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#363392 - 01/11/12 12:52 PM Re: Sealed vs Vented Subs...and impact [Re: casey01]
J. B. Offline
connoisseur

Registered: 01/19/11
Posts: 1291
Loc: Quebec, Canada
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#363480 - 01/12/12 01:02 AM Re: Sealed vs Vented Subs...and impact [Re: J. B.]
jakewash Offline
shareholder in the making

Registered: 12/26/03
Posts: 10415
Loc: Calgary, Alberta
I disagree with that charts naming scheme my sub can hit 15hz with authority and I never feel it in my chest. I think that chest thump most people are looking for is listed being in the bottom - boom/punch area and depending on your room can be hard to reproduce.

All I know is once I moved up to the M80s I was getting more in the way of chest thump when watching movies, listening to music etc. and adding the VP180 really added some impact with multichannel listening, my VP160 slightly less so than the 180(from what I can remember) but still adds more to the effect.
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#363708 - 01/13/12 07:40 PM Re: Sealed vs Vented Subs...and impact [Re: jakewash]
fredk Offline
axiomite

Registered: 12/06/07
Posts: 7786
Loc: Canada
Originally Posted By: jakewash
I disagree with that charts naming scheme my sub can hit 15hz with authority and I never feel it in my chest. I think that chest thump most people are looking for is listed being in the bottom - boom/punch area and depending on your room can be hard to reproduce.

All I know is once I moved up to the M80s I was getting more in the way of chest thump when watching movies, listening to music etc. and adding the VP180 really added some impact with multichannel listening, my VP160 slightly less so than the 180(from what I can remember) but still adds more to the effect.

I think you are correct Jay. I seem to remember that chest thump is up in the 60-150 Hz range, which explains why you feel it with your mains and center.
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#363725 - 01/13/12 10:21 PM Re: Sealed vs Vented Subs...and impact [Re: fredk]
fredk Offline
axiomite

Registered: 12/06/07
Posts: 7786
Loc: Canada
Here's another thing to chew on:

"The main problem with quantifying 'fast' versus 'slow' bass is that the cues that our ear/brain use to make that determination don't come from the frequencies below 80 Hz, they come from the frequencies from roughly 80 to 500Hz. So yes, transient response is very important, but not the transient response of the subs, but rather the transient response of the midbasses. Earl Geddes would have a field day over this one."

from site.

A lot of what is 'commonly known' about subs is incorrect.
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#363748 - 01/14/12 01:10 PM Re: Sealed vs Vented Subs...and impact [Re: fredk]
Nick B Offline
aficionado

Registered: 08/05/06
Posts: 504
Originally Posted By: fredk
Here's another thing to chew on:

"The main problem with quantifying 'fast' versus 'slow' bass is that the cues that our ear/brain use to make that determination don't come from the frequencies below 80 Hz, they come from the frequencies from roughly 80 to 500Hz. So yes, transient response is very important, but not the transient response of the subs, but rather the transient response of the midbasses. Earl Geddes would have a field day over this one."

from site.

A lot of what is 'commonly known' about subs is incorrect.


If this is true, then it is pretty scary what many professional reviewers are saying. They will often discuss the how "slow" and "fast" the bass of the subwoofer is. Yet many of them probably have the crossover set at 80Hz. So what are they hearing exactly? Maybe they are continuing the "well known" myth (or fact I don't know) that sealed subs have "faster" bass and ported have "slower" bass.

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#363749 - 01/14/12 01:26 PM Re: Sealed vs Vented Subs...and impact [Re: Nick B]
JBall Offline
veteran

Registered: 11/11/10
Posts: 141
I like sealed subs for music b/c you don't get port noise but they usually don't have as much depth for movies. A hybrid sub switching between sealed/ported may make us all happy. Anyone try the HSU VTF15H?

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#363752 - 01/14/12 01:50 PM Re: Sealed vs Vented Subs...and impact [Re: JBall]
fredk Offline
axiomite

Registered: 12/06/07
Posts: 7786
Loc: Canada
Nick. Yes, what some reviewers write is scary.

jball. Port noise is a potential downside to a ported design if it is not well executed, or the sub is pushed beyond its capabilities, but it is not an inevitable outcome of the design.

I hear absolutely no port noise in my EP350 and it is absolutely faithful in its music reproduction.

FWIW, a passive radiator design gives you some of the advantages of sealed (smaller size, absolutely no risk of port noise) and some of the advantages of ported (efficiency/extension gains from better air mass coupling). The downside here is the cost of the radiator, which is a sub driver without the motor.
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#363756 - 01/14/12 02:25 PM Re: Sealed vs Vented Subs...and impact [Re: fredk]
J. B. Offline
connoisseur

Registered: 01/19/11
Posts: 1291
Loc: Quebec, Canada
i always use my sub tuned to 16 Hz (one foam plug used).
on the loudest parts of:
Hanna / Band of Brothers / WOTW / Super 8 / Master & Commander DVD and T4, i have never heard wind noise from the ports; and this with playback levels always at Reference.
i also run my sub 3 dB hot relative to Odyssey calibration.
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See: http://www.blu-ray.com/community/gallery.php?member=Gelli
or: Axiom Gallery

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#363874 - 01/16/12 10:16 AM Re: Sealed vs Vented Subs...and impact [Re: J. B.]
Murph Offline
axiomite

Registered: 10/05/06
Posts: 6955
Loc: PEI, Canada
The only time I ever heard port noise on my EP500 with even serious bass was when there was a cat toy stuck deep in it. After contacting Axiom for help, I felt pretty silly when I discovered the true cause.
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#363875 - 01/16/12 10:28 AM Re: Sealed vs Vented Subs...and impact [Re: fredk]
Nick B Offline
aficionado

Registered: 08/05/06
Posts: 504
Originally Posted By: fredk
Originally Posted By: jakewash
I disagree with that charts naming scheme my sub can hit 15hz with authority and I never feel it in my chest. I think that chest thump most people are looking for is listed being in the bottom - boom/punch area and depending on your room can be hard to reproduce.

All I know is once I moved up to the M80s I was getting more in the way of chest thump when watching movies, listening to music etc. and adding the VP180 really added some impact with multichannel listening, my VP160 slightly less so than the 180(from what I can remember) but still adds more to the effect.

I think you are correct Jay. I seem to remember that chest thump is up in the 60-150 Hz range, which explains why you feel it with your mains and center.


I was thinking about the area of the driver in the SVS Ultra 13 vs the 4 Axiom 6.5 inch bass drivers. The area of the SVS driver is pi/4 * 13^2 = 132.7 (approximately). The area of the 4 Axiom drivers is 4*(pi/4)*6.5^2 = 132.7 (approximately) (I thought is was kind of a funny coincidence when the numbers came out exactly the same). So if the SVS is handling the bass in 60Hz to 80Hz range, or the Axioms are handling the bass in that region, there should be no difference in the amount of air that is being moved (this is a bit of an oversimplification since both the SVS and the Axioms are ported and so the size of the port and the size of the enclosure are disregarded, and we are comparing them as if they are sealed this way). So there doesn't seem to be any reason why there would be more chest thump if the Axioms are handling the 60Hz to 80Hz range, or the SVS is. This leads me to believe that it must be 80Hz to 150Hz that is giving that chest thump.

On the other hand, when jakewash moved up to the larger VP160, center channel speaker, and maybe set the crossover 60Hz or lower, then there would be more air moved by the front speakers and center channel, in comparison to just the one SVS 13" driver. If he were to go with multiple subs, then that would no longer be the case and maybe the more chest thump would come from letting the dual subs handle the 60Hz to 80Hz region, by setting the crossover for the front speakers at 80Hz.

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