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#415658 - 11/28/15 10:02 AM What to do with a problem called Grounding
MatManhasgone Offline
aficionado

Registered: 05/06/14
Posts: 987
Loc: Lost in the great wide yonder
I am at a loss on what the best move to do is. I have a grounding issue and no idea on what direction is the best move to go.

I have the LFR1100 speakers so they have their own DSP. This is made by Axiom and has been tested and looked at by Andrew and I will assume that he knows what the hell is is doing and not feeling me BS.

I have bought a $1000 Anthem MCA5ii (5 channel 200w8ohm) that has the power to nicely run the LFR's and my VP180 center channel speaker. Sadly however, the MCA doesn't like the Axiom DSP if you connect them via RCA interconnects. One has a floating ground and the other unit does not. So RCA's are out.

I recently upgraded to the Marantz AV7005 pre-amp to get my XLR interconnects so I am not loosing the 12db of power difference by using the RCA - XLR cables to feed the DSP. However, the AV7005 seems to have it's own set of issues the grounding when use with the amp and dsp. If I plug in some equipment with the HDMI I get the feedback humm from the LFR's. My new Panasonic TV gives a small humm on the VP180.

I get ZERO problems of feedback humm from my QS8's that are hooked up through my AudioSource Amp/One-A. This amp does not have any XLR connectors and works fine with even the LFR's but doesn't have quite the power to drive the LFR's at a more reference level.

Before the Marantz, I was using a Pioneer receiver that didn't have any issues with ground feedback humm but lost the -12db due to the MCA / DSP need for the XLR interconnects.

I bought the Marantz used so I can't tell if it is the problem and have no means or desire to throw money at it getting it tested as ground fault issues are the dogs breakfast to resolve. It was the last component to be added. But on the logical side, with new Atmos and DTS-X, the AV7005 is capable of at most 7.2 and no support for the newer standards. I doubt that I will ever go for Atmos but in the next few years maybe the AV8801 will be swapped out by someone and I can pick one up for a better price.

Looking a bit deeper however, the MCA5 doesn't work right with the DSP and this might be the source of the issue. As the Marantz and Axiom DSP play nice with my other amp, perhaps that is the real piece that needs to be solved. But the amp can be a rather expensive piece to replace. Do I replace the 5 channel amp with a pair of matched 2 channel amp that are rated to work down to the 4ohms? Trying to get matched stereo amps used is a good luck endeavor. Crown is a possibility to buy for not too much money. There is Emotiva and Outlaw.. but I can easily see the bill getting up to the 2-3k. And again you are buying blind in the hopes that they will play nice with the Axiom DSP.

The sure fire one that should work would be to get an Axiom amp, but $3000+ for 5 channels it more cost that I would like to spend.

Any thoughts??
_________________________
Anthem: AVM60
Axiom: ADA1000, LFR1100, VP180, QS8, EP500, M3, M3comp
AudioSource: Amp One/A

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#415661 - 11/28/15 02:11 PM Re: What to do with a problem called Grounding [Re: MatManhasgone]
Gr8_White_North Offline
connoisseur

Registered: 07/12/09
Posts: 2232
Loc: Whitehorse YT
Matt, I have been exactly where you are in regards to hum and ground loops. I tried a lot of different things before I got rid of the hum . Hum can drive a guy crazy and I tried a lot of things I found searching the internet. I ended up hooking certain components together on a dedicated power bar and removed the ground lug. Other components were connected to yet another power bar and extension cord to a plugin on a separate breaker. Start your process by keeping to a minimum of components . Cablevision cables are notorious for causing ground loops. In my main system I have zero issues but I am using components from just one company, everything is from Emotiva and using xlr's and is dead silent.
_________________________
DOG is GOD spelled backwards.
What others think of me is none of my business.
M80 V3 MY GLOSS Cherry

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#415664 - 11/28/15 03:00 PM Re: What to do with a problem called Grounding [Re: MatManhasgone]
MatManhasgone Offline
aficionado

Registered: 05/06/14
Posts: 987
Loc: Lost in the great wide yonder
The most frustrating side to this is the room is new custom built. The power plugs are dedicated lines in the same electrical box. The ground wires for the outlets are all twist bound together so they all share the shortest path to a true ground. The cable runs are the same length (< 10' long). All going to a dedicated breaker for each of them.

There is NO cable TV box inside the whole house. How I would love to have just another 10k to put towards getting newer amps and a newer pre-amp but it just aint going to happen.
_________________________
Anthem: AVM60
Axiom: ADA1000, LFR1100, VP180, QS8, EP500, M3, M3comp
AudioSource: Amp One/A

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#415665 - 11/28/15 03:02 PM Re: What to do with a problem called Grounding [Re: MatManhasgone]
MatManhasgone Offline
aficionado

Registered: 05/06/14
Posts: 987
Loc: Lost in the great wide yonder
I was about to build my custom rack for the amps etc.. but thinking now if there are parts that are going to need to change, then why am I spending time to build something that might be the wrong size when it is all done?
_________________________
Anthem: AVM60
Axiom: ADA1000, LFR1100, VP180, QS8, EP500, M3, M3comp
AudioSource: Amp One/A

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#415667 - 11/28/15 03:24 PM Re: What to do with a problem called Grounding [Re: MatManhasgone]
brendo Offline
devotee

Registered: 10/14/14
Posts: 364
Loc: West coast Canada
I had a major ground loop with my M80 through my power amp.
Have a monster power with ground loop isolator hooked my cable coaxial through the circuit and totally gone. when the coaxial comes loose ground loop returns tighten and good to go.
I'm certain the Axiom quality and performance would kill my monster power centers loop isolator.
Hopefully it's something as easy, try contacting your cable provider they may be able to help, though here in Vancouver when I called to ask Shaw for help they claimed they didn't know what I was talking about.
{DUH what's a ground loop}and that was when I added my HD cable box. You kind of have to let them know you know more of these tech issues than they do!!!

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#415668 - 11/28/15 03:27 PM Re: What to do with a problem called Grounding [Re: MatManhasgone]
Dundas Offline
old hand

Registered: 03/02/08
Posts: 83
Loc: Hamilton
A couple of suggestions:
The Emotiva CMX - http://hometheaterhifi.com/editorial/blogs/little-things-trouble-hum/

The Ebtech Hum Eliminators - http://www.ebtechaudio.com/hedes.html

Do you still have hum if you take the DSP out of the signal chain? If the hum does go away using an Ebtech HumX with the DSP should help.

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#415669 - 11/28/15 03:30 PM Re: What to do with a problem called Grounding [Re: MatManhasgone]
Gr8_White_North Offline
connoisseur

Registered: 07/12/09
Posts: 2232
Loc: Whitehorse YT
use a two prong extension cord to lift the ground to see if that helps.
_________________________
DOG is GOD spelled backwards.
What others think of me is none of my business.
M80 V3 MY GLOSS Cherry

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#415670 - 11/28/15 03:31 PM Re: What to do with a problem called Grounding [Re: MatManhasgone]
exlabdriver Offline
connoisseur

Registered: 09/07/11
Posts: 1727
Shaw knows full well about it - they just won't admit it unless you are very persistent. From what I've heard, they have ground isolation gizmos but they don't normally give them out for some reason.

I had hum problems in the past & after much experimentation & troubleshooting, it indeed was Shaw's cable installation in my house...

TAM

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#415673 - 11/28/15 06:56 PM Re: What to do with a problem called Grounding [Re: MatManhasgone]
MatManhasgone Offline
aficionado

Registered: 05/06/14
Posts: 987
Loc: Lost in the great wide yonder
A few points.

I do not have CABLE TV.

The power cords from all my equipment are all like a C13 plug without the ground pin. So there is zero value with using some ground cheater plug as the amp and pre-amp don't even use the ground pin on a plug at all.


I guess I am coming to the realization that even though the MCA5ii is a fantastic sounding amp, it just doesn't play nicely with the Marantz pre-amp. It works fine with my old Pioneer receiver.

I will just have to see if I can re-sell the unit to recoup the $1000 I put into buying it, and then put that money towards something other. The problem is that the speakers are all 4ohm and that puts you into a certain bracket of amp that you can buy.
_________________________
Anthem: AVM60
Axiom: ADA1000, LFR1100, VP180, QS8, EP500, M3, M3comp
AudioSource: Amp One/A

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#415674 - 11/28/15 07:24 PM Re: What to do with a problem called Grounding [Re: MatManhasgone]
Gr8_White_North Offline
connoisseur

Registered: 07/12/09
Posts: 2232
Loc: Whitehorse YT
There just isn't enough money for all the toys. I was fortunate enough to have gotten my amps when our dollar was in better shape. Don't feel bad the tv I want is 8Grand ,shame plasma's had to go away. I can barely stand to watch a LED tv.
_________________________
DOG is GOD spelled backwards.
What others think of me is none of my business.
M80 V3 MY GLOSS Cherry

Top
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