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#412162 - 05/16/15 02:32 AM Ultra HD Blu-ray
CV Offline
Founder, Axiom Upgrade Club
shareholder in the making

Registered: 07/20/06
Posts: 11704
Loc: Richland, WA, USA
Blu-ray Disc Association Completes Ultra HD Blu-ray Specification and Releases New Logo

Now that the spec is finalized, what do you think? It seems like they hit all of the points I wanted them to, but I'm not the most technically-minded person here. Besides the new audio formats, expanded color gamut and HDR seem like the biggest leaps forward. I'm excited to see superior content on the emerging display technologies.

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#412163 - 05/16/15 07:22 AM Re: Ultra HD Blu-ray [Re: CV]
MatManhasgone Offline
connoisseur

Registered: 05/06/14
Posts: 1030
Loc: Lost in the great wide yonder
I have not read the whole spec, but it looks like the New UHD players will be made to read older Blu Ray, so I can only guess that older blu ray players will not be able to read the new UHD but play in a regular blu ray resolution/spec.

Here is where I see the problem. There are not many stores that carry movies at least not around me. The ones that do have two columns of shelves with 2/3 devoted to DVD and 1/3 to Blu Ray. So no you introduce a 3rd new format. Who is going to carry it? You are stuck with a single source now like Amazon. You loose the impulse buy all together and there will be ZERO driving force to bring the prices down. Say FRINGE MARKET.
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#412167 - 05/16/15 11:51 AM Re: Ultra HD Blu-ray [Re: CV]
nickbuol Offline
axiomite

Registered: 09/16/04
Posts: 5338
Loc: Marion, IA
My oldest is getting married in June 2016, she had 7 bridemaids from college over last night, plus my 16 year old, my wife, and my mother-in-law. Needless to say, I was outnumbered... Anyway, they wanted to watch "27 Dresses" in preparation for today. I know nothing about the movie, but they seemed to think that it was enjoyable.

"Dad, can you run to the video store and get 27 Dresses"... Sure, something to get away from the chaos and into the peacefulness of my car for the long 3 minute drive. :-)

Anyway, the video store only has it on DVD... FULL SCREEN DVD to be precise.

Oh well, it isn't like *I* am watching it.

So they are all happy, and they are watching the movie while I literally spend the entire run time of the movie, and then some, cleaning up from dinner.

OK, ok... back on track.

At one point I go into the theater room and see how they are doing. I look at the screen.. YUCK. Not only does it have wide black bars on the right and left of the image, but the quality is, well... DVD.

I have a feeling that at some point I will feel the same about "regular" blu-ray.

I will NOT re-buy movies on UHD. I think that over the years I've had 4 versions of Star Wars and said "wow, I can't wait for this on blu-ray" and guess what? I've watched just 1.5 of the 6 movies since I bought it on release day. Why? Was the quality bad? No, it is just that I've seen them so many times.

Right now, I have 15 of my 16 TB of space used on my media server. The average movie size (keeping in mind that some are just 5-6 GB DVDs)is just over 27GB. I can't imagine the space needed for UHD rips.

Plus right now, you can't rip Atmos tracks from the discs that have it (the same will hold true for a while with DTS:X once it gets going). Yes, you can get Atmos on "regular" blu-ray, but just saying that you currently must have the disc in-hand to get Atmos currently. That also means that it will be a long time before UHD can be ripped as well. So whenever the day comes that I can afford a UHD level projector, THEN I will look at switching. I will also have the media server for my "legacy" blu-ray collection, and a stand alone UHD player for the new format...

Not clean, not easy, but improvement in something that I love is good by me. My fear though is that some movies won't have a good transfer for a while, so they may be on an UHD disc, but still look like blu-ray.
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#412168 - 05/16/15 12:05 PM Re: Ultra HD Blu-ray [Re: MatManhasgone]
casey01 Offline
aficionado

Registered: 07/03/08
Posts: 852
Loc: Toronto
Originally Posted By: oakvillematt
I have not read the whole spec, but it looks like the New UHD players will be made to read older Blu Ray, so I can only guess that older blu ray players will not be able to read the new UHD but play in a regular blu ray resolution/spec.

Here is where I see the problem. There are not many stores that carry movies at least not around me. The ones that do have two columns of shelves with 2/3 devoted to DVD and 1/3 to Blu Ray. So no you introduce a 3rd new format. Who is going to carry it? You are stuck with a single source now like Amazon. You loose the impulse buy all together and there will be ZERO driving force to bring the prices down. Say FRINGE MARKET.


What you say about the reduction in stores selling movies is quite true and aside from the usual Best Buy and music stores like HMV that sell them, there is not much left. It is interesting to note though in that up until a couple of years ago, I was buying a considerable number through an independent store just up the street from me who had been around for about fifteen years but, unfortunately, went out of business. When I talked to one of the owners, he told me they weren't closing because people weren't buying movies it was because customers were no longer buying from them and were now going online to places such as those you mentioned(Amazon.com/ca) for prices that undercut them and in certain cases offer free delivery. Like many other forms of storefront retailers that have failed in recent years, these guys were just another example of those that succumbed to online shopping.

As in previous technologies the hardware always tends to precede the software in the market place, so clearly, if the prices are right and the mass market is interested, it should do OK. We will see.

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#412184 - 05/17/15 07:47 AM Re: Ultra HD Blu-ray [Re: nickbuol]
MatManhasgone Offline
connoisseur

Registered: 05/06/14
Posts: 1030
Loc: Lost in the great wide yonder
Originally Posted By: nickbuol

"Dad, can you run to the video store and get 27 Dresses"... Sure, something to get away from the chaos and into the peacefulness of my car for the long 3 minute drive. :-)

Anyway, the video store only has it on DVD... FULL SCREEN DVD to be precise.

Oh well, it isn't like *I* am watching it.

So they are all happy, and they are watching the movie while I literally spend the entire run time of the movie, and then some, cleaning up from dinner.

OK, ok... back on track.

At one point I go into the theater room and see how they are doing. I look at the screen.. YUCK. Not only does it have wide black bars on the right and left of the image, but the quality is, well... DVD.


And in there lies the crux of truth. Out of the collection of people watching the movie, one out of the (10+) could not give a hoot that it was on DVD (and in a butchered full screen version at that)

The rental store that you got it from knows that and figures that to carry a movie they need to provide to the lowest common denominator that is DVD that will get the widest viewing audience as blu ray plays dvd but not the other way around.

So you bring in that third format and what is going to happen. break it down into the two parts.

1. Given enough time the cost of the UHD TV's will fall that they will become more common in the average house because that is the only option there is to buy (talking 10-15 years).

2. Nickbuol and a select few will get the new UHD Blu Ray format. The cost of manufacturing will fall over time, but the movie companies will still charge a premium for the format as they figure that you are getting a premium product so you must pay the premium price. People buy on price and as long as DVD is a good 40-50% less cost that a blu ray then they will buy that format. The movie companies are screwing themselves as in quite a few cases it cost them more to master it on DVD as it cost to do the same movie on blu ray. pressing costs are identical. They probably could make more money to kill off DVD releases and just sell blu ray.

Most people can't and won't give a hoot about if it looks better or not. I rented a cottage for a week and they had a 50" LCD flat screen tv in the main room with a VCR hooked up to it and a stack of movies. It was horid to even try and watch and thank goodness that I brought my own laptop with a bunch of .mkv movies on it and used the HDMI cable from the cable decoder hookup. The advert said large TV and a whole load of great movies.
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Anthem: AVM60
Axiom: ADA1000, LFR1100, VP180, QS8, EP500, M3, M3comp
AudioSource: Amp One/A

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#412185 - 05/17/15 09:07 AM Re: Ultra HD Blu-ray [Re: CV]
Serenity_then Offline
connoisseur

Registered: 03/28/14
Posts: 1572
Loc: PEI, Canada
People still want hard copy media. Those who buy bluray citing quality as the reason will buy Ultra blurays. Amazon still sells tons of CDs (and now vynil) for heavens sakes. It is still profitable.

Isnt part of the new spec being backwards compatible to avoid all of the pitfalls mentioned? ie. An Ultra bluray will play in a standard current gen bluray player.

I think the average person would be perfectly happy with current technology as you say (whatever is current to them.) Progressive enthusiasts in any hobby drive it forward and ultimately benefit everyone in the end -If for nothing else to drive the AV quality of created content higher.

I dont know just how many people I have "awakened" since getting into AV nuttery. What I can say is upon meeting friends of friends for the first time I get "youre the guy I need to ask about this". I'm sure we all get that to some extent. People are curious, if not excited, after a cutting edge (for them) demo.

These technologies are shaping the future of home entertainment. Most people wont know what theyre missing until they first experience it. Mass consumption may not be on a spinning disc, but the digital streams will soon be next gen formats anyhow.
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Trevor. Cold turkey. Thanks guys. Cheers.

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#412189 - 05/17/15 01:09 PM Re: Ultra HD Blu-ray [Re: MatManhasgone]
fredk Offline
axiomite

Registered: 12/06/07
Posts: 7786
Loc: Canada
Originally Posted By: oakvillematt
... Say FRINGE MARKET.

Yup. Bluray is nothing more than a fringe/niche market. Most people don't even have a screen big enough (or sit close enough) for bluray to make a difference let alone UHD.

Heck, with my 50" RP I could barely tell the difference between upscaled DVD and Bluray and I was closer to my screen than most are for something that size.
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-------
Blujays1: Spending Fred's money one bottle at a time, no two... Oh crap!

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#412195 - 05/17/15 02:03 PM Re: Ultra HD Blu-ray [Re: CV]
CV Offline
Founder, Axiom Upgrade Club
shareholder in the making

Registered: 07/20/06
Posts: 11704
Loc: Richland, WA, USA
I'm just going to ignore the reasons the format might not perform because I personally want the technology. It won't fail because of me. Ha ha.

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#412197 - 05/17/15 04:49 PM Re: Ultra HD Blu-ray [Re: CV]
Serenity_then Offline
connoisseur

Registered: 03/28/14
Posts: 1572
Loc: PEI, Canada
Once oppo announces, I'm there too. wink
_________________________
Trevor. Cold turkey. Thanks guys. Cheers.

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#412205 - 05/18/15 02:12 AM Re: Ultra HD Blu-ray [Re: fredk]
Hansang Offline
aficionado

Registered: 02/07/07
Posts: 602
Loc: New York
Originally Posted By: fredk
Originally Posted By: oakvillematt
... Say FRINGE MARKET.

Yup. Bluray is nothing more than a fringe/niche market. Most people don't even have a screen big enough (or sit close enough) for bluray to make a difference let alone UHD.

Heck, with my 50" RP I could barely tell the difference between upscaled DVD and Bluray and I was closer to my screen than most are for something that size.


Fredk, it's possible that your RP is the limiting factor.

When I got the 4K 50" TV, the difference between HD and 4K was palpable. There are many YouTube videos in 4K and it's simply jaw dropping. When you look at animals with fur/feather or human hair, or blades of grass, it's immediately apparent that 4K makes a *huge* difference. To me, it's the same as going from SD to HD. So it's like anything else. If you never fly business class, economy is fine. If you never drive a Ferrari/Porsche 911 GT3, _insert-car-here_ will be just fine.

I'm not being facetious here. Once you experience something better, (better home, better AC, better car, better sound, better glasses, better vacuum) it's hard to go back. smile

hsb
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