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#418559 - 04/12/16 09:41 PM Re: For those of you with external amps - floor noise [Re: spiroh]
2x6spds Offline
connoisseur

Registered: 03/16/02
Posts: 3186
Loc: CA, USA
Mojo, the M504 is a wonderful beast, but the Yamaha M80 is a much more powerful Beast, but first 30 watts pure class A, stable at 2 ohms.

250 wpc continuous into 8 ohms 380 wpc dynamic/8 ohm, 850 wpc dynamic/2 ohms, bandwidth 10 Hz - 100 KHz 0.03% THD. A MONSTER


Edited by 2x6spds (04/12/16 09:50 PM)
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#418568 - 04/13/16 01:01 PM Re: For those of you with external amps - floor noise [Re: spiroh]
alan Offline

connoisseur

Registered: 01/29/02
Posts: 3267
Loc: Toronto/New York/parry Sound
Spiroh, there are no practical benefits to using XLR outputs in a domestic environment unless your living space is besieged by local RF and power-line interference. There is no improvement in fidelity or sound quality with XLR connectors -- only suppression of possible interference and hum.

XLR connections were designed for broadcasting, sound reinforcement, and studio applications for long microphone cable runs and equipment interconnection, where cables are run hundreds of feet and may cross power supply cables from remote generator trucks. In the vast majority of home applications, they are not necessary. Most were added as an up-market sales ploy to lure gullible audiophiles into buying expensive gear that appears "professional".

And 2X6, despite your enthusiasm for vacuum-tube distortion generators, it makes as much sense to use tube amplifiers in modern-day high-fidelity systems as it would be to use a tube-operated computer or HDTV set (the former would fill an entire room with heat-generating electronics requiring its own dedicated cooling system).

Of course, many rock guitarists like the sound of vacuum-tube distortion layered over their guitar's output, but that's a different discussion.

Regards,
Alan
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#418570 - 04/13/16 03:08 PM Re: For those of you with external amps - floor noise [Re: spiroh]
2x6spds Offline
connoisseur

Registered: 03/16/02
Posts: 3186
Loc: CA, USA
It's one thing to be opinionated, Alan, it's another to be arrogant and contemptuous. I have several solid state amplifiers, which I like. Kenwood KA9100, Yamaha M80, Integra M504, Odyssey Khartago, Anthem PVA, They have their strong points. I've used them all with Axiom speakers and various sources (Sony ES CDPs, Ah! Njoe Tjoeb, Marantz NS, MMF 7.1 turntable). I have an Antique Sound Labs MG S1 15dt, 5 wpc SET integrated tube amp. (tested at 8wpc with 6550 tubes.)

My best sounding system, is the tube distortion generator. We have a southern California jazz/audio group. My opinion as to the superiority of this tube amp to the others is shared by most of the others in our group. That is not to put down solid state, but to make the case, based on real world experience, that the tube amp simply reproduces music that many observers conclude sounds more life like.

I particularly like playing Mussorsgky's Pictures from an Exhibition, Royal Philharmonic Orchestra, Rene Leibowitz conducting, and watching the impact of the stunning attack of the French Horns on the listeners. Female vocals, are simply, sweeter, and more life-like. I find the music more involving.

Now, I know your tastes are very elevated, and it must be difficult for you to suffer those who have not attained your level of audio snobbery. That was made apparent to me when I sent you a CD of Ed Gerhard's music as I thought some of the cuts showed off Axiom speakers very favorably. When I did not hear from you I contacted you and asked whether you had received the CD. You informed me that you had but the music was not to your taste.

I got your measure then, Alan. Anyway, I like my heat producing distortion generator for music reproduction. I prefer solid state for my computers.

Enjoy the music.

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#418571 - 04/13/16 03:22 PM Re: For those of you with external amps - floor noise [Re: 2x6spds]
pmbuko Offline
shareholder in the making

Registered: 04/02/03
Posts: 16437
Loc: Ben Lomond, California
That was predictable.
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#418572 - 04/13/16 03:58 PM Re: For those of you with external amps - floor noise [Re: 2x6spds]
MarkSJohnson Offline
shareholder in the making

Registered: 09/27/04
Posts: 11445
Loc: Central NH
Originally Posted By 2x6spds
Oh, my 5 wpc distortion generator (thanks Alan you treasure you)

You brought it up and started it, 2X6.
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#418573 - 04/13/16 04:11 PM Re: For those of you with external amps - floor noise [Re: spiroh]
2x6spds Offline
connoisseur

Registered: 03/16/02
Posts: 3186
Loc: CA, USA
Hi Mark, that sounded like Donald Trump!

No offense intended.
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#418574 - 04/13/16 05:32 PM Re: For those of you with external amps - floor noise [Re: 2x6spds]
BobKay Offline
connoisseur

Registered: 03/23/10
Posts: 3596
Loc: Massachusetts Badlands
Wow! What with the month I've been having, I had to check the post dates to be sure I was in the present.

See, newbs, this is what it used to be like around here, sometimes daily. Only back then, ten people would have been in this fray by now. The joust is dead. Long live medieval re-enactments!

Peter may be correct to find it predictable, but I find the familiarity of it to be somehow nostalgic. Yes, I do have an appointment before the week is out.
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#418576 - 04/13/16 05:57 PM Re: For those of you with external amps - floor noise [Re: spiroh]
Mojo Offline
axiomite

Registered: 01/21/07
Posts: 5948
One of these days I have to find some tube gear and hook it up to my M80s and Dreamcatchers. I'd really like to hear what it sounds like. Silly me...I grew up with a ton of tube amps in high school and took them for granted. I had a chance to take so many home. I think many of them were just thrown in the garbage frown.
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#418578 - 04/13/16 06:26 PM Re: For those of you with external amps - floor noise [Re: Mojo]
craigsub Offline
connoisseur

Registered: 12/15/03
Posts: 1726
2x6 ... It is ok for you to like the tube sound. Your amplifier generates about a 6% THD at its rated power, which translates into a distortion floor of about -24 dB, which is quite audible in the all important midrange portion of the musical spectrum (200-2000 Hz).

As an example, in this range, at 90 dB at a listening position, a pair of M80's will have a distortion floor of about -48 dB, compared to your amp's floor of -24 dB.

A good solid state amp will have a distortion floor of about -60 to -80 dB, depending on the amp - well below that of the speaker, and inaudible.

At this -24 dB level, your tube amp will be adding typically 2nd harmonic distortion, which will be quite audible. It's also, for many listeners, quite pleasant - it is that "warmth" people will tube amps discuss.

Alan's description of the amp being a "distortion generator" may be abrupt in its delivery, but it is quite accurate.
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#418579 - 04/13/16 06:57 PM Re: For those of you with external amps - floor noise [Re: MarkSJohnson]
spiroh Offline
veteran

Registered: 01/06/05
Posts: 127
Loc: Chicago, IL
Originally Posted By MarkSJohnson
Originally Posted By 2x6spds
Oh, my 5 wpc distortion generator (thanks Alan you treasure you)

You brought it up and started it, 2X6.

That entire post was pure arrogance so it is interesting that he's calling out people for their perceived arrogance. He must be one of the very few who has zero additional noise when using external amps. Lucky him.

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