Axiom Home Page Forums General Discussion The Water Cooler Once again..7-8 passenger vehicle recommendations?

We're finally getting serious about buying a car that will fit our family more comfortably. We've got 3 young kids, all still in carseats, so we're looking for something with 7 or 8 seats. I was all set on an Odyssey, but my wife wants more options, specifically SUVs.

Any recommendations? We're looking for late models, under 35K or so, new or used.

Odyssey is the best choice. The ease of ingress for you and the kids just can't be replicated by an SUV.

Really.

We still really like our 2007 Acura MDX. If that's not enough persuasion, Ray recently got the 2014 version and seems to be over the moon with delight. I drove MANY SUV's when our minivan was dying, and liked the Acura the best, but I was looking for amenities, fun to drive and flexibility. Our 2 kids are 16 and 19.

It is so much worse than a van in parking lots it's not even funny. It's also a labor for 5 people. It doesn't have nearly as much interior space, either.

You guys need a van. You will be happier.

Ken, I know most people don't want to be that cliché, soccer mom with mini van but when our 3 boys were young having a van was a godsend. The van allows you to separate the kids from one another. In all honesty if I had to do it now I would get a Dodge Caravan . Maybe when the kids are older you could go with a Sport Utility when they are able to get in and out on their own and buckle their own seatbelt. I say take the whole crew and go testdrive , the salesman will love ya.

Minivan is the way to go. It may not be "sexy" or anything, but otherwise it trumps most SUVs in features for when you have a family to haul around.

Case in point. We (still) have a Dodge Grand Caravan despite our youngest being 14 and our oldest half way through her sophomore year of college. My wife and I would love to get rid of it, but right as we start talking like that, some need comes up to use the space of it. Show me an SUV under $30,000 that can haul several 2-sheet "sets" of 4foot x 8foot sheets of drywall? I can in my minivan and still close the back. When we go out of town for things like Christmas, we bring 3 of our pets with us. So with just the back bench seat down, we crammed in all of our luggage (we stayed for a week and the 3 ladies in my family don't pack light), Christmas presents, pet food, a couple of pet kennels (one cat and one dog), plus my youngest brought her chameleon and its cage doesn't collapse down, so it is 20" x 20" x 36" tall. That is almost floor to ceiling and a lot of space.

So we sure can fill it. Then there is the 90% of the time when it is just 2 or 3 of us and it is now too big, but for those few times that we need the space, it is great to have.

Now, flash back to when our kids were younger. A sliding door is a lot easier to get kids in and out of, especially when parked on a street where a regular door, like on an SUV, would stick out into traffic while the youngsters take their time making their way out. The sliding doors also open up more fully, not just front to back, but a little taller too.

Power sliding doors are awesome too. If or when you have kids old enough to at least climb in and out, then you can pop open the doors from the driver's seat or keyless remote, and they pile in (or out) and you push another button and the doors close.

OK, now flash forward again to our family vacation last summer. We were in one of our favorite states to visit, Florida...

We rented a "Standard SUV" because it should be bigger than a full size car. It was listed as bigger than a crossover, and smaller than a Chevy Suburban or monster SUV, and again, I was with my family of ladies and they pack a lot of stuff. We were nervous as we got there and were hearing someone else get a "standard SUV" and it was a Ford Edge. What? That has less cargo space than a full size car, and seats the same number of people. We thought we were screwed.

Well, with my rental status, they put us into a 7 passenger, top end Ford Explorer. It had every bell and whistle and was damn sexy looking compared to a regular car or minivan. We popped the back lift gate, and were like.. "what?" There is almost NO storage compared to our "same sized" minivan at home. So at least the rear seats folded down, because had they not, we would have never gotten our suitcases in.

Now, you can get into a base model Explorer for about $30,000, but it is fairly "base model" in feel too. We ended up (very long story involving a middle of the night flat tire and a jerk rental car guy that I won't get into) having to give up our top end Explorer and got put into a base model. Not only were all of the fun bells and whistles gone, but the base model got a LOT worse gas mileage. We were getting almost 30MPG on the highway with the top end one (not sure if it is one of the models that shuts down cylinders when on the highway, or what) and about 18MPG on the highway with the other. So yes, you can get into a $30,000 version, but you won't have the space, features, easy access, etc as with most minivans.

Now, if she MUST have an SUV, you could look into the Ford Flex (no, I am not a Ford nut, just basing things off of rental cars I've had). I think that they are kind of ugly, but wow, do they feel big on the inside, and getting in and out of the front is at about the height of a car (you don't have to "climb" in or out due to height. In actuality, the cargo space if you have 3 or more people in it is a little less than the Explorer, but it feels more open and isn't as high up.

Now, for comparison reasons, again just on cargo space, you get the same amount of "trunk" space in a Ford Taurus as you do the Flex behind the back seat, and .9cuft less than the Ford Explorer, but you get better gas mileage, etc. I only picked the Taurus because I was already on Ford's site looking up cargo capacities. Now, just for comparisons. At 21CuFt total cargo space behind the 3rd row of seats in a larger SUV like the Ford Explorer, you get 33CuFt of cargo behind the rear seats in say, a Dodge Grand Caravan (we have owned two of these in the last 10 years and that is what my experience is with).

Now, keep in mind that you can get an upper end Grand Caravan for several add-on options for less money than the starting price of the base model Ford Explorer.

Good luck.

We've had 2 Suburbans (1996 and now a 2008) and love them. My wife's sister used to have a Caravan but switched to a Suburban and says she'll never go back. Besides, how many vehicles that can hold 8 or 9 people be quickly converted to transporting full sheets of plywood or drywall - not that it's an every day occurrence but we've done it several times.
ymmv

+1 on the Flex. My wife wouldn't even put her head inside a minivan to look in it, but wanted room for 7. She loves our Flex and I'm pretty impressed with it so far too. We got a 2013 SEL AWD with less than 13000km nicely equipment for under $30000 CAN. Lots of room, nice ride, plenty of features for the price.

I worked at a Chrysler Jeep dealership for many years and I am a huge fan of minivans. I've seen people cry when trading in the first generation caravans/voyagers. They had never had anything like it and the vehicles felt like part of the family.

It boils down to a simple choice. Do you want to ride around in something that drives more like a truck or a car?

I always suggest the minivan. The driving experience, the fuel economy, the safety, the visibility, the functionality, the comfort.

Having a vehicle with sliding doors on both sides instead of doors that open is a top feature when you have children.

Many of my friends have children that are getting older and they are migrating away from vans just for the sake of something new. For example, the Odyssey drivers are switching to Pilots.

Yeah, we hadn't really looked at the Flex. Now that we've configured one, it looks pretty appealing, although of course the prices the dealers list are SIGNIFICANTLY higher than the configured price on the Ford site.

Gonna have to check one out.

Ken, you probably should re-set on the Odyssey. In the November issue of Consumer Reports the 2014 was tested and scored by a wide margin over the other minivans.

The report began "Sorry, image-conscious parents[Jen?]. Despite the popularity of SUVs, none of them can match a minivan for overall versatility and practical family transportation. And the Odyssey is the best at that."

I personally don't understand the wholesale distaste some people have for minivan aesthetics. I'd get a minivan again, and I don't even have a family. They still look better than PT Cruisers.

When I had a mini van , I owned 2 different Aerostars one was a 4.0L and the other a 3.0L . I absolutely loath front wheel drive anything. Since no one makes a rear drive mini van anymore , AWD is the way to go imho. Though they ruin that too with all this nanny add on traction control etc. Bah driving has had the fun taken out of it because so few people really know how to handle a car. Jay leno asked his niece why she texted while driving and she said because driving is boring. These people should not get their license .

I bought a Chevy Uplander the last year they offered them(2009), got a great deal and now I get a letter or call from the dealership every two to three months asking with such low mileage on ours(48,000 Km), because of the demand for low mileage minivans come in, get top dollar and trade it in on something newer. I know much of this is just salesmanship and promotion, but, even if it is partially true,one wonders why GM stopped making them in the first place?

I asked my sales rep why and even with over 25 years in the business, he just shrugs his shoulders. For the most part SUVs are highly overrated, over priced and certainly don't have the space of a minivan. No wonder these clowns had to go to the taxpayer for a bailout.

OK....I have come out the other side. Number 1 is married and Number 2 I just saw off to Richmond for a fairly prestigious Internship. Back in the day, my wife and I decided we did not want to concede to the minivan craze and.....I am glad that we did not. I still have my '98 Expedition and have never regretted it. I did, however, go to the opposite end of the pendulum and purchase an Escape this past summer. 8 cylinders down to 4 is much better on the wallet. Don't know if you guys can get "John Boy & Billy" on radio but this thread certainly sounds like an episode of "Married Man".....Just Sayin'

Is this what you are referring to.I will have to give that a listen. Unfortunately its only on till 10pm eastern Mon to Saturday. Get it here

Found the previous episodes.

She's got a valid point--she's going to be driving it a lot more than me, and I'd pretty much decided on something before we even test drove or looked at much.

In any case, we'll be looking at a Flex pretty closely; what with all the discounts getting thrown at it these days, it's pretty appealing. Not to mention the fact it's smaller than a minivan with better visibility, as far as I can tell.

I know that the Caravan feels too big for both of us; we had a Town and Country rental that just felt enormous, and those are pretty much the same car with different interior and grill. And I'm afraid a Suburban or Expedition is pretty much out of the question!

Adding the Nissan Quest to the list. It's waaaaaaay underappreciated and hence waaaaaaaay under MSRP.

That is the show that I am talking about. I have not listened in several years but when I was, my favorites were the Married Man episodes and "The Reverend Billy Ray Collins".

I couldn't find the married man episode except on iTunes .

I don't think that the visibility of the Flex is better than a minivan; it seems lower to me, which mattered for me. YMMV

Well, we test drove the Flex and the Quest today. We liked both better than the (slightly older) Siennas and Odysseys we drove, and much better than the Highlander and the Pilot.

We're leaning heavily towards the Flex; it feels nice to drive, the interior is nice, and it's got a good base package (including heated, powered seats in cloth upholstery--shocker!)

Only trouble now will be finding one with the right options and the right color on the lot--since these things are not exactly popular, half of the bargaining power we've got is taking one of them off the dealer's hands. Sadly, there seem to be even fewer blue ones out there, and that's the color we both really like.

So I guess "ugly" is not a consideration?

It is considered a positive feature. Let's call it... identifiable. We own a silver Civic. It's kinda hard to find in a parking lot.

Ford's EcoBoost is a nice system, if that's an option of the Flex models you're looking at. I've rented several Fusions with that option - mileage and passing power when you need them.

Reliability ain't great on the EcoBoost, and it's a pretty significant premium, so unfortunately we're not.

Ford has beautiful paint colors.

And all of the Flexes I saw were white.

I thought it was a really good vehicle, and we almost bought it; I was just seduced by the MDX driving experience. Lured, if you will.

Better than Nissan's paint colors, let me tell you. With the Quest, you can get it in white, black, grey, grey, grey, or grey.

I ended up with a Flex rental a while back. Took me some time to suck up my pride and actually get in it, but I have to admit that I was pretty impressed with it. The one I rented was AWD, and there was plenty of snow/ice/slush on the road. It performed admirably on all season tires. I bet with some Blizzaks, it would be extremely good. If I were in your shoes Ken, I'd probably look at one. I'd end up with a suburban, but we have Moose to worry about while travelling about, and I prefer a larger vehicle after hitting one many years ago and totalling a 3/4 ton Suburban, but no one sustained any injuries (so small rigs are not good for winter travel). Another good thing about the Flex, is that it's so low to the ground, you could slap some luggage racks on the roof, and actually be able to put crap up on them without a ladder in a parking lot (like long boards and things).

We're pretty much at the Flex on the emotional level, but it is more expensive than a Quest, and we didn't actually try out any with cloth seats, which is probably what we'll end up with. We'll see what we end up with; it'll probably be a few weeks or so. Famous last words...

Sorry - late to the party, so some quick input.

From an SUV perspective, I LOVE my 2014 MDX. No one mentioned the Nissan Pathfinder - 7 passenger and worth a look. You already looked at the Flex.

Van - the Odyssey is generally regarded as the best. My daughter just got a 2014 and loves it. Great gas mileage for a van. Quest is also a good choice.

Here is the deal on SUVs. They handle/ride more like a car, especially my MDX ( and surprisingly, the Odyssey is a great surprise for car-like handling). We got it for the additional size and that brings 7 seat capability (sort of). The third row in an SUV is NOT without it's challenges for ingress/egress as Tom mentioned. Although there is entertainment value in watching my wife try it out, I believe you have 3 kids and I don't know what that means relative to car seats. 3rd row car seats would pretty much eliminate traveling for us.

My daughter loves her Odyssey. Vans are simply easier to deal with because of the large sliding doors. They just work MUCH better with a bunch of kids. It's what we would have with kids involved. The Odyssey, at the lower end of the "pimp your ride" scale has some pretty neat stuff included and it is affordable for what you get, 28 highway mpg and the reliability. If I had a nudge vote for you, it would be the Odyssey.

Also, you mentioned cloth seats. Reconsider leather. Worth the $$ for the comfort and spills can be easily wiped up.

A side comment. I have NEVER understood why people are willing to pay $3000-$5000 more (per vehicle) to get a package that includes built-in navigation and a bunch of esoteric stuff you don't need. Top 'o the line Garmins are big enough, transferable to any of your vehicles AND easy to update and come in at ~ $350. And at that price, you get free map updates, traffic capability and voice control. Just a pet peeve.

So there is my late and unsolicited input. I Hope it helps.

Oh, no interest in the built in nav or any of that crap. Unfortunately, in this segment, everything's been "simplified." So the leather package on both of the ones we're considering includes various doodads we don't need.

We looked into a Pathfinder, but the interior looked pretty small after the Flex, Quest, Odyssey, et al.

Pretty sure we're going for the Flex, but it's a process that we're still sort of inching towards. The old Volvo hasn't fallen apart yet...

With three kids, I can't imagine not having a van. We are on our second Odyssey, and both have been spectacular. The first one racked up over 300,000k - virtually trouble-free. To expand on what Ray said about upgrades, we always made the conscious decision to buy the base model. As reliable as the Honda's are, our kids are REALLY hard on things. I bought into the whole "fewer things to go wrong" mentality, and it seems to have paid off. YMMV.

Ken, I'm on my 4th Honda Odyssey since 2004. Boy, I guess they break down and have to get thrown away a lot. (I lease 'em.)

Seriously, any little thing that sorta bugged me:

2004 "Why did they put THAT there?"
2006 "Oh, look! They moved it here! Great!
2006 "I wish that they would..."
2009 "Hey, this year they included a...!"
2009 "You know what'd be great?"
2011 "Awesome, you did it! But I didn't say "hearse" anywhere in my letters to you, did I? DID I?

I'm over that part now. I HAVE to have a van. I tried a van AND a car for a while and couldn't afford both, soo..

I wouldn't have another candidate. It's more comfortable to sit in than any car, and it allows the torque and quickness I demand in order to drive like an asshole! Hey, it's Boston! No one else would ever notice!" Especially the Boston police!

Whatever your final choice, Ken, best of luck, except if you buy any Chrysler product.

I've ridden in Bob's van. Everything he says is true.

Seriously, Ken, you ignore the Odyssey recommendations at your peril.

Including the part about the crazy driving?

BTW, I've stayed silent on this, but I have an Odyssey too.

My sister SWORE she would never drive a minivan when she had kids. She's now on her third and won't drive anything else.

I was trying to be diplomatic.

With Bob? Bob K? Diplomatic?

::runs away giggling::

Ken once said himself that I should be the ambassador to China.
I think I had just written something on how many dates we'll buy from the middle east after the oil runs out and how that relates to the future market for Saudi virgin hair.

Which is what is being used as stuffing for the Odyssey seats.

It seems that the SUV option is not popular here - but I am going to give one more shout out. My family vehicle from "back in the day" is a '98 Ford Expedition. I still have it for hauling and.....those few snow days we have here. Big Blue rode again this past weekend (295k+ miles)as we pulled a uhaul filled with funiture from Oak Ridge, NC to Richmond Va. 55 mph speed limit - HA! I was going 55 until a pickup hauling a much larger trailer blew by me on I-40. My brother-in-law's advice had been to accelerate until the trailer began to fishtail and then back off a bit. I didn't go to that extreme but I did ease it up to 65 mph shortening the time of the trip somewhat. And.....I never did have to justify the purchase.....

Welp, miracle of miracles, we did actually buy a car:



It's a 2010 Ford Flex Limited in Dark Ink Blue Metallic. With the Ecoboost twin turbo V6.

We really like it. Very comfortable, good performance and handling, pretty bad gas mileage. Holds 7 pretty well, and the carseats are easy to put in and out.

Wow! Awesome!

That's a great-looking rig. Ford has the best colors, IMO.

15 mpg?
Love the color.

Your anaconda is happy with the angle of that shot.

I've got the Focus ST which is the ecoboost system on a few steroids. Mileage is fine if I keep my right foot out of it, but on boost it runs very rich as evidenced by the black soot around the tail pipe, and mileage drops to low double digit range.

But, the seat of the pants feel is worth the lower mileage, imo.

Well, this Ecoboost is the one intended to replace a V8, so the mileage is better than that would have, but it's still a 350HP engine with 350lb/ft of torque. So we get about 11/20. There is no V8 offered in the Flex.

Still, this car has ALL the bells and whistles, including a semi-automatic parallel parking system (that we've never used in real life, because EEK) and mood lighting. Crazy.

A van with mood lighting? That's just too easy. I'm gunna let you off the hook, but just this one time.

Doesn't apply, Murph. Ken already has kids.

But unlike many of us, he has yet to cut his long hair. So I prefer to be an optimist and believe he is still living the dream.

Sorry, dude, cut my hair a year ago.

NOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO!

::Raises fist to sky::

Our race has fallen. Resistance WAS futile.

No DMV will allow you to register THAT vehicle if you have long hair. It would just freak out too many other drivers.

I knew as I changed pages someone had a NOOOOO! waiting.

But were you expecting the fisting?

Jeeez, I just have to stop posting today......

Up here it's still OK as long as you're wearing a Grateful Dead t-shirt.

I remember, as a teenager, I had long hair, and when I walked down the side of a rode shirtless, all the guys would turn around and gawk as they drove by, only to see the look on their faces as they realized I wasn't a woman.

I reaaaaaally wish I'd tried that now.

That's a great choice Ken!

Good choice! Great color. In hindsight I wish I had gone with the ecoboost but the base 3.5L Ti-VCT V6 has enough power for day to day. Yours must have some serious snap.

350HP?!?! Holy crap! I'm envious, but I couldn't afford to keep tires on the thing......

I did that, too! Only I was hoping they'd back up!

It weighs like 4500 lbs, so it turns out it has around the same power/weight ratio as our old Volvo 850 Turbo wagon. A much less pronounced turbo note than that one, though.

I guess Chevy's version for saving fuel is their multi-displacement system (Dodge/Chrysler has a similar system) whereby it shuts down 4 cylinders under light load conditions - typically <55 mph on flat roads just cruising. With that our suburban get a similar 11/20 as well.

My focus ST has 250 HP - too fun to resist. I just wish the boost gauge showed negative pressure in addition to positive.

I'm really liking the whole Ford Ecoboost platform - all the vehicles I've rented with it performed really well and got pretty good gas mileage if you took it easy.
ymmv - really

I'd prefer a combination of the two systems, really. But hey, it's a really nice car and it has the oomph when it needs it.

Congrats, Ken! That's a nice looking ride!!

He's going to chauffeur us all around at the Axiom get-together.

Shotgun!


Wait, it's not going to work unless Ken wears a little chauffeur hat

Nice!!

Does it have AWD? The limited models are pretty sweet. How many miles on it?

It's AWD. It's got a bit under 40K.

How about a paper maché chauffeur hat?

After spending 3 weeks recently sitting in the backseat of our 2011 Venza, my wife decided that we needed more room on our road trips to the desert SW.

So I took the Venza in for an oil change today & came away with this:

http://wwwb.autotrader.ca/a/Toyota/Highl...mp;orup=1_15_63

This 2014 Highlander has a bit of a weird history. It was sold to a couple who added a whole bunch of extra doodads including roof rack & towing package. The GPS needed an update that couldn't be completed in time for their departure on a road trip so they turned this one back & bought another car.

Furthermore, there was a 'Pending Sale' on this vehicle for the last couple of days but it fell through so we grabbed it late this afternoon.

Nice that Toyota has such high resale value as we got a more than generous trade in.

BTW - I won't ever be sitting in the back row, ha!

TAM

PS - the link above won't last long

Very nice rig tam, can not go wrong with a Toyota , always good resale etc. But damn that's a lot of money for a car, at least in my world it is.

It's a lot of money for us as well. If we hadn't got a really good trade in value on our Venza, it would not have happened. Basically we got into a $48000 rig for half that price. We pick it up tomorrow morning.

The one thing that I'm kinda dreading is setting up all of the electronic gizmos & learning a new GPS unit. These cars are becoming almost as sophisticated aircraft. The US 'Platinum' model that is not available up here at the moment has radar sensing cruise control to automatically maintain distance from the vehicles ahead.

Heading off into the Interior of BC on Wed to break it in. Hope that the weather through the mountains stays decent because it becomes very iffy this time of year...

TAM

Picked up this morning. More of a big 'Cadillac' type ride as contrasted to the Venza.

So much on board electronic stuff that it is mind boggling - even for someone who spent many years in a cockpit.

First accomplishment - after wasting a whole afternoon searching, I found the garage door opener transmitter that was MIA for 4 years after last being used for the Venza. Needed batteries of course but programming the car to open the garage went without drama, unlike many others who have great difficulty with this supposedly easy task...

TAM