Axiom Home Page Forums General Discussion Home Theater Axiom ever consider making an outdoor subwoofer?

I have recently built a small back porch and I am looking for speakers for making an outdoor theater. The problem is there doesn't seem to be to many choices out there, not to mention quality choices. Anyway, I thought about using the axiom outdoor speakers, but there isn't anything close to what I would call a worthy subwoofer for outside anywhere. I understand this would most likely be a small market, but to have quality sound outside for summer movie nights would be awesome!

first idea that comes to mind is you could keep the sub on casters and move it outside or inside according to your needs.

Without room gain, a sub would need to be very large/very powerful/very expensive.

If you're really serious, you might want to look into the used professional PA market. You likely won't get the depth that you can get with a better "indoor" sub, but you'll get volume at least!

(but still bring it in when not in use!)

I think that without walls to contain the air you are vibrating, you would be looking at more of pro-audio gear.

EDIT:
Doh! Mark Sniped me.

What I would want is something that allows me to hear the low end of movie down around 25 hertz or so. I'm not looking for loud, just accurate to allow for the movie to pull me in. I hate loud and rattling like a car stereo. My area isn't that big either. I just know most of the stuff I see on the market is just plain terrible

the least you could do is put the sub against one wall; that would give you some gain compared to a free field position.

also, there are many subs that will put out good quality sound and good loudness at 25Hz or so; the main difference is that the volume on all speakers will be lower than in an indoor installation, and you will also get much less standing waves.

if you're looking for realistic sound levels, then you need loud, specially for the sub, remembering that the max. levels for movies is 105 dB SPL for the main speakers and 115 dB SPL for the sub.
you'll be lucky to get that outside unless you sit close to the speakers.

25Hz outside is a pretty big request.

Danley Sound Labs tapped horn loaded.

http://www.danleysoundlabs.com/tapped_horn.html

Ok, so a bit overboard, but lets just say I would like to watch a movie outside and be able to say that is what it is supposed to sound like without any speaker rattle or hiss. Would that be possible.

Is there a way to make an indoor speaker water proof and use it outside?

Even if you could, you canna change the laws of physics, laddie!

I'll reiterate that I would look to a commercial ("pro") unit such as this Mackie and just keep it on a mover's dolly.

Roll it out and plug it in as needed.

Umm, maybe I'm missing something here, but aren't all of the anechoic responses as stated on the Axiom product specs as measured from the outdoor tower at the Axiom plant? I know you'll give up volume and extension outdoors without the room gain, but you should still be getting some reasonable output, no? What am I missing? Why all the outdoor sub measurements then?

Boston Acoustics makes an interesting outdoor SW.

Their Voyager sub is discontinued, though.

if the OP decides to move the sub inside/outside, then i would suggest a cylinder sub, as it's about half the weight of the equivalent boxed sub.

have a look at this one, and read reviews too about it:
http://www.svsound.com/products-sub-cyl-pc13ultra.cfm


here's one review:
http://www.hometheaterhifi.com/subwoofer...fer-review.html

Yes, proper subwoofer measurements are either taken 2Pi (groundplane) or 4Pi (tower). This is done to eliminate the room and to properly compare subwoofer performance. However, the majority of subs out there won't do squat without room gain and rely heavily on it. For example 20 Hz at 100db is no more than a fart in the wind.

I think the mic is pretty close to the sub in those tests, too.

Ohio isn't that far from the Axiom plant. Maybe you could just feed your LFE channel over the internet up to Dwight and have them pump it out over the SWUT (SubWoofer Under Test) on the tower

You won't get full room gain but at worst you would get "ground gain" (sub is only radiating into a hemisphere rather than a sphere) and if you had a solid outside wall you could get at least half the output you would get in a room (eg -3db) which should make a pretty significant difference.

From a practical standpoint this should be do-able, and seems like it would be a pretty cool product. Downside is that ideally you would make it in some kind of inherently waterproof material (like the Algonquins) and that would have to be pretty thick/expensive for what is probably a pretty low volume product.

I guess this is another (wordy) vote for the moving dolly

Thanks BlueJay1 - that helps put in perspective.

Ken - good point about the mic placement, I completely overlooked that point.

Cheers,

So can someone explain to me that if i only sit around 6 to 8 feet away from the sub and speakers why somehow the sub wont work outside? I don't get it?


i understand room gain and all, but if my memory serves me correctly walls don't add that much gain to a sub that you can't hear it. If other companies have made outdoor subs with lower specs than what axiom makes for in home subs I do not get this argument that it cannot be done or for that matter heard outside.

Sure, JH; without the room gain(below the frequency of the longest room dimension)to increase the bottom end extension the lower limits of the sub will be essentially the same as when measured anechoically. At the 6-8' distance the sound level will fall off more quickly than it would inside, since there'd only be ground reflections to add to it, but it wouldn't disappear, and if you can solve the other problems mentioned with a sub outside, the effect should be satisfactory.

I have seen the above mentioned tower. Sadly, they wouldn't let me climb it.

If only you'd been wearing your petard.

I understand all of the difficulty getting the extreme low bass outside, but wouldn't there be a definite advantage to actually having a sub outside as opposed to not having one at all?

When accounting for budget constraints of the average person. The answer to your question Jhunt is No...


To keep a open localized area pressurized at a low frequency takes tremendous amounts of energy, which consequently is very expensive. To make an enclosure that would be weather resistant would require quite a bit of plastic engineering. Like the Algonquin's the cabinet would need to be made of injection molded plastic and re-enforced with internal bracing to stand up to the internal pressure.


i would say the biggest reason why you are having a hard time, is because of the limited demand for the product you are looking at. If the market isn't large enough it just isn't worth it for manufactures to enter that market.. That is where we are at with the out door HT market..

The largest outdoor speaker market is the pro/concert market, and that is why those are the only quality products available.

On the other hand, if you are just going to sit beside the outdoor subwoofer, I would think that most of those available for outdoor use would work for you.

Can this be done? Connect a bass guitar amp to the lfe output of a receiver and make it work like a sub woofer?

Sure, why not?

I would bet the elemental Designs A7-900 would work quite well outdoors, just build a small removable shelter to go around it to protect it from the elements. Ok, so a small shelter for this huge sub doesn't really equate.

Definition:

1. A small bell-shaped bomb used to breach a gate or wall.

2. A loud firecracker.

3. [French pétard, from Old French, from peter, to break wind, from pet, ...

I would hazard a guess you only get to wear your petard once, unless you are using old French...

Fred, Peter was using his usual quick and agile mind to suggest a whimsical solution to Andrew's problem. In the good old days(Middle Ages)the guy affixing the petard to the besieged castle, etc. would sometimes have it go off as he was doing so and the defenders would note with amusement as his body(or pieces thereof)flew through the air that he was "hoist by his own petard". Since Axiom wouldn't hoist Andrew up the tower, a petard might have been strong enough to do the trick.

Peter's wit intimidates me almost as much as Bob's.

For instance, I didn't get the above reference till JohnK explained it (thanks John!).

Of course then I remembered that it wasn't necessary for me to get references to the Middle Ages because WE'RE NOT LIVING IN THE FU**IN' MIDDLE AGES, ARE WE?

Yeah, but some of us remember our past life experiences better than others.

It just so happens, one of us HAD to be the "petard" guy.

Ooooh! Mark swore! And in caps! I guess archaic and moribund references REALLY piss him off. Great! Another place I have to walk on eggshells.

You know whose wit I miss? Bren's. He introduced me to the phrase back in 2004. (Damn, that was a long time ago...)

Can that be correct? He first registered on 12/10/03 and by 3/12/04 he had almost 3500 posts!!!!

WTH was going on here then? Too bad 2(-)6 missed that! He woulda been really peaved for pages worth.

At least Bren drops in from time to time, but not frequently enough, been a long time since his last post.

Speaking of lost Axiom souls, Mojo says hello to everyone.

Yeah, Peter; I remembered some of that old "petard" thread. I enjoyed discussing the damping factor question there. The little quip I made about "dynamitophiles" is something I haven't been able to use again in the last seven years, but for some reason the topic just doesn't seem to come up.

Jason, tell Mojo to visit us. I've been keeping his "Stunning Recordings" thread warm for him.

When did Axiom lose it's Mojo?

It would be nice if he would stop by. I remember a private message thread with him when he was comparing the SVS PB13 with the EP600. Inspired me to order the SVS. (During the initial stages of his comparison). Best sub I've owned.

I agree, best sub I have had the pleasure of using.

That was my sub Mojo used to make the comparison to. I hadn't even hooked it up in my own home before I took it down to his place so we could do a quick comparison which led to him doing a more thorough comparison.

I remember well!