Axiom Home Page Forums General Discussion Home Theater Axioms vs. NHT for Home Theater - any thoughts?

"BTW...tonygeno's VP150 problem seems to be the exception, rather than the rule. Most VP150 owners have been very happy with theirs. ???? "

Which doesn't mean they don't sound the way I heard them. If you like the VP150, fine, but I heard what I heard, and unlike most in this forum I have auditioned many centers in my home including the VP150, Rocket RSC200, NHT M5, CSW MC500, Boston Acoustics VR920, CSW MC300, Vienna Acoustics Maestro, and Sonus Faber Solo Home among others. I have been exposed to centers of different designs and driver layouts and know frequency aberrations when I hear them.

That said, I was amazed at how close the M2i ($255 a pair) sounded to the NHT M5 ($900 the pair). If Ian could design a center with a real midrange below the tweeter and two side flanking woofers he would then IMHO have a giant killer system for an unbelievably competitive price.

Carolina:

I have T5s up front, an M5 center, M5s as side surrounds and L5s in the rear. I would go for an NAD receiver: more juice than the Marantz. If you can go with a vertical center, you might try M22s as left and rights, M2 (or 22) as center, and M2s and surrounds. This would be a killer system.

And I'm not the only guy here who advocates vertical centers. Horizontal centers are a compromise: most folks don't have room for a vertical center (or won't tolerate it on top of their TV) and most manufacturers don't have the drivers necessary for a properly designed horizontal center. You need a 3.5 or 4 inch midrange to run below a tweeter to keep the horizontal center a reasonable (under 8") height.

I wasn't suggesting that you didn't hear what you say you heard. I'm just saying that it may very well be something other than the speaker creating the issue you had. That's all.

With that budget, and if you decide on Axioms, would suggest the following...

M60ti mains
VP150 center or a pair of M2i's to pull center duty
QS8 surrounds
Hsu VTF-3 MKII sub
Rotel RSP-1068 processor
Rotel RB-1075 amp

That fits under your budget and would be mind blowing.

"I'm just saying that it may very well be something other than the speaker creating the issue you had. That's all."

Could be. But it is rather strange, if that were the case, that none of the other centers I've had exhibited such strange behavior, and none of the other centers had the unconventional driver layout of the VP150.

Is it "possible" that it was a combination of the VP150 and your room acoustics? I am a big fan of the theory that room acoustics are the "forgotten component" in good sound. I don't want to continue to beat what I perceive as a long-dead horse, but I also think that it does not reflect the consensus of most board members to continually reiterate your negative experience. The vast majority of VP150 owners who have taken the time to post their experiences are delighted. AND there is no substitute for listening in your own environment.

TomT,

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Is it "possible" that it was a combination of the VP150 and your room acoustics?

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The explanations are here and here.
There is nothing wrong with the vp150. You will measure the same effect with ANY speaker (electrostatics may be excluded) with pink noise especially as you move across the plane of a different driver type (e.g. tweeter vs woofer). The effect was a drop of 2dB from the extreme left to right at about 8' distance from the VP150 when i took measurements last week. Tonygeno's numbers started about there and climbed somehow.
I measured no such effect when using sound tones and no effect when playing dialogue or music. For some reason this physical limitation of all speakers bothers tonygeno, obviously far more with the vp150 than any other centre he has auditioned even though a pink noise audible difference is not entirely relevant to normal sound tones. In such case, the M2 or another short speaker might be a alternative for a centre channel, but it has its own artifacts with pink noise as well.
There was a link in that post on the subject of pink noise and how it works that should explain alot.

"...but I also think that it does not reflect the consensus of most board members to continually reiterate your negative experience."

Carolina asked for a comparison of the NHT and Axiom. I gave him it based on my experience. Perhaps there should be a forum rule that prohibits any discussion about other brands that does not show Axiom as the winner. Would that make you happy?

Geez people relax. Tony was not happy with his VP150, and said so. All I did was let Carolina know that his troubles with the VP150 were in the minority, and that most buyers have been thrilled with theirs.

The horse is officially dead...continuing to beat it, is just making a big mess.

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Perhaps there should be a forum rule that prohibits any discussion about other brands that does not show Axiom as the winner. Would that make you happy?

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That's an unfair statement. I think if you read through these boards you'll find that a great many brands are discussed and praised.

"That's an unfair statement. I think if you read through these boards you'll find that a great many brands are discussed and praised."

I agree. Which is why I responded to Carolina's query in the first place. Again I want to re-iterate this was my experience, YMMV.

No one is saying you can't criticize Axiom's offerings on this board. (which, I note, is different from certain other companies' boards and something I treasure about Axiom's.)

What I think people are saying, though, is that if you criticize something (be it Axiom, SVS, HSU, Magnepan, or whatever), make sure the criticism is fair and as well-tested as possible.

If I got the QS8s and I thought they had certain serious problems, I'd wonder if I was doing something wrong since lots of folks here seem to adore them and had no similar problems.

That's not to say that you shouldn't say the emperor has no clothes- if he indeed has no clothes-, but it's hard to say whether the problem you ran into was a fundamental problem with all VP150s or was due to other factors.