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#414615 - 09/23/15 07:01 PM AVR vs Seprerate- Measured
Serenity_Now Offline

Registered: 03/28/14
Posts: 991
Loc: PEI, Canada
Is it possible amps sound different? Frequency response measurements say maybe.... Or do they?

To be fair, this is a garbage test, including subs not recalibrated between amps. The gain between the amps is slightly different, so the bass in the room slightly differs between tests. Could this be why people perceive a "fuller" sound between amps? Or is there enough variability above the crossover frequency (60hz plus rolloff in this case) to call differences audible. You decide. smile

The 2ch amp needs a 1.5db boost in the preout settings to match the AVR's internal amp gain I'm guessing, but we're in the ballpark anyway.

2ch amp- 1/12 octave pink noise averaged

Edited by Serenity_Now (09/23/15 07:12 PM)

#414616 - 09/23/15 07:02 PM Re: AVR vs Sererate- Measured [Re: Serenity_Now]
Serenity_Now Offline

Registered: 03/28/14
Posts: 991
Loc: PEI, Canada
AVR - 1/12 octave pink noise averaged

#414619 - 09/23/15 08:16 PM Re: AVR vs Separate- Measured [Re: Serenity_Now]
craigsub Offline

Registered: 12/15/03
Posts: 1480
Without more sweeps being run, and blind tests conducted between the two, it's pretty much impossible to make any substantive observations on the two graphs. The general shapes are comparable, and the smoothing applied plus other factors (air movement in the room, slight change in microphone position, etc ... ) are unknowns.

Researching and asking are good things, though. smile
Old enough to know better.

#414624 - 09/24/15 05:21 AM Re: AVR vs Separate- Measured [Re: Serenity_Now]
Serenity_Now Offline

Registered: 03/28/14
Posts: 991
Loc: PEI, Canada
I thought the graphs would be the same. Slight variations can be seen between 1-4khz. There is more of a tilting into the valley trend with the AVR and a bump right before 2khz. May be nothing.

I dont test using sweeps most of the time, the reason is as you stated, variability. I run pink noise and set the FFT to average the spl per frequency over time. I give it 30 seconds or so, but usually the graph has fully stabilized by the 7-10 second mark.

I use 1/12 octave resolution (twice what we are thought to be able to hear) because 1/3 or even 1/6 resolution can hide narrow high Q problems. Not that we are very good at hearing those either. smile

As a curiosity, sighted, I preferred the sound at first of the AVR over the power amp..... Once I started to turn it up however, the Amp remained sounding composed while the AVR started to sound brassy. Its hard to describe, but guitars start to sound more twangy with the AVR at higher volumes. Audible distortion perhaps? I would have never noticed it without a comparison like this.

I could be imagining things. I should re-run the measurements at a higher db and see.

I used the track "Timshel" from Mumford and Sons album Sigh No More for testing.

#415571 - 11/22/15 11:50 AM Re: AVR vs Seprerate- Measured [Re: Serenity_Now]
Serenity_Now Offline

Registered: 03/28/14
Posts: 991
Loc: PEI, Canada
I've been watching/listening to a lot of content lately with my father in law. He is a little older than me and his listening volume preference is a little higher than mine. I would say my average level is somewhere around 60-65db avg while his is 70-75 db avg.

Anyway, I have started to notice brief moments when listening to concerts and the lotr: two towers with him that my AVR was sounding a little strained.

My room is pretty much treated now and I've lived with it long enough to be pretty keen on subtle changes. It is not hard to hear when channel levels are out of whack even a couple db now and it is pretty easy to hear differences in balance when the sub levels are adjusted by a single db in the AVR setup menu. shocked

As a bit of a test I hooked up my 2ch power amp. I'm still waiting to get it properly integrated into my system. Stupid proptrietary gear! mad I reset the trim levels for the preouts to match the spl of the other channels (75dba) and sat for a listen to some Daft Punk -RAM.


It sounded like a step backwards. I preferred the sound of my AVR I had just bypassed...... What?! I tried to think why as I clicked through tracks and it dawned on me. The towers were now producing bass at levels that were enough of a change to throw out the sub/speaker balance. I turned the sub trim down by 1db. Yes, 1db, and everything fell right back into place.

1db. Wtf. Audio is a strange game.

The amplifier is capable of much more current vs the AVR at any listening level and the entire power balance had shifted towards slightly more bass. Not a ton, but enough I could notice the fingering on guitars in "get lucky" was being masked by what I perceived as bass a little proud of the balance I had.

After the slight adjustment, the balance now sounds right again, and it is indistinguishable from the old setup to my ears.


I can now listen at any volume and the pitch of the track doesnt shift with loudness, as it did with the AVR. There is no more "brassyness" or hardness at loudish listening levels. I have a few tracks I crank and listen to to relax. I really like Enya's Caribbean Blue loud. So euphoric. I always thought the track had been mixed so the first couple loud tones in the song had a pronounced peakiness or attack to them. They aren't supposed to. My AVR was adding distortion once I poured the volume on. Not at agressive levels either.... Like 80db or so.

Food for thought if nothing else.


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