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#394401 - 06/20/13 10:20 PM Re: Pioneer SC-1522-k and M80v3 [Re: fredk]
JohnK Offline
shareholder in the making

Registered: 05/11/02
Posts: 10480
Yes, as Nick and Fred point out, any reference to sufficient amplifier output levels has to logically mean clean and transparent, certainly not accompanied by "painful distortion".

Nick, one point to note is that the 6dB per doubling of distance factor only applies under anechoic conditions. In home listening rooms reinforcement from room surfaces is such that a typical result(as reported in research by Dr. Toole and others)is a 3dB loss per doubling. This is the factor which I apply in calculations relating to the sufficiency of amplification at safe listening levels. The typical result with receivers having ratings anywhere in the 100-150 watt area is sufficient output(clean!!!)with speakers of average sensitivity, such as Axioms, for those levels at typical home listening distances.
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#394404 - 06/21/13 09:22 AM Re: Pioneer SC-1522-k and M80v3 [Re: McDave]
CatBrat Offline
axiomite

Registered: 08/05/09
Posts: 6014
Loc: Milky Way Galaxy
I used to play electric guitar at extremely loud levels and listen to loud music as a teen. Had excellent hearing most of my life, then in my 50's, I got a constant ringing in my ears from all the previous damage. It won't show up right away, but eventually it'll catch up with you.

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#394405 - 06/21/13 11:03 AM Re: Pioneer SC-1522-k and M80v3 [Re: CatBrat]
casey01 Offline
aficionado

Registered: 07/03/08
Posts: 811
Loc: Toronto
Originally Posted By: CatBrat
I used to play electric guitar at extremely loud levels and listen to loud music as a teen. Had excellent hearing most of my life, then in my 50's, I got a constant ringing in my ears from all the previous damage. It won't show up right away, but eventually it'll catch up with you.


I know the feeling, even without yours and my musical histories, scientifically it has been proven that as we get older, men just naturally, more than women tend to lose the ability to hear high frequencies so when someone touts a 96 or 192KHZ capabilities of a recording I am not impressed. I recently put on a frequency sweep audio test disc and I can barely hear beyond 15KHZ!

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#394406 - 06/21/13 11:47 AM Re: Pioneer SC-1522-k and M80v3 [Re: McDave]
MarkSJohnson Offline
shareholder in the making

Registered: 09/27/04
Posts: 11187
Loc: Central NH
Casey, you're mixing apples and oranges.

When you see that a recording was made at 192KHz, that doesn't mean that it was made to enable you to hear frequencies that high. The 192KHz refers to the sampling frequency. The upper-end of the treble is likely 20KHz.
_________________________
::::::: No disrespect to Axiom, but my favorite woofer is my yellow lab :::::::

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#394407 - 06/21/13 01:08 PM Re: Pioneer SC-1522-k and M80v3 [Re: McDave]
exlabdriver Offline
connoisseur

Registered: 09/07/11
Posts: 1334
casey:

If you can hear out to 15Khz then you are doing really well.

My listening today is limited to peaks of 85 to 90 Db. I find that over that is just too loud. In my 2 X M2s / 2 X EP400s audio only system, my 35W/CH Tube Amp easily pushes out these levels in a fairly large room.

I took one of those online 'hearing tests' & at 65 years old, I peak out at 12-13 Khz, that I understand is still good for my age.

If you take one of these tests, be sure to use speakers or head phones that are capable of reproducing the higher frequencies or you might be disappointed, ha! Initially I used an el-cheapo Sony portable mini-radio headset & couldn't hear anything over about 8-9 Khz. My big, high end Sony headphones enabled me to easily hear 12 Khz...

TAM

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#394408 - 06/21/13 01:27 PM Re: Pioneer SC-1522-k and M80v3 [Re: McDave]
MarkSJohnson Offline
shareholder in the making

Registered: 09/27/04
Posts: 11187
Loc: Central NH
Remember too that the difference between hearing up to 15K and hearing up to 19K isn't really that big of a difference...less than half an octave. In addition, there's not much up there except the uppermost sizzle of some cymbals.

I'm not trivializing hearing loss.

My dad never wanted to invest in a good system because he had his hearing tested and found he couldn't hear much above 15K. In his mind, he felt like he had such serious hearing loss that he couldn't appreciate a good audio system. So he went decades without a good playback system, despite having enjoyed nice systems up until his 40s.
_________________________
::::::: No disrespect to Axiom, but my favorite woofer is my yellow lab :::::::

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#394410 - 06/21/13 01:53 PM Re: Pioneer SC-1522-k and M80v3 [Re: McDave]
exlabdriver Offline
connoisseur

Registered: 09/07/11
Posts: 1334
Here is an excellent, interactive chart on instrument frequency responses. Hover over each instrument graph bar & it will give additional specific info in small windows to the right:

http://www.independentrecording.net/irn/resources/freqchart/main_display.htm

It seems that the higher end 'Yellow Bars' are all harmonics & according to this site, nothing in the musical instruments listed here exceed 16Khz. Synthesizers probably can go higher, but most of us on this planet couldn't hear it.

So at 12-13 Khz, I don't think that I'm missing a lot.

Having said all that, woe be to any speaker or amp designer that willfully cuts off their high end at around 16Khz even though above it, that capability is largely wasted...

TAM

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