your mains. You can at least temporarily get along without a sub or separate center speaker, but without surrounds you don't have an HT setup to enjoy both 2-channel(using a mode such as DPLII)and multi-channel sources.

As was said, you're in control of the sub volume and can adjust it to a suitable volume, considering even the neighbors. I use and highly recommend the M22/ EP500 combination, which is a full-range system lacking nothing in any frequency range. If budgetary considerations demand, there are fine subs available at lower prices from other sources.

Edit: I'd also suggest that you move up one step in the Onkyo models, primarily to get the Audyssey MultEQ(rather than 2EQ)for greater resolution in the room EQ, and possibly more importantly, equalization of the sub. The 707 factory refurb is available at A4L for about $400.

Edited by JohnK (02/04/11 10:06 PM)

Enjoy the music, not the equipment.

#337174 - 02/05/11 09:20 AM Re: Complete home audio newbie, could use some help! [Re: JohnK]
MarkSJohnson Offline
shareholder in the making

Registered: 09/27/04
Posts: 11370
Loc: Central NH
I'd go with M60s for music listening. A sub like the 500 doesn't show it's real capabilities unless you're watching movies or, as mentioned, listening to pipe organ music. The 60's will give you all the bass you need for your musical preferences with less of a neighbor-annoyance factor.

Or, if your budget can allow...

Consider the M80s for their edge in detail and slightly lower bass if you're going subwoofer-less.

I think that's the first time I've ever recommended M80's, but I think that's what I'd do for a two-channel music system that doesn't involve pipe organs...
::::::: No disrespect to Axiom, but my favorite woofer is my yellow lab :::::::

#337189 - 02/05/11 11:55 AM Re: Complete home audio newbie, could use some help! [Re: jakewash]
Philippe Offline

Registered: 07/01/09
Posts: 282
M22 + 2 EP400 my friend. wink

Or if you looking for a tower, then nothing else than a M80. Got a little more bass extention than the M60, but have better clarity in the mids and trebles ( 2 mids and 2 tweeters. )
I actually run in a 3.0 mode (M80/VP150) and i rarely feel that i need a subwoofer.
And since you looking for a music setup first, you wont like having 1 subwoofer placing in a corner, you will feel the bass comming only form the sub, and this is really annoying.

I vote for tower, or M22 + 2subwoofers.

Edited by Philippe (02/05/11 11:57 AM)
Nad C356 DAC & C515
Axiom M3v3
Grant Fidelity RPF-120 MKII
Analysis Plus Black Oval 12&10
JRiver 19

#337197 - 02/05/11 04:14 PM Re: Complete home audio newbie, could use some help! [Re: CatBrat]
fredk Offline

Registered: 12/06/07
Posts: 7718
Loc: Canada
Originally Posted By: CatBrat
Where's Fredk when you need him to say that everything is the same because the world is flat.... Oh wait...

Listen here Flatcat... wink

Blujays1: Spending Fred's money one bottle at a time, no two... Oh crap!

#337198 - 02/05/11 04:14 PM Re: Complete home audio newbie, could use some help! [Re: Philippe]
ClubNeon Offline

Registered: 02/06/09
Posts: 3453
Loc: Western Maryland, USA
I run two M22s plus two small subs, and if it ever arrives a ButtKicker to fill in the bottom three octaves (5 to 40 Hz).

I like the idea of small subs acting as an extension to the M22s, but the EP400s are way too expensive. Something like the Outlaw M8 would be more in line:

Edited by ClubNeon (02/05/11 04:22 PM)
Pioneer VSX-1018AH-K, PDP-5020FD, DV-79AVi
Axiom M22s, VP150, QS8s
Sony PS3, surround backs

#337199 - 02/05/11 04:26 PM Re: Complete home audio newbie, could use some help! [Re: ClubNeon]
fredk Offline

Registered: 12/06/07
Posts: 7718
Loc: Canada
If the system were for music only, I would strongly recomment the M80s, skip the sub and call it a day. They are noticeably better than the M60 on their own because of the bass extension, more clarity at the top and a little better mid-bass.


I was like you, looking for mainly a music system, but was surprised by how much good surrounds and a good sub added to the movie experience.

If it is beween the M22 and M60 with a sub, I would go with the M22 + sub. I had a chance to listen to all the combinations at Axiom, and was surprised to find that I had a hard time telling the difference between the M22 + sub and the M60 + sub (aside from the obviouse bass extension a sub gives you. This was with V2 product.

No matter which you choose, you will be very happy.

Blujays1: Spending Fred's money one bottle at a time, no two... Oh crap!

#337212 - 02/05/11 06:10 PM Re: Complete home audio newbie, could use some help! [Re: fredk]
Artisan Offline

Registered: 02/04/11
Posts: 23
Loc: Beaumont, TX
Well if I total those up I come up with the following:

M22 + Ep500 2 votes

M22 + 2 Ep400 or two other small subs 2 votes

M80s 3 votes

M60s 6 votes

Two Ep400s is going to be way out of budget, especially considering that I'm willing to forgo even a single sub. Two $1000+ subs in tandem just doesn't appeal to my budget. Sonically, however, that idea sounds very intriguing.

I was kind of already persuaded against the M80s. From my past perusal of these forums I had come to the conclusion that the M80s don't offer much more over the M60s except that they will play a little louder, a little lower, and a little brighter. Considering the size of my apartment listening room, I figured the M60s were a perfect choice for floor standers. Without a sub, however, I can see giving the M80s a nod for their extra bass extension. I really don't listen at loud levels. That may change down the road when I own my own house, but for now I keep things at a very casual volume. Do the M80s really provide enough extra sonic beauty over the M60s to justify the extra size and extra cost? Not to mention being a 4 ohm speaker compared to the easy 8 ohms of the M60s? I'm not dead set against the M80s, but I had already decided previously that the M60s would be perfect for a set of floor standers if I decided to go that route instead of the M22s.

JohnK: What is Audyssey, and why should I be interested in it? What do I get in return for the extra cash by moving up a step or two in receiver?

Edited by Artisan (02/05/11 06:11 PM)

#337231 - 02/05/11 09:00 PM Re: Complete home audio newbie, could use some help! [Re: Artisan]
Ken.C Offline
shareholder in the making

Registered: 05/03/03
Posts: 18029
Loc: NoVA
I don't have M60s, but my M80s do quite well at low volumes. I'm sure M60s would as well.

I just prefer towers to bookshelves. That's a personal preference; I know for a fact there are those who prefer bookshelves.

Edited by kcarlile (02/05/11 09:01 PM)
I am the Doctor, and THIS... is my SPOON!

#337233 - 02/05/11 09:20 PM Re: Complete home audio newbie, could use some help! [Re: Ken.C]
BobKay Offline

Registered: 03/23/10
Posts: 3541
Loc: Massachusetts Badlands
Another vote for M60's, though Fred is correct. You won't be disappointed with any choice.

Best of luck with your final choice.

Oh, and Audyssey is a proprietary name for the multi-channel system that will self-set the best levels for the dynamic and frequency levels of each speaker. It sends out a signal to an included mike that you place in the room's listening positions.
Then it will do the calibrationns for the best result, based specifically on your room.
If you need more, or more detailed info, JohnK (and others) will happily help.


Edited by BobKay (02/05/11 09:36 PM)
I picked up dog chews at the store. Made in Cambodia. I thought, "dog-eat-dog." I put them back.

#337236 - 02/05/11 10:07 PM Re: Complete home audio newbie, could use some help! [Re: Artisan]
JohnK Offline
shareholder in the making

Registered: 05/11/02
Posts: 10525
Arti, Audyssey is an automated speaker calibration(sets levels and distances for balanced sound at the listening position)and room correction(modifies the frequency and time envelopes to partially overcome the distortions that all listening rooms impose on all speakers)system. Several such systems are available on various makes of receivers, but many(including me)consider it to be the most advanced system currently available on receivers. It's featured by makes such as Denon, Marantz, NAD and Onkyo. An included microphone is set at one or more positions to measure responses to test tones for the data needed for the calibration and room correction.

The 608 has the simplified Audyssey 2EQ, which measures from only two positions besides the central listening spot, and doesn't equalize the sub channel. The Audyssey MultEQ measures six or more positions for greater accuracy in the room corrections and also equalizes the sub channel for corrections in the important low bass frequencies. I consider that this easily justifies moving up to the next model level, which can be had, as I mentioned, for just a bit more.

Enjoy the music, not the equipment.

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