Axiom Home Page Forums General Discussion Advice from Axiom Owners Polk SDA 1C VS M80 V3

I have an old set of Polk SDA 1C's, very good speakers, but to make a long story short, It's time to upgrade. This is a stereo system only.

I'm looking at the M80V3 to replace them. I listen to mostly classic rock, blues, and classical. Let me say i do listen at concert volumes to put it mildly. They would be sitting in a room about 15x27. The speakers would be about 8-9 feet apart. The ceiling is a dropped type with standard acoutical 2x4 tiles, carpet on the floor.

The equipment to run this is an Onkyo M-504 Dual mono block, Jolida 100A and an Adcom pre. I don't always sit in the "sweet" spot and could be any place in the room, as there is a bar at the end of the room.
My question would be, can the M80 put out enough "sound" to fill the room, and can they handle the volume rquired, without adding extra speakers to the mix.
Thanks for any input on this
Bob

Yes the M80s will fill your room and then some, our room (14x25) is about the same size as yours and I've never felt like the M80 were never up to the task. You'll have have more speaker than your ears will probably allow for any length of time.

Welcome!

The M80's can go way beyond your needs, if you don't go deaf first. Welcome by the way. Most likely you don't have anough power to drive them anyway.

Thanks for the welcome. I've been a musicain for 30 years, playing Marshall 1/2 stacks on stage, so if i'm not deaf yet, probably will not happen..LOL
The Onkyo M-504 is a high current dual mono block that puts out about 170wtts per at 8 ohms..at 4, more like 250. Never had a problem driving any speaker before. Are the M80's power hogs?

No, they're efficient/sensitive.

Welcome to the forums!

I will say that when I quickly read your subject line, I thought this thread was someone searching for Polka SACDs.

I would not say they are power hogs, actually they are very efficient and can play very loud using little power, rated at 95dB inroom 1watt/meter. I don't exactly remember the specs, but I think Axiom has tested them before in the lab pumping wattage hungry music at 700+ watts continously with peaks exceeding 1K watts for 24-48+ hours.

here's a document that might help with some questions about power relationship in amp/spkrs:
http://www.crownaudio.com/amp_htm/amp_info/how_much_power.htm

My other question would be , how big of a "soundstage" do these present. The Polks SDA's are very good at that, present a very open type soundstage. It's always nice to sit at the "sweet" spot to pick up every little thing. But if your at the other end of the room. Will the m80's present you with an open, type "spacial" feeling. for lack of better words..

The M80s have a fantastic soundstage and imaging.

HA! Just looked up the Polks. Now no one gets to say that no other speaker from a reputable manufacturer used dual tweeters.

Hi bobt,

You'll find the M80s will present a very wide and deep soundstage (if the source material is well recorded); in addition, the M80s will be much more transparent and musically accurate than the old Polks.

Are those Polks of yours one of the models that used the cross-cancellation circuitry to expand the soundstage? That effect could be quite compelling or bizarre, but it only worked well if you were precisely in the sweet spot between the two speaker. The effect collapsed if you were anywhwere off-axis or even turned your head at an angle.

And, as others have noted, the M80s will cleanly handle many hundreds of watts per channel and deliver SPLs that are extremely loud, if desired.

Regards,
Alan

Welcome, Bob. As noted, the M80s can handle gobs of power and are quite efficient on top of that. I've also found them to be very good off-axis as well since usually I'm in another room of the house working on something.

I'm not sure they use Cross-cancellation. but i never found that if you move your head or get out of the "sweet" spot you loose the "spacial" feeling. I've had these since 1987 bought new.
The only reason i'm looking at new speakers, is 1 of the drivers finally failed. Polk sent me 3 replacement drivers.Unfortunatly, they went to China to have them made. In a word there complete junk, the voice coils are crap. If you push them..they POP.
I told Polk this, but these speakers have not been made for years, and there stuck with a bunch of junk drivers at this point. They only did this to keep the old users happy in the first place. They work ok if you don't push them. But i can't deal with that. They were very good speakers. So i'm hard pressed to find replacements for them.

Reads to me like you've already found 'em.

I personally believe you'll be quite pleased with a pair of M80s.

Well Rick, without hearing them..it's all a guess. But I love your SRV pic's. I also have that SRV dvd. But your room has a lot more speakers the just a pair of M80's..LOL

Yours will too, just give it time.

I don't think i should have a power problem pushing these speakers. The M-504 is bone solid pushing 4 ohm speakers.
Which alot of "stereo" power amps are not really happy with.

This amp is really big and really heavy, it was even rated very highly by "Stereophile mag" which is unusual for that mag.

There is a set of "B" stock M80's listed, i guess on the Axiom bid list or ebay type deal. They don't show the speakers. There new sitting in the factory. But they have some "Blems" on them.

To be honest i don't care about a few scratches, but is there anybody i could call, maybe see a pic of what the "Blem" is.

You could call Axiom (toll free top of page) to get some details on them most likely.

There's a good chance those blemishes will never be discovered. Many of us have Axioms factory outlet speakers, now Axiom auction speakers, and have never found the blemishes that were suppose to be on the speakers.

To be honest, i have never, ever, ever..bought a set of Hi-Fi speakers unheard. so this is making me a bit uneasy to say the least.

These speakers need to be broken in. Is there a "brake in cd" that you can just put on replay for 40 hours. Plus how loud do you need run these, for a brake in?

Just use the source material you enjoy listening to at whatever volume you find comfortable.

Break in is just an excuse for manufacturers for you to not return your speakers if you don't like them during the trial period. You will know in the first few weeks of listening whether you like them or not.

OK...the strange thing is kind of everybody seems to say they need to be broken in. The treble out of the box is supposed to be very brittle, until you run them for 50 or so hours.

Yes, or no on this??

Do they need breakin or not? If i pull them out of the box and the treble is nasty brite..i would tend to just put them back in the box.

Give your brain, where brake in really occurs, a few days to get used to them. Speakers do not need a break in period.

Its true that the t/s parameters of a woofer change as the voice coils heat up but as soon as the music is turned off and the woofer is allowed ample cooling the t/s parameters revert back. When I am talking about t/s parameters changing we are talking about temporary, relatively small and inaudible changes. As for the tweeters, no they do not break in.

On the other hand psychoacoustics is a real phenomena and what many perceive as speakers breaking or burning in.

the only thing that needs a break-in is the ear-brain;
in order for it to be completed as fast as possible one needs to forget the prejudices - we all have some because we're used to one particular set of speakers in a specific room which give a specific kind of sound - and try to listen with an open mind, concentrating only about how true to the original instruments and the recording ambiance the reproduction is; and NOT paying attention to how different they sound compared to the former speakers.
in other words, one needs to listen with a fresh mind, with a blank page.
my $0.03 worth... :-)

I do tend to agree wth you..speakers are what they are, and may take a while for your ears to get used to it. Not sure why the reviews say the treble is too brite...then it mellows out.

I've played music out for 30 years, i know what i want to hear. Stereo speakers, for the most part i can tell in 5 min, if i like them or not.

But i haven't bought stereo speakers in 20 years..so just checking.

Have you checked to see if there was someone in your area that you could go hear a set?

There is nobody close. But the stupid thing is these review people say they run the speakers while there at work "breakin"..them in, then they seem to sound wonderfull???

To be honest, most of these people, don't have a clue. I EQ live bands, and have run EQ's for cd's. I know what i want my guitar to sound like..don't need some clown telling me what to do.

I only use the reviews as a base line. I have not found any reviews that are bad except for the brittle treble.

So you have to take that with a grain of salt...LOL

Subjective reviews are pointless on speakers and that's what you get with 90% of the audio/video reviews. I tend to find reviews with measurements that can back up subjective listening helpful. That can help me determine if a product is worthy of the time to audition or not. Like you said a baseline.

Most of these "wonderfull" reveiw people..I could care less about. There NOT musicains...I play stuff by ear..all i have to do is hear the song, then i can play it. I can hear whats good and what is not. They would not know a good guitar from a bad one. So there reviews are at best just a baseline.

Are there any Paradigm dealers nearby? The Studio 100's have a very similar sound, so if you can hear a set of 100's you have pretty much heard the M80's only with A/B testing would you be able to hear the differences, in my experiences/ears any way.

The measurement can be helpfull to a point..but. bottom line, is what dose it sound like.

Plus what dose it sound like in your house, and space that your dealing with.

I pretty much have to try the M80 out. I can find no real problems stated with them. Again...i have to see..or more important listen.

Speaking about your room how is it furnished. Is it a highly reflective room?

At the moment..there is only a bar at the end of the room. 7foot ceiling with dropped panels, it's a basement locaton. But there will be a bunch of tables and chairs as such. I just finished it..so at the moment..not a lot in there. Could end up with a couch for all i know..so it's up in the air.

No there's not a Paradigm dealer around. To be honest they never really floated my boat, BUT...were talking 20 years ago..so that is pretty usless at this point.

There is not breakin, it is your brain that breaks in.

All i can say at this point, is as long as i get the 30 day trial,
then i will call them on monday. Untill i can hear them..it's usless to assume anything.

As long as you buy directly from Axiom you will get the 30 day trial and 5 year warranty. If you decide to return them you will get a full refund but have to pay for the return shipping.

Well as far as i know..it's off the Axiom wedsite.
Basically they have to sound better or at least as good as my Polks, and handle the power.

Without hearing the speakers...thats all i can say. Either they work..or they don't.

The M80 is one of those speakers that IS built for power handling. Whether you like the sound quality... audition them in your home.

As you say bobt, only one real way to find out and order them up, if they are new from Axiom you will get the 30 day trial period which truly is the best way to know how they will sound, especially as the room is the next biggest issue when it comes to sound reproduction.

Have you ordered them yet?



























How about now?













Now?

The only speakers I have heard in a long time are MartenLogon stuff. The small ones with the 8" sub built in. Or whatever they want to call it.

Without an out board sub...not very good. Not worth the money.
For the money..not even close.

I will just have to try the M80....it either works or it dose not... it either works for "me" or it dose not.

when you've heard them, be sure to tell us what you think; i'm far from being the only one here who wishes that.

I was skeptical about Axiom speakers up until I hooked them up and played some music through them.

I'm a musician too (as well as an audio snob) and I can tell you in all honesty that I've never heard a more accurate and musical speaker for such little $ as I did when I first heard my M22's.

The M80's are an even bigger bang for the buck.

Pull the trigger on this purchase with confidence. You will not be disappointed.

It's gonna be fun to hear your reaction after you get your M80's up and running...

When you come back here all effusive and impressed with Axiom don't say we didn't say... "I told you so!"

WOW..the speakers i wanted were gone....off the bid site.
To boot..my wife just told me i can't spend any money like that till April. Can't argue with her.(just not a smart idea).so i just have to sit and wait..nothing i can do about it...LOL

Double whammy...........dang.

Well the cherry one's..were gone. there is a black set, that i really could have bought. But being in the Doghouse for month's on end..and listening to it...Just not worth a set of speakers at the moment. I can wait till April....

I can send you the Rx that I was gonna send Chesseroo, if that'd be any consolation.

Well there is really no RX for this. I know I could have spent the money..but not worth the greif...so i can wait till April..not like the speakers are going anywere...LOL

Believe me if it was some great couch or something like that..sure..but speakers...LOL

Sorry to hear about your loss

No negotiating? Just giving up? I say buy them, and buy her a vp180 for Valentine's Day!

Now yer talking LOL

Ha ha, I love what married guys fantasize about.

I have had that feeling, too!

LMAO...well since i'm in the middle of redoing the whole house, paint and flooring. Speakers is a little down on the list of must have stuff. Plus you have to pick and choose your battles.
When the wife says no you can't buy that now, you have to wait till april..you just say yes, and go on painting the house. Then in april, when you just order them, and she throws a fit..you just say..well thats what you told me to do...LOL

In the words of the sage, tomtuttle, "Happy Wife, Happy Life."

Yeah, I'm using that concept with the kids now, too.

But it's not quite as asset-based, if you know what I mean.

I feel for ya, but...

I could never handle that level of vagina flogging.

That is why (young and pliant) girlfriends are the way to go.

for my education and learning, i thought #3 was, because of the red color, a link to some other site...

i'm deceived... :-(

A wise man once said: "Don't be pussy whipped! You gotta whip that pussy!"

It's ok bobt; we have all(well, most of us I'm sure)been in your position at one time or another. I still say due to the size of your "honey-do-list" you are entitled to get the April purchase in writing.

A wise man once said: This is supposed to be a family-friendly forum.

The forum is limited to pictures of kittens and puppies, with our message typed along side, from now on....

I would think that animal cruelty laws would apply here.

Wow, you guys are pretty brutal...LOL Considering the only thing I have worked on so far is the basement (which is really all mine) and my recording space, which i just finished putting down carpet tiles, plus the fact i just spent 1K on a G&L strat...i don't consider her request to wait a few months out of hand...LMAO

Some of us don't consider it out of hand at all.

Both sides of the coin, available 24/7 at the Axiom Message Boards.

We just have to remember that because of their oppression since time immemorial, a woman's opinion now counts as 5/4 of a man's.

I'd really like to know about your recording set-up!

Especially your studio monitors and hardware/software.

Any acoustic treatments?

I'm a studio rat myself. It's how I makes my livin'...

OK..this is going to be long LOL
First off i don't use a computer. I have a Korg 32 track recorder DS 32 or whatever they call it. I EQ everything with the Korg. I have a Yamaha PSR900 keyboard. I can get basically almost anything i want off that. VERY GOOD drums by the way.
Right now i'm running a 1/2 stack with greenbacks and a Carvin X100B head, that i put EL34's in, I also have a Peavey XXX combo..which i don't really like. I may pick up a Bogner Alchemist, but not sure at this point.
I use 57's for recording. Basically everything else is direct in.

The room i'm sure needs Foam and other things ..but have not finished it..so thats up in the air. Once i get the equipment in there..then i'll know. I'm also running a full PA..Peavey Colunms 2 15's with a horn on each side run by a Yamaha PA head.

I run a digitech RP1000, with a BC Rich 1987 ST3 loaded with EMG's, a G&L S-500, and a Dean Caddy. Not sure i will keep the RP..may go back to just pedals.

But thats pretty much the low down.