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#363310 - 01/10/12 04:39 PM Re: Sealed vs Vented Subs...and impact [Re: alan]
Nick B Offline
aficionado

Registered: 08/05/06
Posts: 504
Originally Posted By: alan

The comparison you mention, with the 400 on top of an 800, is kind of specious, at least in a large room. The 400 was designed for deep bass extension in a small room, so it isn't capable of the same SPL as the larger EP800. If tactile impact were the criterion, the EP800 would win, simply because of its greater output capability.

Regards,
Alan


I am trying to really understand what contributes to impact, which I why I am comparing two very different sealed subwoofers. Both are sealed, but the EP800 can obviously play lower than the EP400 and at MUCH greater SPL levels. But, I was trying to take the extra extension and capabilities for much higher SPL's out of the comparison, by say comparing them in a quite small room and having some external EQ that cuts out the extra extension of the EP800. So, under these circumstances what would be the difference between the two subs in a bass heavy movie scene? Would we be able to feel the extra impact using the EP800 in a bass heavy action movie, in explosions, gunshots, trains passing by, etc.? As long as we aren't pushing the EP400 further than it can go. Or, is the reason for going moving up the Axiom line (or other subwoofer manufacters, as well) just a matter of extension and high SPL capabilities, needed as rooms get larger.

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#363323 - 01/10/12 07:41 PM Re: Sealed vs Vented Subs...and impact [Re: tomtuttle]
casey01 Offline
aficionado

Registered: 07/03/08
Posts: 852
Loc: Toronto
Originally Posted By: tomtuttle
casey, that's exactly the kind of well-reasoned, first-hand feedback that I find valuable, and that I think is a signature element of the Axiom forum. It is also the sort of thing that will get you torched at AVS.


Thank you for the complimentary response and that is why I rarely, if ever, view the AVS website. Far too many of the "contributors" and I use the term loosely, seem to want to spend much of their time doing hatchet jobs on equipment or products they "perceive" they don't like without actually ever having heard it. Rather than having meaningful, informative discourse about our hobby, much of that forum seems to prefer confrontation and very often unwarranted criticism that is useless to people who actually wish to possibly learn something.

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#363332 - 01/10/12 08:14 PM Re: Sealed vs Vented Subs...and impact [Re: casey01]
tomtuttle Offline
axiomite

Registered: 06/20/03
Posts: 8488
Loc: Tacoma
Amen. Sometimes I farm AVS for some specific technical information, but it's a terrible, joyless place to hang out.

Forgive me for not being able to keep track, but which subs are you using in your system at present?
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#363333 - 01/10/12 08:26 PM Re: Sealed vs Vented Subs...and impact [Re: tomtuttle]
CatBrat Offline
axiomite

Registered: 08/05/09
Posts: 6015
Loc: Milky Way Galaxy
Is AVS the same thing as avsforum.com, or something else?

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#363336 - 01/10/12 09:17 PM Re: Sealed vs Vented Subs...and impact [Re: CatBrat]
Gr8_White_North Offline
connoisseur

Registered: 07/12/09
Posts: 2281
Loc: Whitehorse YT
one in the same, if you've ever been there it will make sense. More arguing and conjecture than anything.
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#363342 - 01/10/12 09:59 PM Re: Sealed vs Vented Subs...and impact [Re: Nick B]
fredk Offline
axiomite

Registered: 12/06/07
Posts: 7786
Loc: Canada
Originally Posted By: Nick B
Or, is the reason for going moving up the Axiom line (or other subwoofer manufacters, as well) just a matter of extension and high SPL capabilities, needed as rooms get larger.


Yup. That's exactly it. You will benefit from lower extension in a small room as well. In movies, there is significant content below 20 Hz (kaboom! grin).

Think about it this way. If you take a ball of string and cut three sections to exactly 3" using a razor blade, scissors and a cleaver. If you mix them up and lay them side by side, can you tell which was cut by wach instrument? No. That is because the instrument used does not change the nature of what you have created.
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#363344 - 01/10/12 10:19 PM Re: Sealed vs Vented Subs...and impact [Re: fredk]
jakewash Offline
shareholder in the making

Registered: 12/26/03
Posts: 10415
Loc: Calgary, Alberta
NickB, for me I get more IMPACT from movies/music via my M80s and now VP160 than I ever have from my SVS PB13 Ultra. That impact, chest thump is from a higher frequency than most subs are set up well to play, either due to design, setup factors or any other numerous points. This desire for impact (as well as a little better lower midrange warmth) is what led me to purchase a full range speaker for my mains and now for my center. I get much more rumble, seat of the pants feel from my sub but again this is also due to my set up, crossover points etc.
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#363353 - 01/11/12 06:18 AM Re: Sealed vs Vented Subs...and impact [Re: fredk]
MarkSJohnson Offline
shareholder in the making

Registered: 09/27/04
Posts: 11445
Loc: Central NH
Originally Posted By: fredk

Think about it this way. If you take a ball of string and cut three sections to exactly 3" using a razor blade, scissors and a cleaver. If you mix them up and lay them side by side, can you tell which was cut by wach instrument? No. That is because the instrument used does not change the nature of what you have created.

Holy Crap!

After all these years, an easily-understood explanation of the String Theory!
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#363363 - 01/11/12 10:22 AM Re: Sealed vs Vented Subs...and impact [Re: jakewash]
Nick B Offline
aficionado

Registered: 08/05/06
Posts: 504
Originally Posted By: jakewash
NickB, for me I get more IMPACT from movies/music via my M80s and now VP160 than I ever have from my SVS PB13 Ultra. That impact, chest thump is from a higher frequency than most subs are set up well to play, either due to design, setup factors or any other numerous points. This desire for impact (as well as a little better lower midrange warmth) is what led me to purchase a full range speaker for my mains and now for my center. I get much more rumble, seat of the pants feel from my sub but again this is also due to my set up, crossover points etc.


This is a great answer. So chasing after the biggest and baddest sub for impact is sort of a waste of time. Not to say that there isn't a justification for the SVS PB13 Ultra. If you have a large room and/or want that sub 20Hz frequency response then that is a reason for a sub like the Ultra 13.

So you are saying that the chest thump is over 80Hz? What are you crossing over your center and fronts at?

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#363385 - 01/11/12 12:17 PM Re: Sealed vs Vented Subs...and impact [Re: jakewash]
casey01 Offline
aficionado

Registered: 07/03/08
Posts: 852
Loc: Toronto
When it comes to subs in general, over the years, I have seen settings on several of them whereby if you wanted that extra thump from movies the control was targeted in the 40>50Hz range, generally not down in the 20Hz area. With that low of a frequency, room interaction tends to be more critical in determining whether or not the sub can produce it and even if it can, one generally "feels" it as opposed to hearing it.

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