You are not logged in. [Log In]


Forums » General Discussion » The Water Cooler » Comb Filtering - AVS Thread

Page 1 of 5 1 2 3 4 5 >
Topic Options
Rate This Topic
#410383 - 02/21/15 12:59 PM Comb Filtering - AVS Thread
exlabdriver Offline
connoisseur

Registered: 09/07/11
Posts: 1725
I cringe to think where this is going to go:

http://www.avsforum.com/forum/89-speakers/1903601-how-i-learned-stop-worrying-love-comb.html

Lots of reference to Axiom in there...

TAM



Edited by exlabdriver (02/21/15 01:23 PM)

Top
#410384 - 02/21/15 02:05 PM Re: Comb Filtering - AVS Thread [Re: exlabdriver]
casey01 Offline
aficionado

Registered: 07/03/08
Posts: 852
Loc: Toronto
Originally Posted By: exlabdriver
I cringe to think where this is going to go:

http://www.avsforum.com/forum/89-speakers/1903601-how-i-learned-stop-worrying-love-comb.html

Lots of reference to Axiom in there...

TAM



I am sure, before too long, the same cast of characters will emerge from the woodwork. It is interesting to note, whether it is this kind of stuff or something else, I learned a lesson long ago from a neighbor of mine who essentially stated, "if you can't hear it or see it, it really doesn't exist". The reason I put some stock in that comment is that this fellow was a broadcast technician for a television station, a computer expert, an A/V enthusiast who had an extensive set-up and a fellow who had actually built his own video processors that he had integrated in to his rack. He also had an extensive line-up of various testing equipment in his home which in addition to testing the performance of equipment, it also could test various audio and video cables as well. Periodically, we would test various pieces of equipment and cables and, at times, on that test equipment, variances in "alleged" performance would register, yet, when doing critical "real world" viewing or listening, rarely, if at all, could either of us detect any differences.

I guess the bottom line is, while reviewers and naysayers of various brands use this kind of information in graphs and test equipment to justify their positions, for someone to make a decision on how good a product is using these methods is, at best, "questionable".

Top
#410385 - 02/21/15 02:32 PM Re: Comb Filtering - AVS Thread [Re: exlabdriver]
exlabdriver Offline
connoisseur

Registered: 09/07/11
Posts: 1725
I went back & read the whole thing & I think that my head is about to explode, ha!!

My beliefs all along have been that in most HT rooms, this stuff just is not a significant factor.

For those who care not to indulge in AVS, this is my 'layman's' reply there:


In my unscientific experiments with 4 horizontal CC Speakers of different brands only using my ears, I found that in my room, unless one is placed so far off center (+30 degrees), audio deficits were basically not audible to me.

Furthermore, if one is sitting at beyond 30 degrees at 11 ft from my screen, far more serious visual problems with the display begin to crop up & are much more distracting & degrade the HT experience. Not the place to be IMO...


The advent of laptops couple with software & cheap microphones has many people thinking that they are portable anechoic chambers. Sorry, but they aren't - although they can be an interesting tool I suppose.

I now just enjoy the material & don't sweat the small stuff that many enthusiasts needlessly obsess over...

TAM

Top
#410389 - 02/21/15 06:36 PM Re: Comb Filtering - AVS Thread [Re: exlabdriver]
Serenity_then Offline
connoisseur

Registered: 03/28/14
Posts: 1565
Loc: PEI, Canada
Hats off to the Doc. A very well presented intro to a discussion of a topic as cryptic to understand as it is to realise in an actual room. With pink noise it can be observed readily, but it is very hard with program material.

I think posts like this are of high value, not only for Axiom, but for those who wish to understand the behavior of audio and relate theory to improvements into their rooms. I look forward to DrStrangequark's conclusions after setup. cool

Honestly, the one person who could spot it reliably it seemed was Mojo. He had issues in his setup and could find the same issue in mine. He had developed an ear for it I guess. I had never noticed it before..... There are so many factors apart from the speaker design itself that I would argue contribute more to the overall sound experience.

There is a lot of nonsense sabre rattling over at AVS. I picture a group of the same 5 guys together with sore hands from repeated top gun high fives. However, AVS isn't universally terrible. Some people just spend waaay too much time there instead of with real human interaction. Their online life simply becomes their life. Kinda sad.
_________________________
Trevor. Cold turkey. Thanks guys. Cheers.

Top
#410390 - 02/21/15 07:24 PM Re: Comb Filtering - AVS Thread [Re: exlabdriver]
exlabdriver Offline
connoisseur

Registered: 09/07/11
Posts: 1725
Sitting in my 'sweet spot' running test noise material from my Denon AVR, I can hear the difference between my L & R M22s & my VP 160 Speaker - even though they are supposedly timbre matched. It is probably because I'm off axis with the L & R whereas I'm right in the center of the CC.

Is this apparent during real world material? Not that I can tell & I certainly don't fret about it.

Doc was logged in here today & I had a couple of interesting PMs with him. Very reasonable guy...

TAM

Top
#410391 - 02/21/15 07:58 PM Re: Comb Filtering - AVS Thread [Re: exlabdriver]
Gr8_White_North Offline
connoisseur

Registered: 07/12/09
Posts: 2225
Loc: Whitehorse YT
I suspect most room correction software can take care of it smartly anyway unless your a purist and listen to 2 channel direct or dsd.
_________________________
DOG is GOD spelled backwards.
What others think of me is none of my business.
M80 V3 MY GLOSS Cherry

Top
#410393 - 02/21/15 10:57 PM Re: Comb Filtering - AVS Thread [Re: exlabdriver]
chesseroo Offline
axiomite

Registered: 05/13/02
Posts: 5171
Loc: western canada
I may as well comment since i am also a scientist who holds a PhD....which sometimes for some people means "pretty horribly dumb" since often some forget to look at the big picture and get too focused on the minutia...

Sure, there are things that can be measured, but the question remains as to whether they can be heard and interpreted by the human ear/brain.
Although the AVS post is well thought out, the very remark made near the start in paragraph 6 " I am not a golden-eared audiophile, although I know good sound when I hear it" says to me that this scientist hasn't done basic research in pychoacoustics regarding the published material and the fact that the concept of golden eared people is a fallacy (no personal offence intended, maybe he is aware).

Bottom line, as said by those previously, even though it can be theorized or measured, does it matter?
Can humans even hear it under controlled conditions?
If not, who the hell cares?


Edited by chesseroo (02/21/15 10:58 PM)
_________________________
"Those who preach the myths of audio are ignorant of truth."

Top
#410395 - 02/22/15 02:53 AM Re: Comb Filtering - AVS Thread [Re: chesseroo]
CV Online   confused
Founder, Axiom Upgrade Club
shareholder in the making

Registered: 07/20/06
Posts: 11677
Loc: Richland, WA, USA
Originally Posted By: chesseroo
If not, who the hell cares?


Luke Skywalker.

Top
#410396 - 02/22/15 07:09 AM Re: Comb Filtering - AVS Thread [Re: chesseroo]
Ken.C Offline
shareholder in the making

Registered: 05/03/03
Posts: 18044
Loc: NoVA
Originally Posted By: chesseroo
I may as well comment since i am also a scientist who holds a PhD....which sometimes for some people means "pretty horribly dumb" since often some forget to look at the big picture and get too focused on the minutia...


God save us all! A self-aware Ph.D!
_________________________
I am the Doctor, and THIS... is my SPOON!

Top
#410397 - 02/22/15 07:12 AM Re: Comb Filtering - AVS Thread [Re: chesseroo]
Serenity_then Offline
connoisseur

Registered: 03/28/14
Posts: 1565
Loc: PEI, Canada
I sense the docs midichlorian count is high. We should follow his path closely. Search your feelings Chess, you know this to be true. The fate of the rebellion may depend on it....

::wipe to rebel fleet::
_________________________
Trevor. Cold turkey. Thanks guys. Cheers.

Top
Page 1 of 5 1 2 3 4 5 >

Moderator:  alan, Amie, Andrew, axiomadmin, Brent, Debbie, Ian, Jc 
Forum Stats

15,233 Registered Members
15 Forums
24,008 Topics
424,190 Posts

Most users ever online:
883 @ 03/04/17 05:06 PM

Top Posters
Ken.C 18044
pmbuko 16437
SirQuack 13571
CV 11677
MarkSJohnson 11437
1 registered (CV)
180 Guests and
3 Spiders online.
Key: Admin, Global Mod, Mod
Newsletter Signup