Axiom Home Page Forums General Discussion Home Theater New Member Here with a Question About Upgrading

I just went through this. Bought that onkyo system to complement a front projector video setup. quickly got upgrade fever. Started with M22's, then VP150, then QS4's, then one QS8 for the rear center. This has turned into a wonderful improvement for me, and actually it keeps growing on you. The onkyo receiver is still just fine, although it's just a matter of time until the fever hits there as well. I decided to do the sub last, so that's my next thing. I did add some bass shakers as well. Very happy. I'm nowhere near an expert but my guess would be that SVS sub would be awesome with the M22 and VP center. But you know, for me, with that darn bug, it's only a matter of time until those M60's (or M80) get ordered... the wife has been talking about moving to a bigger house...

Man, this work stuff is REALLY getting in the way. Rick - looks like everyone has you in tow, but watch out for Tom, he'll pull you under. He did mention "wet willies" and I won't get near that one. I made an unfortunatre mistake once in a similar vein when I rented the DVD titled "Free Willy" thinking it was an adult movie. Disappointing.

After reading Tom's input today, I will need to try and get whatever he is smoking!

You are my favorite 2 people in one - 1) spending lots of money on HT and 2) asking for help to do it!

It's all right here in front of you on this thread:
1) Dump or replace the HTIB

2) M22s or M60s (preferered) for the fronts. In fact - get the M60s (sorry, just experienced a testosterone rush) Think about the upgradeitis you are going through now, you don't want to keep going through it over and over. Looks like you might have some flexibility to move the SVS (I've got my 20-39 behind a chair). You don't really want to put the M22s in the ent. center anyhow, so they would need to be on the floor stands as spiff points out.

3) VP150 for the center, but the VP100 is excellent if you want to save a buck or apply the $$ to the QS8s.

4) QS4s are good, QS8s are burlier. Save the bucks & get the QS8s.

Looks like you have the makings of a plan. Hope all of the input was helpful.

Man you guys are killing me!..LOL

Decisions, decisions, decisions..

Ray, I completely understand where you are coming from regarding your comment about the "upgradeitis". I know.. buy what I "really" want and I won't have to go thru this again a year from now.

Tom..You are correct about the size of the "hole" where my current fronts are located. There is a lip of molding on the front of the cabinet but the actual space left to right inside is 20" so the M22's would fit but it would a bear to get it in there. I would probably have to remove the back to get it to fit. I don't like that idea so I am back to finding a way to make "something" work on the sides like you all have mentioned.

Ray.. I have an "L" sectional on the opposite wall and I could put the sub behind it in the corner but this would hide my "water heater" as Tom called it and I would be afraid it would loose a lot being behind the sectional plus my wife has this "spray of lights" behind there but I could ask her nice (ok beg will be more like it) if she could move it.
Here is a shot of the corner I mentioned..

http://www.stampcometal.com/files/livingroombackcorner.jpg

Sitting in the area beside the endtable you are facing the TV so the sub would be to your left. I think I would loose a lot of the SVS potential as I feel it would "soak" into the couch. Any thoughts there?

Here is what I have to work with to the left and right of the TV. (Forgive the crappy pics, just grabbed my camera and shot)

Left

http://www.stampcometal.com/files/tvleft.jpg

Right

http://www.stampcometal.com/files/tvright.jpg

If I went with the M22's and left my SVS where it is I could mount a shelf to the left/right side of each cabinet to put them on to get them out of the cabinet. If I considered the M60's then the sub would have to move for the left one to be placed. The "cute little table thing" could be moved for the right one though.

One other thing... here is the specs on my old Onkyo TX-DS747

Stereo Mode: 90 watts/channel into 8 ohms at 0.08% THD, 20-20kHz
Surround Mode: 80 watts x 3 plus 40 x 2 watts (surround)

That's a little weak for the surrounds..Won't that be too little a power for either the 4's or 8's?

The unit that came with the HTIB at least has 100 watts/channel and I know this will work fine.

Ray I wish I had "lots of money" as you mentioned but just trying to get the best purchase without going overboard. If I get the "whole enchilada" M60,150 and 8's I won't be able to get a new receiver until much later..

So here I am back at your all's mercy..

Thanks guys for a great forum!
You help (and humor) is great

Rick

Ok....how about this....
Is that door to the right of the TV a closet or a door to another well used room? If it's a closet, move the SVS to the right of the closet. You'd still be able to open the door most of the way - plus you'd excite more room modes with the SVS in the corner (could be good, could be bad).

Then get either M22 + stands or M60's and place them forward of the plane of the TV. This'll help imaging loads. The left speaker can be in the place where the SVS was.


Optional - and a stretch - ditch 1/2 of the "entertainment center" to buy yourself some speaker room. This would also require you taking the "roof" off of the entertainment center which would also remove the cavity that your center channel is in and may buy you some imaging. Keep your audio equipment in the left 1/2.


Optional - expensive - If that's not an RPTV that you have and you can put the TV on another stand, get one that has space for your receiver/DVD player and ditch the entertainment center all together. Looks like the ET Center is limiting your options...but if it's gotta stay, it's gotta stay. I just ditched a HUGE entertainment center with a 36" TV into it and went to an infocus X1 projector. You wouldn't believe how much the room opened up. Good feng shui.
Tilt your center channel down towards your listening position and, if possible, position it a little over the lip of the front of the TV. Should open up the CC a little bit.


Also fun for upgradeitis - and based on my personal experience, you could also consider a Behringer Feedback Destroyer (parametric equalizer) for your SVS. It should make your SVS sound like you thought it would sound. If you equalize your speakers with a Radio Shack SPL meter and you've set your sub to the same level as your other speakers, you've essentially set your sub to the largest peak/excited room mode of the sub and you may be missing out on a whole bunch of frequencies as a result. I've sunk WAY too much time into researching and testing this recently and have gone so far as to getting ETF5 and TrueRTA on my laptop with a Behringer mic as input. I'm most interested in the bass equalization.


The sum of it all is that rarely do looks/aesthetics and quality speaker placement go together....:)

Your TV is too big. Get a smaller one and then your speakers will fit.

(Well, some jealous person had to say it!)

Andrew,

Yes the door to the right is a coat closet but there isn't but about 10" from the wall to where the door frame starts. Guess I could move it over there just to see how it would perform. I can hear my wife now.." You are gonna move it where?"..LOL

I don't want to loose any of my cabinet as I like the way it "frames" the TV.

It is an RPTV and a one piece set.

Guess I will just have to decide on what I want to buy and if I can adjust everything around to fit..

Thanks for all the feedback.

Rick

Hee hee hee. Rick doesn't know about the Newbie Audio Consulting Fee for Alleviating Room Technicalities (NACFART).

Oh heck, was I speaking out loud?

Anyway, first, don't worry about the amp power. The 747 has got way more than enough to crush your eardrums into puddles of molten goo. It is *rated* differently than the HTIB. You know, there are three kinds of lies - Lies, Damn Lies and Statistics? The 747 power is rated full spectrum (20-20k Hz), whereas the HTIB box is rated at 1k Hz. Apples and Oranges. Actually, more like Tangelos and Watermelons. No worries about having enough power to drive even the 6 ohm QS8's with that thing.

I would not under any circumstances try to wedge M22's into that entertainment center. Well, maybe if you paid me. Okay, if I was all beered up and you dared me. Okay, there are lots of circumstances in which *I* might do it, but YOU should not because you have to live with the consequences.

I'd try moving the sub to another corner like the one behind the couch. Can it peacefully coexist with the light or are we talking about missiles in Cuba here?

My uninformed, dirt-cheap opinion is that having the sub over there would probably not seriously degrade its performance. It'll still thump you good.

I'd resist the urge to "mount shelves" on the outside of your EC and go with stands or floorstanders. Who am I kidding? I haven't resisted an urge in quite some time.

"back at our mercy". The endless possibilities.

Order up already! If you call Axiom in the morning, I'll bet you'd have your new speakers on Monday.

This is why I value Pete's posts. His clarity of logic and ability to cut through it all to articulate the most effective solution is just stunning!!!!

Rick, I've got to assume you have already considered the basic and most effective problem solver - Sell the wife. Having said that, do you have an opportunity to pull the sectional far enough away from the wall to get the SVS back (OK, WITH the lights)? If not, your idea of the SVS around the L corner might just work.. The LFE isn't directional per se, it just needs a good place to bounce from (damn, I love this technical stuff).

If you can find a place for the SVS, it looks like the M60s would just fit, especially since you will want them 1-2 feet away from the wall. Honestly, you have almost the same problem hanging the M22's in that space. Does the door on the left side need to open / close or can you just remove it?

Let's keep working it. I don't think bigjohn is gonna be much help on this one, he's sitting at the end of his driveway with a Lone Star waiting for the Fed Ex truck.

Oh, we should all hold hands and agree that stuffing the M22s into the recesses of a cabinet is not where we want to end up.

I want to end up with bigjohn down at the end of the driveway with a Lone Star. Okay, a Celis or a Shiner. But having a beer with bigjohn in Texas sounds like a good place to end up.

Is it time to hijack this thread yet?

Ok, let's just meet at Rick's house and bigjohn will bring the beer & BBQ.