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#418245 - 03/29/16 06:28 PM Advised on in-ceiling speakers
embeleco Offline
hobbyist

Registered: 12/03/09
Posts: 23
Hi. I'm currently using 4 M3s bookshelf on the ceiling. Two of them configured as front height pointing towards listening position. The other two as top middle for the 4 to be used for ATMOS, etc. I'm looking into replacing them for 4 M3 in-ceiling speakers.. as I can't pointing them to the listening position.. they would be pointing down what will be the best config for them.. still Front Heights and Top Middle? I can't do Top Front and Top Middle in my current setup Denon AVR-5200

Any advise.
-Jose
_________________________
M60v1 w/2xUPA-1,VP160,QS8v1,4xM3(Ceiling),1xHSU STF2,DenonX5200,PS4,XboxONE"

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#418251 - 03/30/16 12:15 AM Re: Advised on in-ceiling speakers [Re: embeleco]
nickbuol Offline
axiomite

Registered: 09/16/04
Posts: 5319
Loc: Marion, IA
I just put up 4 "on-wall" M3s for Atmos/DTS:X literally last night. I went for "scientific accuracy" over aesthetics otherwise I too would have looked closer at in-ceiling speakers... Well, technically I DID look hard at in-ceiling speakers, but with my soundproofing for my ceiling, there wasn't enough room between hat-channel and ceiling joists to make them fit, so they were out.

One note, the tweeters on the in-ceiling M3s ARE aimable, so that should help in your situation a little bit, not enough for front heights though...

I have a question for you. How many rows of seats do you have?

If you have more than 1 row of seats, check this out:
Dolby Atmos: Dispersion Requirements for Ceiling Speakers

Nyal is really, REALLY good at what he does with acoustics and speaker placements. As he mentions, there are changes coming to official Atmos documents later this year for new recommendations of placement locations, and Nyal has been sharing those locations based off of 2 rows of seats, and this document is what I based my speaker choice and location off of.

If you went with in-ceiling speakers, unfortunately, putting them at the front height location, even with aimable tweeters, will still most likely be pointing sound towards the ground in front of your seats, which won't be very good.
Top Front and Top Middle would have been better, but if your receiver can't do it, then you can't do it.

What about keeping regular M3s in the front height spot, and a pair of in-ceiling speakers to replace the other ones?
_________________________
http://ht.buol.us
2-M60s, VP180, 8-M3s, SVS 20-39PCi, DIY Sub, 8-Shakers, JVC RS45, Anthem MRX-1120

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#418262 - 03/30/16 02:42 PM Re: Advised on in-ceiling speakers [Re: nickbuol]
Dundas Online   content
old hand

Registered: 03/02/08
Posts: 83
Loc: Hamilton
Originally Posted By nickbuol

One note, the tweeters on the in-ceiling M3s ARE aimable


Where did you find that information? I had all but ruled out the in-ceiling M3s for Atmos speakers because of this issue.
The web page for the in-ceiling M3s is terrible!
http://axiomaudio.com/m3-in-ceiling-speakers#t-3

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#418264 - 03/30/16 03:32 PM Re: Advised on in-ceiling speakers [Re: embeleco]
nickbuol Offline
axiomite

Registered: 09/16/04
Posts: 5319
Loc: Marion, IA
I heard it in an email right from Debbie at Axiom. I didn't think that they were aimable either, but when I asked about making the in-ceiling M3s have aimable tweeters in the future, she told me that they already were.

Here is a copy/paste of the emails from 02/26/2016....

Originally Posted By nickbuol
From: nickbuol
Sent: February-26-16 2:22 PM
To: debbie@axiomaudio.com
Subject: Re: Axiom Audio Response to Your Request


... One other quick question, any plans to make the in-ceiling M3s at an angle or at least an adjustable tweeter? ...



and the response form Debbie...

Originally Posted By Debbie Swinton
From: debbie@axiomaudio.com
To: nickbuol
Subject: RE: Axiom Audio Response to Your Request
Date: Fri, 26 Feb 2016 14:47:55 -0500

Hi Nick,

Our current M3 In-Ceiling speakers do have an adjustable tweeter. The very first version didn’t.

Kind regards,


Debbie Swinton
Axiom Audio
(705) 635-2222 ext.228 or
888-352-9466 Mon - Fri 10am - 5pm EST
www.axiomaudio.com



_________________________
http://ht.buol.us
2-M60s, VP180, 8-M3s, SVS 20-39PCi, DIY Sub, 8-Shakers, JVC RS45, Anthem MRX-1120

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#418266 - 03/30/16 04:23 PM Re: Advised on in-ceiling speakers [Re: embeleco]
embeleco Offline
hobbyist

Registered: 12/03/09
Posts: 23
Thanks for the info nick. For now I only have 1 row of seats.... I didn't went with the on-wall M3s because I already had the bookshelf version of them available. Right now the FH are aimed at the MLP position.. something that probably I can't do with the in-ceiling that well. The Top Middle are almost in top of the MLP so that one is aiming almost straight down. As they are bookshelf they look huge in the ceiling so that is why I was looking at maybe in-ceiling speakers...but you're right accuracy vs aesthetics
_________________________
M60v1 w/2xUPA-1,VP160,QS8v1,4xM3(Ceiling),1xHSU STF2,DenonX5200,PS4,XboxONE"

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#418269 - 03/30/16 06:38 PM Re: Advised on in-ceiling speakers [Re: embeleco]
nickbuol Offline
axiomite

Registered: 09/16/04
Posts: 5319
Loc: Marion, IA
I went with on-wall M3s and then used Axiom Full Metal Brackets for the fronts (that needed more angle) and just made a small "wedge" out of a 2x4 for the rears since they didn't need as strong of an angle. Just remove the woofer, and use screws to attach the the wedge (once the wedge is attached to the ceiling of course)...

The rears are fairly low profile this way.

Just a thought.
_________________________
http://ht.buol.us
2-M60s, VP180, 8-M3s, SVS 20-39PCi, DIY Sub, 8-Shakers, JVC RS45, Anthem MRX-1120

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#421028 - 11/11/16 02:38 PM Re: Advised on in-ceiling speakers [Re: nickbuol]
Newf Offline
aficionado

Registered: 04/14/05
Posts: 757
Loc: NL
Originally Posted By nickbuol
I heard it in an email right from Debbie at Axiom. I didn't think that they were aimable either, but when I asked about making the in-ceiling M3s have aimable tweeters in the future, she told me that they already were.

Here is a copy/paste of the emails from 02/26/2016....

Originally Posted By nickbuol
From: nickbuol
Sent: February-26-16 2:22 PM
To: debbie@axiomaudio.com
Subject: Re: Axiom Audio Response to Your Request


... One other quick question, any plans to make the in-ceiling M3s at an angle or at least an adjustable tweeter? ...



and the response form Debbie...

Originally Posted By Debbie Swinton
From: debbie@axiomaudio.com
To: nickbuol
Subject: RE: Axiom Audio Response to Your Request
Date: Fri, 26 Feb 2016 14:47:55 -0500

Hi Nick,

Our current M3 In-Ceiling speakers do have an adjustable tweeter. The very first version didn’t.

Kind regards,


Debbie Swinton
Axiom Audio
(705) 635-2222 ext.228 or
888-352-9466 Mon - Fri 10am - 5pm EST
www.axiomaudio.com





I knew I should have waited. My biggest complaint of the M3 in ceilings is the lack of adjustble tweeter. I've been away from here for a while, I didn't realize they upgraded them. @#$@#$%
_________________________
2xAA
M80/VP150/VP160/QS8
4xM3/M22OW/M2OW/VP150OW/4xM3IC/4xM3OW
EP500/800/HSU VTF3/SVS PB2k/SB2k/SB-12

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#421033 - 11/12/16 04:18 AM Re: Advised on in-ceiling speakers [Re: Newf]
Ian Offline
President
connoisseur

Registered: 03/13/01
Posts: 1146
Hi Newf,

We did incorporate an articulating tweeter. It is really cool how it works too. It is a set of gimbals, not an eyeball socket, so the tweeter is never partially pointed into a socket. I know you are thinking of getting an AxiomAir N3 soon; we could always do an upgrade to your in-ceiling at the same time since we would be making a shipment out to The Rock anyway.
_________________________
Ian Colquhoun
President & Chief Engineer

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#421085 - 11/15/16 09:47 PM Re: Advised on in-ceiling speakers [Re: embeleco]
Newf Offline
aficionado

Registered: 04/14/05
Posts: 757
Loc: NL
IAN, could you email me exactly how that would work?

steves@nf.sympatico.ca
_________________________
2xAA
M80/VP150/VP160/QS8
4xM3/M22OW/M2OW/VP150OW/4xM3IC/4xM3OW
EP500/800/HSU VTF3/SVS PB2k/SB2k/SB-12

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#421086 - 11/15/16 09:52 PM Re: Advised on in-ceiling speakers [Re: Ian]
Newf Offline
aficionado

Registered: 04/14/05
Posts: 757
Loc: NL
Originally Posted By Ian
Hi Newf,

We did incorporate an articulating tweeter. It is really cool how it works too. It is a set of gimbals, not an eyeball socket, so the tweeter is never partially pointed into a socket. I know you are thinking of getting an AxiomAir N3 soon; we could always do an upgrade to your in-ceiling at the same time since we would be making a shipment out to The Rock anyway.


See above post. I might be interested. Assuming I have money left, just ordered ep500/m3's for another room, now thinking axiomair....so Santa's pockets getting lighter.
_________________________
2xAA
M80/VP150/VP160/QS8
4xM3/M22OW/M2OW/VP150OW/4xM3IC/4xM3OW
EP500/800/HSU VTF3/SVS PB2k/SB2k/SB-12

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