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#372203 - 04/06/12 02:14 PM axiom and other forums
john2013 Offline

Registered: 04/06/12
Posts: 4
Please read with an open mind before passing judgment. I know there has been alot of stuff going on here and @ the other forums and I thought I would post my thoughts from the other side. Sometimes you have to look @ stuff from another angle to see what might be happening. I will start with the negative stuff before moving on to the better stuff, so please just bear with me.

I have read that axiom are comparable to the paradigm studios, and being a studio owner I spent more money on these and belive in the product. Lets say that might offend me and also the monitor series owners as well. I read that alan believes that they sound as good as the sigs, which now just maybe that has offended the paradigm sig owners.

I did read also from alan negative comments towards klipsch which might offend klipsch owners. I am not putting down alan so again please bear with me. I believe that they are decent products myself. Also jc has made negative comments about paradigm and also over the last few years alot of negative comments from axiom owners towards paradigm here or on other forums and I am not accusing anyone here. You had a 30th anniversary and in a dbt the other more expensive speaker lost which could also offend them and also seem biased. I am just trying to point out how some of this could happen if you were looking at it from the other side.

My dealer does not put down others speakers which I did find refreshing and trys to sell what they have on their own merit. Myself I dislike on other forums when they will only suggest speakers that they own when just maybe that another brand might be best suited for that person.

I did talk to brent twice and he gave honest answers and I felt comfortable talking to him. Just maybe when it was originally stated the axioms have a comparable sound to paradigm as both were part of the nrc, but then moved to that they have a simular sound to the studio. I also think that people might get tired of the term similarly good.

Ian seems like a nice guy and I have not seen negative comments for him. I get the impression that he just likes to build speakers and to make the best speakers he can. So when people get offended they will look for any reason valid or not. example the vp150, just maybe it is not the best design, but that is ok as you now have the 160 and 180. A company has to make mistakes, for them to grow and I am not saying the vp150 is a mistake just trying to give you something to think about.

Has Ian ever seen something that one of you have said and thought jeez, I wish my guys would not have said that or maybe they could have worded in a different way. maybe if everyone just took a step back and took a deep breath that it might be a good start. Maybe it could be what you said or how you said it. we all are in this for the same reason for the love of speakers. All this is fixable and maybe if when on the other forums to just let some things slide for awhile and just have some fun then we might all just get along. again I not bashing alan or jc just trying to give food for thought. I am sure all of you just want the best for Ian and axiom and maye you just need a fresh start and this might be a great time for that.

If you wish me not to post here then I can take the hint from your following posts. If I have offend anyone than I do apologize as this is not my intention. If you wanted to know who I am on the avs forum I would gladly tell you. I have travelled many times to cottage country and If I got up there again I would like to see tha axiom factory. I know it gets frustrating from both sides and I for one would like to see that change as we have the same hobby. Maybe if we met in a coffee shop you might just say hey, he seems like a nice guy who has the same interests that we do.

I really don`t like posting too much as it takes time away from my hobby, I hope things all work out in the end. Maybe Ian will read this and maybe even post his thoughts as I would find that interesting.

On that note I hope you guys and gals have a enjoyable holiday weekend and maybe we can talk again here or even on the avs forum.

Thank you, and again I sorry if I offended anyone.

#372206 - 04/06/12 02:28 PM Re: axiom and other forums [Re: john2013]
MarkSJohnson Offline
shareholder in the making

Registered: 09/27/04
Posts: 11445
Loc: Central NH
Well stated... I can't imagine anyone being offended by your post. Thank you for taking the time to write so eloquently. I understand your viewpoint.

Just to throw out one tidbit, for what it's worth: I think that the reason that there are so many comparisons of Axioms to other speakers is because potential buyers are sometimes hesitant to order speakers on a trial basis. Being here since 2004, I've seen many potential buyers who come here with "what do they sound like?" and "What do they compare to?" questions.

I'm not saying that those answers were given in an appropriate, nor inappropriate way. I'm simply saying that an internet-direct company necessarily begs much more "comparison" questions than one which is sold, and may be auditioned, in a B&M store.

Again, welcome to the forum and thanks for a thought-provoking, "Olive Branch" of a post! smile
::::::: No disrespect to Axiom, but my favorite woofer is my yellow lab :::::::

#372210 - 04/06/12 02:34 PM Re: axiom and other forums [Re: john2013]
SirQuack Offline
shareholder in the making

Registered: 01/29/04
Posts: 13669
Loc: Iowa
These are interesting comments, especially regarding Paradigm. In the many years I've been a part of this forum, the comments I've read is how similar Axiom and Paradigm sound in comparison. It is not a suprise since they come from some of the same design roots at the NRC. I've posted in the past back when I was looking at speakers that at the time, the Axioms were very similar sounding to the Paradigm Studio models, and in a demo I was a part of overall sounded better than the monitor series.

To many, Klipsh horn design can bring about a harsh sounding experience to the ears, especially at louder levels. Again, I had the pleasure of demoing some RFII's back in the day and did not like the fatigue I experience after a 2hour movie.

These are the types of things others have commented on as well, so not sure what your referring to when you talk about all the negative, or at least what you perceive as negative, comments from the people you mention.

And yes, as part of the Axiom council, I can assure you if Ian finds something said by one of his employees to be off color, to the competitors, he would be tactful in discussing the issue.

Often comments can be misunderstood over forums as you are not hearing the context of the message, as if you were talking to the person. One person may feel another person is being sarcastic, when in fact he is being funny.

Oh well, this is interesting timing on your post, that is for sure.
M80s VP180 4xM22ow 4xM3ic EP600 2xEP350
AnthemAVM60 Outlaw7700 EmoA500 Epson5040UB SonyUBPX800

#372216 - 04/06/12 02:39 PM Re: axiom and other forums [Re: john2013]
billy p Offline

Registered: 08/25/09
Posts: 179
Loc: Markham, Ont
Wow great post and welcome to the forum. I kind of recognize who you are from your posts at AVS and I've seen those remarks against other brands from people here that rub me the wrong what is the biggest difference between the Studio 100's and the M80's about 1000.00.... frown

#372217 - 04/06/12 02:40 PM Re: axiom and other forums [Re: john2013]
tomtuttle Offline

Registered: 06/20/03
Posts: 8488
Loc: Tacoma
Unless you've actually heard both, I think it's problematic if you're "offended" by someone saying that Axioms are "comparable" to Paradigm speakers.

People here just want to have fun, and are typically enthusiastic when others relate their experiences in positive terms. It's absolutely cool to say "I love my Paradigms and here's why..." It's absolutely uncool - on the Axiom forum - to say "my Paradigms blow Axioms away and Ian's designs are stupid".

Context. First person. Experience. Humility. Open-mindedness. Positivity.
bibere usque ad hilaritatem

#372225 - 04/06/12 02:58 PM Re: axiom and other forums [Re: john2013]
nickbuol Offline

Registered: 09/16/04
Posts: 5396
Loc: Marion, IA
Thanks for the post John.

I've heard some nice Paradigm setups before, but in different lines and never in an A/B setup to ever feel justified to make a comment myself about how they compare. Paradigm makes some darn good speakers. I'm glad I have my Axioms, but at the same time that isn't a bad reflection on the Paradigm product lines.

As for Klipsh, long term, I don't care for the horn design. My father-in-law has done quite a bit of audio-modeling (if that is the right term) for medium to larger venues before, and he likes the horn design for large spaces that benefit from a P.A. type of system. Transfer that into a smaller space like a living room or home theater, and there are issues to overcome. I am absolutely not saying that Klipsh hasn't overcome many/most of them, just that after watching Toy Story 2 back when it first came out on DVD at a neighbors house, what I would call "horn-harshness" was a bit hard, and even the owner said that he likes to turn the volume down as the movie goes on.

Then again, this was in a large 2-story family room, but not treated or anything. I don't even know if the guy tried to tune anything. Because of such, this is the first and only post (that I recall) where I have ever posted my experience with Klipsh speakers. I am far from an expert, and I can only reflect things in my terms.

Let it be know though that watching Toy Story 2 at his house is what convinced me to have my home theater V2 instead of just a TV and some small speaker setup. It is also what ultimately led me to Axiom. So how can I be mad about that? I'm not.

Again, no slams at all to Paradigm or Klipsh. Different designs, difference audio outcomes, many happy customers. Axiom is the same. Different design, different audio outcomes, and many happy customers.
2-M60s, VP180, 8-M3s, SVS 20-39PCi, DIY Sub, 8-Shakers, JVC RS45, Anthem MRX-1120

#372228 - 04/06/12 03:00 PM Re: axiom and other forums [Re: tomtuttle]
pmbuko Offline
shareholder in the making

Registered: 04/02/03
Posts: 16437
Loc: Ben Lomond, California
Exactly, Tom. Talk from personal experience. If you, personally, have a specific issue with your Axiom speakers and you present your complaints in a non-derisive fashion, you will be treated with respect. The golden rule applies universally.

What absolutely should not be tolerated and should be called out every damn time are the irrational, hateful posters who obviously have an axe to grind. Many of us treat the Axiom Forum as our virtual family room. We come here to hang out with friends that geography does its best to keep us apart from. How would you feel if someone walked in your front door, unzipped their fly, and micturated all over your rug -- a rug that really tied the room together?

If we're defensive, it's because we love this place and it's worthy of our attention.
I can explain it to you but I can't understand it for you.

#372243 - 04/06/12 03:31 PM Re: axiom and other forums [Re: john2013]
Wid Offline

Registered: 06/22/03
Posts: 6832
Loc: The Peoples Republic of Il.

I think a good starting point for John would be

BTW, welcome aboard.

"A fear of weapons is a sign of retarded sexual and emotional maturity." Sigmund Freud

#372244 - 04/06/12 03:31 PM Re: axiom and other forums [Re: john2013]
jakewash Offline
shareholder in the making

Registered: 12/26/03
Posts: 10420
Loc: Calgary, Alberta
Welcome to the forum John, come back and play with the rest of us once in awhile.

The recent events has made me think about my postings over the years, here and else where and I hope to have come across as someone looking for the best sound for the money I can find and perhaps even somewhat knowledgeable about audio.

I like this place and the people here, this is why I keep coming back.
M80 v2
VP160 v3
QS8 v2
PB13 Ultra
Denon 3808
Samsung 85" Q70

#372247 - 04/06/12 03:41 PM Re: axiom and other forums [Re: Wid]
Dduval Offline

Registered: 01/14/09
Posts: 349
Originally Posted By: Wid

I think a good starting point for John would be

BTW, welcome aboard.

Yep, what he said...
M80's, QS8's, M22's, CHT SHO-10, Dual CHT SS-18.1's, Onkyo NR3008, Mitsubishi WD-73740

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