Axiom Home Page Forums General Discussion Home Theater Pairing Svs pb12 with ep500

I'm thinking about adding a second sub in with my ep 500. I'd love an ep800, but that's not in my budget. Id like to stay close to $700 for my second sub. I'm eyeballing the SVS PB12 NSD. Anyone have comments regarding using these two subs together?

Thanks

http://www.svsound.com/view-all?page=shop.product_details&flypage=flypage.tpl&product_id=14

David, why not wait a little bit longer and get a second ep 500?

I haven't heard the svs, but based on specs and reviews I honestly can't see why the ep500 is nearly $500 more unless I am missing something. Matching looks don't matter as I can have my ep500 up front with the rest of my axioms, then put my second sub at the back of the room. I'm open to suggestions, and would definitel love to go for axiom. However, at my target price point I think I should consider all options. I have my heart set on an ep800 some day, but not now.

Plus, the more I save on the sub the sooner I can convince the boss I need an axiom 3 channel amp

Having only heard the EP600 I agree that while good subs I don't see as much value in the Axioms as say brands like SVS which I've also heard but only at low volumes unfortunately so I can't really give you an opinion on it.

Yeah, I've been extremely happy with my ep500 over the last 5 years, just dont want to dish out $1200 for a second sub right now.

I have a SVS PC12+ myself, to me, it's very value for money for a lot of LFE.

I have heard the SB12NSD as well, not shabby at all with that price, however I would add a lil more to get the Rythmik F12 (sealed)($874)

http://rythmikaudio.com/F12_specs.html

Here again, for those concerned about domestic manufacturing, I would suspect that much of the difference in price is because the SVS is made in the Far East and the EP500 is made in Canada(N/A).

Hmmm, I thought they were both made in china nowadays.

The issue of whether Axiom or SVS is a better value, isn't as important here. I don't have experience with mixing two subs of different brands, but from what others have said and articles I have read on the subject, I think that it is quite important to match them as close as possible. Like for example if you wanted to get an ep600 or ep800, I think that they would blend well together and definitely smooth out the bass from 20Hz up to the crossover well. When I go with multiple subs I am definitely going to make sure that they match. Right now I have an Outlaw LFM1. Since releasing it they have replaced the sub with an LFM1-Plus and LFM1-EX. I imagine either the Plus or EX would blend very well with the original Outlaw sub since they have same driver, cabinet volume (unless I'm mistaken) and nearly the same amp. They only slightly upgraded the amp and added some EQ so that you could plug ports and get a lower frequency response.

I too am a little bit torn though, since the SVS sub you mentioned seems like a slightly better sub to me than the Outlaw LFM1-EX. But, if I'd go with the SVS I'd buy them as a pair and either sell the Outlaw sub, or use it in another room (you can't have too many subs). Anyways, you may be able to do a similar thing. If you really want to go with the SVS subs, then buy them as a pair and sell your Axiom sub. What you get from the Axiom sub should probably make it so that you only spend about $700 or $800 like you wanted to in the first place. You would still have more headroom than before and if you place them properly the bass should be nice and smooth at every seat (which is the whole point anyways).

I definitely don't have any plans on giving up my ep 500, so perhaps I'm better off going with another axiom sub...

I'm going to disagree with you on this one if you use any competently designed sub. A musical note has no idea what brand sub it comes out of.

I suspect that a lot of people attribute issues related to the room or the quality of the subs selected to 'blending' issues.

I am in full agreement with you about this one, much ado about nothing. I have FOUR subs from three different manufacturers and as long as there is "some" similarity in capability(power(SPL) and low HZ level), there should be no issues. Location, matching volume levels and proper phase adjustment are much more important than whether or not they are from the same manufacturer.

The SVS sub is close in specs, power, etc. to the ep500.

Casey and Fred,

Yes I agree with you that if the subs are similar in performance that and they are properly placed it will probably smooth out the frequency response at each seat. But, if he is going through the expense and trouble or spending another $800 on a sub, I would think that he would want to smooth them out as much as possible.

Look at the Long Term Power Compression plots on the following links.

http://www.audioholics.com/reviews/speakers/subwoofers/lfm-1-ex-review/lfm-1-ex-measurements

http://www.audioholics.com/reviews/speakers/subwoofers/pb12-nsd/pb12-nsd-measurements

The Outlaw and SVS sub are two very good subs in their price ranges. The specs are also very similar. But notice how the SVS stays nearly ruler flat until it starts to reach its limit in terms out output. The Outlaw curves also look very similar to one another until it reaches its limit and compression starts to set in. The Outlaw sub has a sag in the frequency response from 20Hz to 50Hz with one port open, or a slight sag from 30Hz to 60Hz with a peak at around 25Hz that levels off as the dB's increase. Now if you integrate these two subs in the same room, then the cancellation of the nulls and peaks with be less so than if you were to just use either a pair of Outlaws or a pair of SVSs. This is simply because the frequency responses are different (somewhere between 2 to 3 dB's) for most frequencies at any dB level set.

The other thing to keep in mind is that these long term compression curves for the Outlaw and especially the SVS are very good. Many subs as they start to reach their limits will have frequency responses curves that look very different than when they were at 60dBs. This becomes probably less of an issue with having 4 subs, but may be an issue still with two subs.

I really think some of you guys are reading too many graphs. There's just no way to nail this issue down without taking into account the very critical variable of room interaction.

David, how much of a risk could it be, really? I mean, don't you think adding a second "quality" sub is going to "help" after you've had a chance to experiment with placement and EQ?

Just do it and get on with having fun instead of torturing yourself.

btw, the Behringer Feedback Destroyers - when used as a sub EQ - offer 2 channels of independent parametric EQ adjustment for a pretty reasonable price. If you want to measure and tweak.

Something i have looked into is the antimode 8033 which can equalize your subs automatically and will work with 2 subs. I have a denon amp with audyssey multi eq xt and i have had good luck with it equalizing both subs. I seriously doubt anyone could tell if both subs were not the same brand. My subs are not the same brand as my M80's and they interact just fine.As we all know a crossover point is not a brick wall.

I also vote for that it doesn't matter too much if the subs are different.

Thanks for all of the replies. I prefer axiom and will go that route if bedget permits. Otherwise I will look into other options.

I think your best bet would be the Axiom, I have (and got lucky)two Paradigm subs a few years apart, but are still the PS1000's and sound amazing with the M80's and expect them to sound just as good with the LFR's.

You should try keep the subs at the same level, much easier to "dial in".

I've said it before and I'll say it again, Axiom subs have texture to their sound, most other subs do not. You can mix other subs with Axiom without affecting that wonderful texture to much, at least with my experiences.

Yup, gotta love that textured and warm sound of the Axiom sub

I would think that two different subs of similar capability would help smooth out the weaknesses in each individual sub and when set up properly would give you a pleasing experience. There isn't any real tonal match you need to worry about. My SVS PB12-NSD is the older model but I am very impressed with the quality of the sub. I think you will be quite happy.