Axiom Home Page Forums General Discussion Advice from Axiom Owners Full Metal Bracket with M22/VP150?

Looking at streamlining the new theater room. E.G. getting everything up off the floor (no speaker stands).

Thinking about using the Full Metal Bracket for my M22 L/R and VP150 center. The bracket is rated for way more weight than the VP150 weighs. What concerns me is the single mounting screw. The VP150 is long and due to the single screw, it could "see-saw" left and right. Not good.

Most probably I will go with a wall-mounted shelf under the screen for the VP150.

I welcome your ideas, please.

I wouldn't.
You won't have the freedom to place them where the sound best in the room, I doubt it's inches from the wall.
If you do please post pictures, I'd like to see it. I've always been a fan of minimalist installations.

Well, the L/C/R speakers typically flank/go directly under the screen. Not sure what you mean by "placing them where they sound best in the room."

I have stands that I made long ago...I believe they are 18 inches high. They are sand-filled and work great...but they are still stands sitting on the floor.

I could use the stands first, to perform a "listening test" to see how far away from the sides of the screen they should be and then mount them to the wall. That's one idea, no?

The FMB does tilt L/R and Up/Down...that would help too. Thoughts?

Maybe someone else could provide an opinion. I don't have direct experience with the M22.

Brwsaw is referring to the affect speaker placement has on the overall performance of the system soundwise.

If you are strictly HT centric, and run auto eq etc, what you are planning to do is probably more than fine. Colorations from near wall placement will be handled in the AVR.

Lately we have been on the topic of speaker placement here. There are many factors that contribute to the end result in a listening experience. Speaker placement and flexibility is key to getting every last ounce of performance from a given system. Room setup/acoustics are another.

If tweaking and chasing perfection are of interest to you, a fixed installation is a bad idea. Otherwise, set it and enjoy it.

Sorry to jump in, but I used a FMB to mount my VP150 when I first set it up. Worked fine until I moved my theater. Seems pretty solid actually. The biggest issue what that I was mounting everything to fit under a soffit that was there for duct work, so I had to cram everything as close to the ceiling as possible and it made messing with it a bit tricky just to get it mounted the first time.
I put it above my screen back then:


After that, when I moved into a different room, I just made a little shelf below the screen. I liked the way it sounded a little better too. Picture is dark, but you can see it under the screen (it is on a shelf, trust me).


And now I have a VP180 on a custom built (yeah, that means DIY) stand that is behind by current screen so that it is in line with the tweeters of my front mains and directly behind the main part of the screen where it should be. Picture below was before I took down the screen to install them.



But yes, the FMB can successfully (and without concern) hold a VP150.

Thank you, Serenity_Now and nickbuol.It's great to see actual pictures of a VP150 mounted on the wall/FMB.

NICKBUOL: Did the VP150 have any left-right/seesaw motion from just the one mounting screw? If the bracket had protruding "nibs" on the left/right of the screw that fit into corresponding recesses on the speaker, I wouldn't be worried...but it does not. And your stands are great; I'm all about DIY for most things...except things like metal mounting brackets, obviously.

And I'm glad you brought up boundary/placement, Serenity_Now, because that was going to be my next thread.

Axiom sells port plugs now and my M22s are rear-ported. If they are mounted 1" from the wall it would probably be a bad idea to leave the port open. Should I plug the ports and let the AVR do it's thing with the crossover frequency and tuning? I have a sub, so the ability of the front 3 to reproduce low bass isn't an issue.

I should also probably add that I will be treating the room to an extent. Thick curtains on the rear wall and homemade acoustic panels on the walls. That will certainly help the acoustics in the room.

Members here have experimented with treatments and speaker positioning extensively. A guilty party here....

If you are going the treatment route there are a few active here with the ability and zeal to help you out. We like pictures....

I cant comment on ports near walls in M22s. Smaller speakers like bookshelves are probably more tolerant than floorstanders at lower frquencies, but both will suffer in the frequency range of human voices. Both of these are readily fixed if you are willing to eq.

I used to have a shelf mounted center under a screen much like Nick and the performance was still very respectable.

I wouldn't say that it would "see-saw" but you could adjust its angle slightly when tightened. It takes a couple of muscles to move it once mounted, but not a lot of muscle. Bumping it with your head might shift it a small amount, but nothing catastrophic and maybe 1/16 to 1/8 of an inch depending on how big of a bump you have on your head. LOL

Thanks for the additional info. It's good to know the VP150 doesn't "see saw" on the full metal bracket. I do need to take a careful look at the bracket to see how much up/down angle adjustment there is.

My center channel will be mounted in the usual under-the-screen location. I don't have an exact measurement yet for where the bottom of the screen will be, but I am thinking I may need more upward-angle on the bracket than it can provide. So, the VP150 on the FMB is a maybe at this point, but I'm pretty much sold on putting the M22s on the FMB...assuming plugging the port for HT duty would be OK. I can't remember off the top of my head what frequency the port tunes the cabinet to, but I'm betting it's lower than the 100Hz or 80Hz the AVR will set the crossover at....or I can just set the L/C/R at 80Hz and be done with it.

More thought needs to go into this, I know, but those are my thoughts at this time.

As for the room treatments; as I stated, I won't be going nuts with it and RTA sweeping the room from 32 different positions. I'll treat the whole rear of the room with curtains, then panels at the first reflection points and probably call it good. (Sacrilege, I know). There will be carpet on the floor and possibly a thick throw rug under the first row of seating.

The fact that you are even considering first reflection points and are conscious of treating the back wall (presumably for echo/bass improvements) is a big leap in the right firection. You will be pleased.

From my experience, if you arent going to measure the room, what you are looking at doing would be the extent of what you should do. FRP and echoe treatments are "do no harm" measures. Corner bass traps are also universally a good idea.

Beyond that you really need to start looking at frequency vs decay time plots. Otherwise you can suck too much energy out of the room in a narrow band of sound. It gets pretty geeky down that road.

Well, it is certainly good to hear that I'm heading down the correct path. Thanks! I know a lot of the basics but never got down into "the math of it."

It will be an interesting room, b/c most times there will be 3 people watching a movie, but when we have company, there could be 10+ people in there. Bodies soak up acoustical energy and change the way sound moves through a room. I don't have a lot of money to throw at "acoustics" hence my home made acoustic panels and heavy curtains at the back of the room.

My mount failed. VP150 fell, tore my screen, a screen material I could not get anymore, and I ended up with an inferior screen as a replacement, and I am still using the vp150. Axiom claims the mount was over tightened, I beg to differ. I blamed the very cheap screw mount which cracked and failed. Thankfully no dogs, kids, or ME got injured as it fell late at night.

see thread
http://www.axiomaudio.com/boards/ubbthre...larg#Post319167

I was not a happy camper, and Axiom did not really give me the support I had hoped. Regardless, I have remained an Axiom loyal customer, but still....their mount failed. Cost me a new screen.

It has since been remounted, with a thicker screw mod I did, but now is below the screen.

The basics laws of physics would make me want to build a shelf. Of course, I've always had a tendency to over-build everything.

Yikes Newf! Glad all was ok people wise.

Wow, I read that whole thread, Newf and sorry to see what you went through. Luckily, no one got hurt, but your screen...that stinks!

I can see the logic of having the extra holes in the FMB to put screws through, and should I mount my VP150 with the FMB I'll probably do just that.

But I can also see the logic of re-engineering that piece of the mount to incorporate two bolt holes instead of one. Yes; that would mean redoing the CNC files for the whole axiom line to drill for two threaded nut inserts vs. one. But really, how much work is that? A few minutes? And it would add exactly 10 cents to the build cost of each speaker for the extra threaded insert.

My personal opinion is that the single mount point isn't the best-engineered of ideas for the VP150 and it's debatable for the M22s as well, though I will probably do it for the M22s, pending my seat-of-the-pants testing/impressions.

My mount failed. VP150 fell, tore my screen, a screen material I could not get anymore, and I ended up with an inferior screen as a replacement, and I am still using the vp150. Axiom claims the mount was over tightened, I beg to differ. I blamed the very cheap screw mount which cracked and failed. Thankfully no dogs, kids, or ME got injured as it fell late at night.

see thread
http://www.axiomaudio.com/boards/ubbthre...larg#Post319167

I was not a happy camper, and Axiom did not really give me the support I had hoped. Regardless, I have remained an Axiom loyal customer, but still....their mount failed. Cost me a new screen.

It has since been remounted, with a thicker screw mod I did, but now is below the screen.


Holy crap, that is a lot of weight (22lbs) to hang off a cheesy little insert , which from your pictures looks like it should be inserted the other way so it bites into the wood. Anyone mounting a VP150 should pull out the front drivers and put a plate on the inside and use a nut and bolt. I am surprised Axiom didn't stand behind that since they claim that mount will work with a VP-150.

Aside from the aforementioned opinions on the mount, i fail to see why ANY mount wouldn't have at least 2 points of contact for mounting. This greatly decreases the risk of a failure of a single point causing so much damage.

A decent non-shearing screw still only costs a few cents each.