Axiom Home Page Forums General Discussion The Water Cooler Made Some Sawdust today.

So I have been see sawing back and forth for quite some time
about building my new project. I have been reading a thread that's 111 pages alone on the speakers I have been wanting to build. I am building a modified version of the Seas Thor which is a MTM Transmission Line speaker similar to a salk. Since it first design by Dr. Joseph D'Appolito it has had some corrections made to its design as new information has been learned over the years.The latest inception is called the Fat Thor. Here are some pics of the first day,man it was hot outside only worked about 4 hrs.







This is what it will look like inside eventually

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Very interesting project, Richard. Is there some specific reference to the modifications to Dr. D'Appolito's design(less than 111 pages long)that you can cite?

Very cool. I really admire people who do that kind of cabinet work.

How much do the drivers cost? What is the modeled FR? Who did the crossover design? The enclosure?

That is one big cabinet.

To be honest john , I can only tell you the benefits of the changes that were made. It is mostly to improve the bass response. The TS parameters of the original driver had changed over time. The box was made larger and the baffle was inverted and round port was incorporated vs a square mass loaded port. Also when Joseph designed these he was using current thinking of the time and it was later discovered that the box was too small for the drivers chosen. I really don't have any desire to learn TL
speaker design, and not nearly enough math background most likely. The drivers are 2g so I hope it sounds good. I needed a summer project and I finally got off my butt and started. I will buy the drivers once the box's are done.

Honestly at one point a (bogey) expert showed up in the thread and it got really technical and I had to skip over a few posts.

Cool.

I am working on my subwoofer project and it is no where near as involved as your speaker project will be.

I am getting really close to the "finishing" stage, and I am still torn on how I want to lay down the paint. Completely different than if I was making speakers as I would probably veneer them and just paint the front baffle, but with the sub, it will be painted black. While mine will be hidden, I still want a nice finish. I was going to break out the HVLP sprayer, but I am dreading the mess of overspray everywhere and the sprayer cleanup.

Anyway, how do you plan to finish your speakers?

Rich:

It's amazing what you guys with talent, patience & the right tools can do with wood.

I leave it to Ian's CNC machine as the only thing that I know how to use is a credit card, ha!!

TAM

I have been following your project nick. It kinda inspired me to get my own going. Since i dont really need the speakers i can take my time with them. I haven't totally decided on the finish though they will be piano black with possibly of blue ghosting using base coast clear coat and some veneer implemented,still looking around to get some inspiration. I have some automotive hvlp paint guns so i will do like i did when i built my sub box last year. Base coat / clear coat is the easiest way to get a really great shine with little effort. Maybe have a body shop spray it. I used a high build primer so it would be nice and straight along with good ol bondo. Wood fillers are just to soft and slow.

I want to hvlp paint mine, but like I said, it can be messy in a garage. Haven't decided yet.

Oh, and I have already started with the Bondo a little last night. Just filling in things at this point. Debating if I want to put a layer of bondo on the whole thing or not just for a consistant surface. I've read up on some finishing threads elsewhere and one guy's massive testing/experimentation thread about how to prevent seams from showing by routing a grove along every joint and filling with Bondo. Maybe something I will look into as well. I know that I would do it with speakers for sure.

I just don't want to go the way of "truck bedliner" like so many people do. Looks cheap to me, but I understand that different people have differnt tastes/time/experience/tools.

I might need to find a source for some high build primer. Hmmm... Was told to start with a couple of coats of Zinsser BIN primer/sealer for the MDF, but I don't think that it will be the same as the "high build" stuff in the end. Then again, if I do the "groove/Bondo" route, then the high build stuff isn't as important.

That is what makes finishing a cabinet so difficult. Even the pros can't agree on how to do it many times, and it leaves an amatuer like me scratching my head and researching like nuts.

It is also a testament to why real wood speakers and custom finishes are so pricy. Companies like Axiom that take the time to do it right have a lot of man hours in each speaker. That is also why I am not overly excited about doing a project like this in the near future unless I get the finish where I want it.

Fun stuff!

If you put it behind you screen it really wont matter much. I have seen high build in a can. When I spray in the garage I put a house fan in the door way the suck the fumes out. If your garage is attached to the house I would not spray inside . During the summer I wait for a hot day and spray in the afternoon.

When I built my sub I used 45's and then a 3/4 round over bit. Just had a few small bits to fill with bondo, just used my finger to apply it. After that i used the high build.

One mistake I made was not fully painting the inside. That mdf stinks forever. plus its harmfull. Next project is to take mine apart and paint it inside.

Different strokes for different folk. You like to golf , I like doing stuff with my hands. Good distraction, the best results come from doing something you enjoy.

BTW I am still plenty handy with the credit card too.

richard

I betcha that you're better at speaker building than I am at golf, ha!

With golf, since I have to go for a walk everyday for blood sugar control, I figure that following a little white ball for a few hours into places unknown is a good substitute...

TAM

I've sealed the inside of mine with a glue mixture (I know, 90% of the people say that it is OK, 10% say not to get ANY water near the MDF, and yet people have been doing it that way for a LONG time).

I *might* prime it while I still have the last side still off since it will be easy to do it now, but I won't bother painting it.

Well then i play golf , i call it wack fuck. Need i explain.

I got a bit of water on my mdf ,it sprinkled a bit while i was working , made little bubles, stuff swells up something awfull. I will probly just spray clear before i close it up.

Nice job! I love it when a project comes together the way its supposed to.

Made some progress, albeit slowly. I do just a bit each nite. Really hot here and after a long day of pulling wrench's I don't seem to have much ambition. Will see how the long weekend goes.


Here is the first one partially glued and baffle in place.




Here is an idea I came up with. self adhesive sanding disc
glued to my blade. Leave a really nice finish on the edges of the particle board. Couldn't find any 10" discs in town but have some on order.


Someone already thought of it before me , so no money to be made .

::waits eagerly for the part where stuff starts blowing up::

I love the sanding blade idea. I've never seen that, but it is pretty cool.

I like how the speakers are coming together. Still anxious to hear how you plan on finishing them. Let me tell you that Bondo on a large surface is a hassle to do in one "mix". I learned that the hard way and had to scrape off some Bondo that I didn't put enough hardener in as I was trying to cover one whole side of my subwoofer with one "batch" of Bondo before it started drying.

Needless to say, I had to do the sides in 3 "batches" each. Should be super smooth, but I wonder how much I am gaining over the MDF surface alone.

But that is my build, too much details for me to put it in your build thread. Sorry.

this thread wouldn't belong if it didn't get side tracked. LOL
MDF is pretty darn straight. Your really going to extremes, should look great. Damn stuff is tricky to work with. There is a product called dynaglass I used once , operative word is once. It was so hard when it dried I could hardly sand it. The speakers are only 9x20 so I am going to use very little filler ,mostly sand and check with a straight edge.

As for the finish , I think there will be a baffle board made of hardwood where the drivers are mounted and then possible some veneer down the middle of the sides with black paint the a bunch of coats of clear. Still not sure if I will chamfer the edges or round over or just leave them as hard edges.

Probably better to chamfer or round over the edges to eliminate any chance of baffle diffraction.

What works for that, Adrian? Roundie bits?

Good call. I had seen that elsewhere too. That person had to hand sand it because it was already inside the box.

on my last projects i used a 1/4 straight bit with jasper jig. i just wasnt happy with the surface where the speaker sat. The outside of the hole was nice and clean. I think i will splurge for a freude bit ,i dont want any doubts on these speakers.I didnt bother to round over the inside,guess it couldnt hurt.

What was wrong with the cut? I used a cheap-o 1/4" cutter and had great success with it. I bought a nice spiral up-cut bit too, but didn't like the $25 price, so it is still sealed up (thus the reason I tried my cheap bit and it worked will). For someone forward facing like regular speakers, I would probably do the spiral upcut bit as recommended by a lot of others for making circles with something like the Jasper.

Just the base of the cutout was not as smooth and accurate as I would have expected or liked. I will give that spiral bit a try on some scrap.

Picture time

Progress on the inside


Some filler, not enough hardner, lots of sanding (Nick ?)



My tools conspiring against me.



Something I made up to keep edges square



Made a lot of dust today,good thing is its soaking up all the oil the kids spilled with the snow machines.



Will be good to get back to work so I can get some rest. I must learn to pace myself, I think I got heat stroke yesterday.

Deep breath my friend...

Assuming that is regular Bondo, then the color seems good in the pictures. Hard to tell what the camera is doing to the color though. It should be about the amount of color as in the Bondo spreaders:


If it is, then you are good. If it is more grey than puke pink, then not so good. I had a mix of both. I ended up having to scrape (not sand) off the grey stuff and go at that part again. The "pink" stuff always felt a little "sticky" to me, even after cured for 24 hours part of that in the hot sun. Once you get down into the sanding a little, it gets a LOT better.

I used my orbital sander and started with the recommended 80 grit. That goes REALLY fast when using new sandpaper so be careful. Then I jumped to 120 grit with the orbital and that felt REALLY smooth. They say that you can prime after that, but I went to 220 grit and my sanding block. Not sure if that was needed. Then I primed tonight. I used a dense foam roller (I really wanted to spray, but was nervous about using a very potent primer/sealer (Zinsser BIN) through my HVLP sprayer. It will need sanding for sure tomorrow and then another coat (which is actually about 2 coats... one horizontal and then another vertical to even it out). After that dries and gets sanded to about 400 grit, toss on the color. For me, I will spray that for sure. 400 grit sand that first coat, and I'll spray a second coat and see how it looks.

So that is my plan based off of what I read, but use whatever pieces you want to.

Note, do NOT cover the whole thing in Bondo like I did. I've spent so much time sanding. I would have been better off doing the nail holes, edges, seams and had the thing painted and assembled by now.

I figured that I wanted to go almost all out on this as a learning opportunity. I learned that I don't want to do that part again.

Ha Ha , the less sanding the better. Many thin coats are definetly preferable. The darn weather keeps on changing here. it cooled off and it rained so a little more hardener would have been helpful. It was borderline useable. I made some decisions tonite on the finish, I am going with some sort of burl on the top and sides, the front ,bottom and back will be painted black since burl veneer is around 400 bux plus 60 to ship . I am going to fully assemble and spray in and out with primer sealer and then see how they sound before I fully finish them. Had my camper sold today which would have paid for the drivers. Was 2/3 loaded when we realized it would not fit in a 08 dodge, the box was too narrow. Fits fine in my 86, I would have never guessed the box on my old truck would have been bigger. We measured my kids 92 Chev 1/2 ton and it was too narrow as well. So will wait a bit before I order the parts, the camper will sell soon enough.

Started out making sawdust today ,then got bothered by the state of my rear bumper . Thought I would share some pics.

Here my kid backed into my car with his truck and the receiver punched a hole.




This was a hit and run at Canadian Tire.



Spoiler had the paint coming off, I cut it with an exactor knife opening a package DOH



And the final product. I still have to redo the new tail light.




Still have to deal with the trunk lid, that was another hit and run at super store.Then its on to the rust.

Who did the paint work? I've had great luck with the repair work on stuff like that, but the vehicles were a white minivan bumper and the black car's rear quarter panel. I actually got great results with rattle-cans, but that was about 6 and 15 years ago.

Sounds "ghetto" but it actually worked. Not sure that it would be as good with a metalic color like silver though.

I did all the work myself. It was way more than I had anticipated so it turned out about 95%. Not happy with the color match but with a 17 yr old car color matching is just short of impossible. Really expensive too, couple hundred in supplies. God damn bugs are the worst part. Will have to get them out in a day or so when the clear hardens up.

Those upside down pictures look so surreal.

Hey cat , not sure what your smokin but count me in.

Good job Richard, but you should stop those hit and runs.

So I made some progress yesterday and today. One cabinet is done and the second is about half way complete. One would think the second one would be quicker but that has not been the case. I made more mistakes than I care to admit LOL. No one will know but me though.


I am still working out a idea for the stands, thinking something along lines of a pipe inside another pipe on a 4 legged stand, like the base of a office chair .

As for the outer finish, I am going to paint with Black Sapphire paint then clear coat. I am thinking of maybe using some different logo's from 80's bands on the sides and fronts in various colors, what do u think? I am not very artsy so I am limited.I think I will get a touch up gun for small stuff.


First cabinet rough finished, now for the tedious part.



Laying out speaker cutouts


Oh yeah something funny I forgot to share, I got the first cabinet all built and started sanding and filling etc. Well I lost track of where the top and the front are LOL . Good thing I took some pics along the way.

My "vote", not that it matters, would be just to paint and clear coat them... no logos. If it goes wrong, it will look really bad. If it goes well, it will just come across as tacky in my opinion. Again, they are yours, so you can do what you want.

yeah I hear ya, just fielding ideas. Speakers have been around a long time and pretty much every design has been tried . Im not the creative type, so I am grabbing at straws

I am thinking of using this wood veneer on the tops and sides with a bit right around the drivers.

Nice veneer. What is it?

That looks Moe Curly than Larry's hair.

That is bubinga (kevazinga) not a bad price compared to some burls. Cherry Crotch looks good too but its way expensive.

For some reason, zebrawood has been catching my eye lately... would make for a pretty M3, I think

Had a 3 day weekend, gotta love a boss who hates work as much as I do . I had some MDF left over so I decided to build a second sub and put 2 big ones in my living room and put the smaller ones in the bedroom. I wanted to rebuild my current sub so I built another just like it and will put the parts in the new one. Then I will rebuild the original , which I have new parts on the way for.

My Original sub,the drivers are not flush mounted, I am going to add mdf to the inside to double the thickness and flush mount the drivers.





New sub I built today. Tomorrow I will finish it and paint it.Pics to follow

So im not sure if anyone is interested but I have some down time waiting for primer to dry so here goes. Yesterday I got a late start. Cutting the 90s round over and filling and sanding took a lot longer than I remember. To top it off it wont stop raining here, more rain in the past 2 days than we usually get all summer. With the unrelenting rain , outdoor painting was out so I decided to make a spray booth with plastic and use a couple heaters to speed things along. Spraying all six sides at once is nasty, so I will spray the color coat on the bottom then stand the box on my bench for the rest. I bought the components from Creative Sound Solutions in Vancouver BC. It is tuned to 27hz using weights in the centers of the 2 passive radiators.

In the background of the woofer pics is the first plasma I bought 7 yrs ago for $1800 . On Friday my kid comes out to the shop and says it went pop and the picture disappeared. I have been waiting for it to happen, these LG sets were not very reliable. It has about 8000 hrs on it. Thanks to the internet , I found the culprit and parts are being procured.

If I do anymore of this sort of stuff I will definetly be investing in some cordless tools. With a shop vac, table saw,drill,sander, skill saw 2 routers , jig saw,fan ,bench grinder and an unruly air line things got pretty F'd up at times. I will also retract my recommendation of the skill router. Do not buy a router with a removable base , they just don't sit straight. I will be getting a fixed base router for more intricate work. Live and learn .

Sanding Sanding Sanding



First Coat of Primer



The Booth


XBL2 Subductive Woofer


2 Passive Radiators

ready for clear coat



clear applied done deal

OOoooohhh. Shiny!!

What he said. Very pretty.

Anyone who cries about the price of a sub or speaker for that matter has never built one themselves. The wood, glue, paint materials, labour, electricity, electronics , shop equipment, it would be cheaper to buy one . Good thing this is something I like to do , though its time to find another distraction for a while.
Richard

Wow that is really looking good!!!

Looks Beautiful, Sock!

I'm wondering how CSS's SDX-15 subwoofer is coming along...haven't heard much about it for ages.

I wish that you could have painted and clear-coated my sub I just made. That looks outstanding.

That looks fantastic!

Great job on that, Richard!! Fantastic looking finish.

Im not sure, I honestly didn't know they were working on a 15. I currently have a pair of 12's in my stratus and they don't sound as good as a single 10 did in my probe. I've always preferred small subs, I like my bass tight and I find bigger drivers sound flabby. I have a small room so I think it suits smaller drivers. I have 2 of these subs which should shake the neighbors lol.

Nick if I lived closer by I would gladly spray your sub box for you.

Thanks everyone for your kind words.

Cue Swanky music and the ring of the doorbell from the pizza guy.

That's FUNNY... To me

Mark, this could really be in the "What funny thing are you appreciating..." thread

They had a 15" out a couple of years back, but I understood they were coming out with an improved version of the same driver...but it's been a long time since I've heard anything on the new driver.

All done, one more to paint ,weather permitting.
Sorry for the crappy pics, indoor shots are hard for me since I only know how to use auto , and the thing is stupid heavy so I refuse to take it outside.

That really is a terrific job! If Axiom ever want to open a sub shop up your way they should know who to call!

Actually I think it looks better than their work...

Thanks, for the compliment. Its too much work to do on a regular basis. Plus if you get up close you can see my mistakes. In fairness to axiom, time is money .

Here is what happens when you don't have a spray booth. When bugs attack. He came when I was in my shop for just a few seconds.



All done, just have to wet sand and polish in a few days.



BTW this is the twin to my first sub. Drivers should be here about Wednesday.

In my best Canadian lingo... Beauty Eh!

That is a lovely piece of work.

Here is sub box #2 all shiny and ready for its parts and pieces . I just have to paint the speaker cutouts black .




And the back where the bug was swimming

Now I can stop buggin u guys im all done. (For Now)

Beautiful work indeed.

Now we need a review - completely unbiased of course, ha!

TAM

That doesn't look like the Whitehorse i remember.

Mmmm, prime rib roast at the Edgewater Hotel....succulent.

It truly isn't any Whitehorse most visitors would remember. Its grown up and got all big city on us. The edgewater is still cookin though and the prime rib is still the best around.

I stayed in Whitehorse a couple weeks ago when I was driving a truck through Canada. It was raining. Hell, I drove through rain storms from Grand Prairie to Alaska...

You sure do excellent work. I can't paint to save my life.

We have a saying here, and it hold pretty true. If you don't like the weather wait 5 mins , it changes constantly. Rained so hard the other night I could barely see the road out in front of my house,not long after the sun was out.

Built a 10x10 deck down by our bank yesterday to attach a set of stairs to get to the shore below.

Thank you insanely rich guys down the shore for building a new stairs instead of dragging the old one back and reattaching it after it let go over the winter. We will give your old stairs a nice home instead of covered in seaweed where you left it.

Reduce, reuse, recycle! Good one, Murph!

Somethings wrong with all the pictures! They are all right side up now.

I have no idea why this happens. I know when I take pics with my ipod they get upside down or sideways on my computer. I looked into the reason why but I forget .
Getting old is good, I don't have to remember anything and I don't care when I forget .

built some stairs for the patio deck today

got the Green Egg fired up, in its new custom table top rolling table

planning a brisket this weekend

i'll TRY to remember to post some pics this time

I'm building a "cat tower" or "condo" or whatever you want to call it...

It involves wood anyway.

No, it is not made out of cats.

Cats with w.....
No, I'm not going to go there.

Empty product cardboard boxes from Costco make excellent cat condos & hiding places plus they double as scratching posts.

When the boxes finally get nicely shredded, out the go out to the recycler & I go & get some more - all for free of course.

BTW, last week we just added another cat to our herd. He was a rescue cat that was becoming very depressed in the PALs cage at the local Woofy's so we took him home a day before he was due to be fostered out.

That now makes 3 beautiful white cats with one tuxedo for diversity, ha!

TAM

Richard, how do you like those SDX12 subs you built?

They are great, a huge upgrade over the pair of 8 inch Yamaha subs I have. I put one in the right front corner and one in the left rear and use audyssey on both at the same time and it works quite well. I have considered getting a antimode but am really happy with the way it is right now. I find the bass to be taught and refined , very musical. That's not to say it they cant bring the house down . Honestly 1 of them would have been more than enough given the size of the room. The woofers have XBL2 tech ,and are supposed to be the greatest thing though I don't have proof of that . I think they are the best compromise between ported and sealed and the passive radiators are adjustable.

Richard

A pretty basic, OK very basic, pine shelf I just finished for my Mom-in-law as she couldn't find anything with high enough shelves to fit her photo albums. Sharon did the finish since my asthma reacts to the chemicals pretty badly. She did a pretty good job for her first project. It's hard not to have pine go all blotchy.

I wasn't happy using the one-side-good plywood for the backing but she insisted on paying for materials and looking at receipts so I had to keep the budget as low as possible. She has more boxes of albums to go in there, so soon it won't be seen anyways.

Nice job. You can use a wood conditioner before you stain, it really helps even the finish/stain out esp on softwoods like pine.

Looks great!

You go, Andrew! Looks super!
Did you make the drawers? Do they have mechanical sliders?
Are those just drawer faces crazy-glued to a face frame?

You have asthma? I am sorry to hear that. I know lots of sufferers. It's sooo Irish around Boston to have asthma.

Seriously, I don't know any Jews, Poles, Italians or wasps with it. Bill has it-------Bill MURPHY! My friend David has it----David MURPHY! and I'm pretty sure at least ONE of the Mike Murphys does, too! I know Simon Donovan does.

Wow, I never thought of them all together like that. So it must be either a particularly Irish gene being passed on, or simply generations of childhood alcohol consumption, right?

Thanks guys!

She did use a condition and yes, it certainly does help. I've ruined (in my mind) pine projects before by thinking I could get away with not using it.

Yes, they are real drawers. No steel runners though. It's old-school. They sit on waxed wooden tracks. There is a wooden knob inside that you turn down from the top to keep them from sliding out all the way. If you do need them to come all the way out (like to add more wax) then you reach in and turn the knob out of the way.

The whole thing was an 'old-school' project. No nails or screws used. Even the plywood backing sits in it's own routed groove.

No worries about the Asthma, it's negligible in most conditions. you could kill me with a bottle of hairspray and extremely cold air can be a challenge until I adjust but other than that, it's almost negligible.