Axiom Home Page Forums General Discussion Home Theater Purchasing Advice...Please!

Okay everyone...it's not all here. But I have everything figured out but the receiver. When everything comes in from layaway I'll have the VP150, M60s, QS8s, and perhaps M2 for rear instead of QS8s...okay...so I almost have everything figured out. AND...I want to get the SVS PB2-Plus for my sub (I can't wait to try it out). So money is tight as you can imagine after all the splurging. But one must have a receiver right?!? So I'm looking at two models from Harman Kardon...the AVR-7200 and this years AVR 630. So...what's say you? The 7200 has more power, but will I use it with my speakers being so high efficiency? I like the 630 because the new models look cool but am willing to go either way. The 7200 uses a Torodial power supply and the 630 has one called El Core. Will I care? Please advise

I think I would put more into my receiver than my sub.

How big is your room? You could possibly go to a PB2-ISD or VTF-2MK2 and put the saved money in to the receiver.

My room is 15x20 ft. with 15-20 ft. cathedral ceilings.

aaaaaargh .....colour me green every time I look at your US HK prices.

I don't think the power levels will make any real difference so you might as well base it on other features or cosmetics. The 7200 is VERY large, a little over 20" deep. That unit was almost $2k when it first came out and now it's around $800 makes a lot of sense to buy it now while it is still available. If I had to chose I'd go with the 7200.

Just a thought, if you want a SVS then get a SVS. Two years from now you'll probably still have the same subwoofer and by then the money difference will be meaningless.

Yeah. Regarding the sub, I don't think I could possibly go wrong. It'll probably last forever. So what was your reasoning for picking the 7200 yourself Ford?

I had the same choice to make as you, and I went with the 630. At the time of purchase the 7200 was a little over $200 more than the 630, and I couldn't justify the extra power being worth ~$200 to me. Also, the look of the 630 was much preferred to the 7200, so if you are trying to please someone else, that can always be a factor. I don't think you can go wrong with either.

Purely for the value, that's a lot of receiver for $800, About $300 less than the 630. I do prefer the looks of the 630 though.

Funny, I prefer the looks of the 7200/525/325/etc series to the new ones. Of course, that could be because I've got one of the old ones...

I'd go with the 7200. It's more powerful, and the new x30 series doesn't have that many new features.

I considered both, and ended up with the 630. For me, the difference ended up being the rave reviews I read about DPLIIx. Supposedly, it is a "must have" DSP. The 630 will be upgradable.

It will play louder than I care to listen, so I don't miss the difference in power.

Everyone who has seen it mentions how nice the 630 looks. The blue volume knob does look nice at night. That had nothing to do with my decision to purchase the 630.

I got it for $716 after shipping and a $50 mail in rebate. The 7200 was still around $900 back then.

A question about Harmon Kardon. Why is it that all of their recievers seem so underpowered in their specs? Do they use a different power rating than other companies such as Denon, Pioneer or others?

Why is their top of the line reciever 90-100 Watts/ channel when most other companies have mid-line recievers with 110-130 watts/ channel and top of the line recievers with 200 Watts/ channel.

Just a question I have always had about their specs.

Many of the Harman receivers are rated under their real output. Denon, Pioneer and other brands of receivers are often overrated (but not always). (source)

For example the Denon 2802 is rated at 90x6 but really outputs only 61x6 (or 74x5).

Jason

Is the 630 really going to have upgradability to Dolby Pro Logic IIx?

Yes. So is the 430 I believe. Numerous people have confirmed this on other forums, and I have as well, with H/K. It will be done via the RS-232 port according to the customer service rep I spoke with.

oops I got the wrong price for the 630, One Call has it for $738.

The one problem I have with the H/K receivers is that they have too many lights. Other than that, I think they look very slick.

Yup...I own a 525 and love it, but I also think it has too many lights.

Well if there is too many lights there is a way to Dim it for u read teh manual lol

too bright? then maybe you could just squint to dim the lights...

black electrical tape?

Tweedly is right, there is an option on the 630 (and I assume the 430 as well) that allows you to set the front panel to fade out after a few seconds. All that's left is the blue light coming from around the volume control and power switch. It's that cool blue color that they use in airport taxiway markings. I've always wanted to put them down the sides of my driveway...

On the 630, to get rid of all the lights all you have to do is press the "DIM" button on the remote twice and that will turn off all the lights on the front panel excluding the blue power button light. If you press it once, it will dim the volume know along with the information display.

But to each his own.

Does the 7200 provide such dimming options?

I honestly don't have the slightest idea, but I am sure if you download the pdf of the owners manual it would give some insight into it.

After looking through the pdf, I don;t see any way to do this on the 7200. I may have skipped over it, but I do not see any mention of it in the manual, or any corresponding button on the remote.

For any AVR630 owners, I have another question. I was reading over the manual last night about the crossover features on the 630 and here's my confusion. Can you use all the nifty crossovers on a source connected with RCA's (analog) or does the connection have to be a digital connection. The manual stated that they can only be used with a "digital source". I'm wondering about this because I'm looking at receivers to use for multichannel audio mostly. Thanks.

Jason, since no 630 owner has replied yet, I took a quick look at the manual. Isn't your question answered on p.29 where it states that selecting the 6 or 8 channel "DVD Audio" inputs converts the analog signals to digital and therefore allows them to be subject to the full bass management features?

Yep, JohnK is right. If you select 6 channel direct, there is no analog to digital conversion, and bass management is handled by the imput source. If you select 6 channel DVD Audio, input is converted to digital so that you can use bass management on the receiver.

Hope that answered your question(s).

AH...you clarified exactly what I was thinking. Thanks for the answers. I guess I'll go with the other receiver that I was considering (NAD T762) and get an Outlaw ICBM for all the bass management. Especially since music will be the top priority. Thanks as always.

Jason, aren't we on the same page yet? The answers confirmed that the 630 will do exactly what you appear to want on bass management for multi-channel music.

I'm wondering if we are on the same page. From what I've learned about receivers (mostly from reading this forum) an analog connection means that your source (i.e.CD player) does the processing and a digital connection passing the processing to the receiver. It seems that in most cases it's best to let the source do the processing for music and this is what I would like to do as well. IMHO I think that I would gain a great advantage and it would simplify things a bit by using an ICBM because I would gain global bass management and wouldn't have to worry about which listening mode I'm in. I guess you could say I'm being a control freak *wink* The only digital connection would be for watching movies. However, taking a second read over the manual, it sounds like the AVR630's bass management IS global, giving me the same amount of control as using an ICBM. So it looks like this comes down to the question of which receiver is the better music performer (the HK AVR630 or the NAD T762) My gut feeling is that the NAD would be a tad stronger because of it's overall power ratings and design. I also remember reading someone's comparison between HK and NAD and they're opinion was that the NAD was better for music. Now if I have this completely wrong please let me know. Thanks for all the help.

Only your own ears can tell you whats better for music for YOU. Not what someone posted on a forum. You can learn everything you ever want to know about a receiver on the internet except what its going to sound like to YOU!!!

I learned something truely sad today. Both the H/K 7200 and the 630 have "drop-out" bug when you start a movie or flip channels on HDTV. Apparently the receiver will grab the sound (for example DD and DTS), then drop out for 2-3 seconds, then come back in. Most disturbing, especially for units above the $1000 mark. Now what is a Misfit Toy to do? And apparently one other issue is regarding not decoding DTS-ES discrete and Matrix but using DTS + Neo:6? I know less about that one. Anyways, any suggestions? Should I stick with H/K regardless...or does anyone have any great recommendations?

The drop out is not really a "drop out." It takes the receiver a second or two too lock onto the digital signal and once it locks on to it, it never "drops out." To some it may be an annoyance, to me it was a mute point. Its not very consistent in its happening in my case. It happens maybe 50% of the time, the same disc with the same source isn't always consistent either. Sometimes, it will start right away, other times it will take a second or two for the receiver to lock onto the audio signal. I wouldn;t dismiss the receiver because of this. Also in the next few weeks an upgrade will be available for DPLIIx, which will be user upgradeable, and possibly a firmware fix for the "lockon" issue you talk about.

As to the second concern you have, I don't have any rear surrounds so I will leave that to someone else.

And with concern to the $1000 price, visit onecall.com and find both for under $840 shipped.

AS for other receivers, there seem to be lots of Yamaha fanboys on here. Both the 1400 and 2400 are very good receivers. Along with the Denon 3803 and Pioneer Elite 53tx. Those seem to be the most mentioned around the $1000 price mark.

Anyone know if the 525s will be upgradeable as well? I've got an RS232 port, too...

As for this drop out, I've never encountered such a thing, but I also don't have HDTV. Is that the only place where this allegedly happens?

I can answer that one. Neither the 525 nor the 7200 are upgradable, despite their rs232 port on the back. Straight from H/K themselves. Sorry.

Eh, the big jerks. Oh well. I don't have surround speakers yet, so I guess it doesn't matter!

"to me it was a mute point"

No pun intended, right?

To my knowledge the 525 didn't have that issue. It's only on the 7200, 630 and the 430. These models use the "Cirrus" logic as opposed to "Crystal" logic for their DSPs. It's based on the extension processors. Apparently (for example) you have a movie in DTS-ES. Well the first processor picks up DTS 6.1, then the second processor picks up your 7th channel and adds another processing to it (Neo:6). Here is where the delay is.

Ahem.

Neener neener.

:-D

In reply to:

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To some it may be an annoyance, to me it was a mute point

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My sincere apologies, but I just can't help myself:

moot

(Remember the Entmoot in Lord of the Rings?)

Sorry kcarlile. Well you're better off then I am. I don't even have a receiver! Nobody can top that!

That's a bummer. I have a halfway/somtimes working Toshiba SD770 that you can have! (of course, it's over 20 years old, and the left channel doesn't work unless you jiggle the knobs just right, and most of the inputs don't work...)

You can't have my Marantz 2220B.

There, I think I've done my hijacking duty. :-P That's what keeps this place fun.

believe they were discussing audio drop out, so mute, used in jest was the proper syntax. feel free to correct me if i'm wrong.
dan

At least some people got the humor in the "mute point" phrase.

Again, misfit, only you know how much this will bother you in the future. To me, like I said before, I could care less. But others it bothered them enough to return their receivers.

While we're nitpicking.....

I think the phrase is "I *couldn't* care less." Meaning that in no way could you care any less than you do about something, like this post for example.

Oh and I liked the "mute point" bit personally.

Oh no! Look what I've started!

Peter everytime you correct someone's grammar I picture you as an old school teacher wandering the room with a ruler, just waiting to smack some unsuspecting student on the knuckles with it. You've swatted quite a few knuckles around here.

But I actually could "care less" about it. Anyways......

Misfit_Toy,

I own the 525, and it also suffers from the audio mute problem. I must admit it's rather annoying. As a matter of fact, I'll probably get a Denon or Yammie next time (they don't have this issue since they don't have the Cirrus DSP).

Anytime the receiver changes processing modes (for example, from DPLII to DD) there is a 2 - 3 second mute. Harman's official explanation for this is the receiver mutes the audio while it is changing DSP modes, to avoid hearing the random noise that can occur during the mode change. But then a few months ago they stated they are working on a fix for the current models.

On a DVD such as Monsters, Inc., you won't be able to hear the first few seconds of the THX intro because the receiver is switching from DPLII (in the DVD menu) to DD (in the THX intro). Not really a big deal, just annoying.

Another example is the DTS 6.1 track on the Extended Edition LOTR:TTT, you can't hear the first few seconds of music in the movie because the receiver is switching to DTS mode, which seems to take a little longer than switching to DD mode.

And while surfing channels on a cable box using the digital audio output, when you land on a program that is encoded in DD, there is a mute while the receiver is changing to DD mode, then another mute when you switch to the next channel that is in analog. This doesn't sound like a big deal, but it gets annoying when channel surfing.

The other night while watching Sopranos I couldn't hear the first few seconds of next week's preview because my 525 was switching from DD to DPLII mode.

[/end_rant]

Jason

And there is an example of someone who it bothers. Only you know how much it will bother you.

Yes...I think you've just embodied my fear. Thank you.

My Rotel does the same thing. It is annoying, but I simply chapter stop back to the begining if I feel I must hear every second.

When I was in grade school, I had the nickname "Mr. Technical" -- you think it was justified?

channel surfing? what's that? I love my Tivo.

The 525(I own one) does have the same issue....but it is really a non-issue.

On that note curtis (and other H/K owners) do they utilize DTS-ES Discrete and just duplicate the 6th channel over to the 7th channel? Because it looks like it's DTS + Neo:6. I guess I'm clueless as to what that means. I just like there being the original encoding (DD-EX, DTS-ES), and just having the open 6th and 7th channels matrixed. Hope that all makes sense. And I thank you

I'm a little late, but Pete, I agree with the points you made relative to grammar. You certainly said a mootfull.

I have no idea what you're talking amoot.

Lets mute this conversation and talk about some receivers.

Mmmph!