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#411075 - 03/24/15 09:04 PM M100 amp selection
Andre Offline
hobbyist

Registered: 10/25/11
Posts: 20
I currently have a Denon X4000 I am getting some M100 but I am not sure if it has enough power for them. I know the specs say minimum of 10 watts but I don't think that kind of power will make them sing.

I am also looking at a Crown XLI 800 and a Samson Servo 600

thoughts?

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#411076 - 03/24/15 09:42 PM Re: M100 amp selection [Re: Andre]
Adrian Offline
axiomite

Registered: 12/27/08
Posts: 6878
Loc: It's all about the location.
2 Channel or HT?
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Half of communication is listening. You can't listen with your mouth.

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#411077 - 03/24/15 09:46 PM Re: M100 amp selection [Re: Andre]
Andre Offline
hobbyist

Registered: 10/25/11
Posts: 20
HT. The center is a VP150 the side surrounds are QS8 Rear QS4. Sub is a SVS PC12 NSD

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#411078 - 03/24/15 10:18 PM Re: M100 amp selection [Re: Andre]
Adrian Offline
axiomite

Registered: 12/27/08
Posts: 6878
Loc: It's all about the location.
I'd try the Denon by itself first. A lot depends on your listening levels of course, but your sub should cover the lowest freq's where the 100s are dipping down to 4 ohms so that shouldn't be a problem regardless. Add power later if you feel it's necessary.
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Half of communication is listening. You can't listen with your mouth.

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#411079 - 03/24/15 10:26 PM Re: M100 amp selection [Re: Andre]
Andre Offline
hobbyist

Registered: 10/25/11
Posts: 20
I wonder if I should run them Large or small with a crossover below 80hz....hmmm

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#411082 - 03/24/15 11:30 PM Re: M100 amp selection [Re: Andre]
JohnK Offline
shareholder in the making

Registered: 05/11/02
Posts: 10623
Andre, the M100s are of about average sensitivity(1 watt needed for 88dB at 1 meter)and have no unusual power requirements. Don't think that bigger speaker means bigger amplifier, because there's no necessary relationship between the two. Often a smaller speaker may be of lower sensitivity and would need more power for the same sound level.

Even 10 watts would make the M100s "sing" at a quite loud level about 93dB per speaker at a typical listening distance. The 125 watt rated X4000 has a fine amplifier and should have ample capacity for brief peaks at high(but safe)listening levels.
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#411105 - 03/25/15 05:12 PM Re: M100 amp selection [Re: Andre]
MatManhasgone Offline
aficionado

Registered: 05/06/14
Posts: 977
Loc: Lost in the great wide yonder
I find that most ( I might even say all ) modern Class D receivers suck in getting a pleasing sound output.

i have an old Nakamichi AV1 that was rated at a whole whopping 100W at 8ohms. When I hooked up the M80's that I initally ordered they absolutely sang at 1/3 volume, and had no distortion up to 1/2 volume when my wife ran in and told me to turn it down.

I had a more modern Pioneer SC1527 rated at 130W, and it sounded rather lacking at -10db (about 9/10 volume) and just got worse sounding but louder at -5db. This 15 years newer and more powerful unit just does not sound nearly as good as some rather old REAL A/B class amp.

I bought an Anthem MCA5ii that is rated at 200W when hooked up with the Pioneer, sounds just as good as the Nakamichi.

My suggestion is don't fool yourself into thinking that a modern receiver in a reasonable sub $3k price range will sound good. The SC1527 went back and I exchanged it for a cheaper SC1227 ($500) just to get the pre-out and now run everything with a dedicated amp. The onboard stuff is crap.

The only reason i am not using the Nak. it doesn't support any of the digital decoding.
_________________________
Anthem: AVM60
Axiom: ADA1000, LFR1100, VP180, QS8, EP500, M3, M3comp
AudioSource: Amp One/A

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#411108 - 03/25/15 07:08 PM Re: M100 amp selection [Re: Andre]
Andre Offline
hobbyist

Registered: 10/25/11
Posts: 20
According to Denon the X4000 uses a class AB amplification

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#411110 - 03/25/15 07:42 PM Re: M100 amp selection [Re: Andre]
MatManhasgone Offline
aficionado

Registered: 05/06/14
Posts: 977
Loc: Lost in the great wide yonder
Not wanting to come across as dissing your investment. It could be a wonderful unit. I am just stating my own observations and conclusions from past experience.

I would not say that my Anthem MCA5ii is a top end amp. I know there are some that are more powerful and again from past experience, very pleasant sounding but sadly way outside of my cost bracket.

But I would worry if the X4000 is an A/B amp driving 7 speakers at 125W as it weighs in at 27lbs. Compare that to my Anthem that is admittedly more powerful but over double the weight. An A/B amp would need a pretty heavy toroidal transformer and some large capacitors. Those are heavy and the weight of this unit seems rather light. Even my old Nak was over 30lbs.

What you might find is running every speaker off the unit and it will get power starved in any frequency required passage. The way they get around this is to offload the parts that pull the most power (below 100hz) off to a Sub. Set the speakers at small and all is good.

However, you then in my opinion bought the wrong speakers for the unit.

The beauty of the M100 ( I have the bigger parent LFR1100 ) is they really can play close to full range sound. Now they tell us that sub freqency is non directional. I really don't believe that as I can blindfolded easily tell the difference between my speakers running full frequency and using them small with a sub. They simply sound better running as they were designed for. they give of a presence that is more than just a sound, but a feeling of life inside the speakers. Dont sell yourself short.

Now, if you look on the used market, you can probably find quite a decent A/B amp for around the $6-700 that will make those M100 fronts just sing.

That in turn will reduce the power hungry load from the M100's off the receiver and give the other 8ohm speakers a fighting chance to play well as the 4ohm L&R will not be sucking the life out of sound stage.
_________________________
Anthem: AVM60
Axiom: ADA1000, LFR1100, VP180, QS8, EP500, M3, M3comp
AudioSource: Amp One/A

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#411125 - 03/26/15 09:37 AM Re: M100 amp selection [Re: Andre]
Andre Offline
hobbyist

Registered: 10/25/11
Posts: 20
There was an Arcam on the Canukaudiomart in Edmonton but I missed it, hence the reason I was looking at the class AB Crown XLI. The speakers cost enough so I have to keep the amp cost as low as possible or the wife will.....

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