Axiom Home Page Forums General Discussion Home Theater Anthem 520/720 Denon X4200?

I currently own the RXA-1000 considering replacing it with the 520/720 or the X4200...wondering for both music & movies would it(520/720/4200) outperform my RXA-1000 by a noticeable difference especially for music??...I'm using Axiom M80v3(which I'm enjoying alot!!!) speakers as mains.. VP150 as my center...the Yamaha seems to be fine with the M80's has no problem driving them so the Anthem/Denon shouldn't either? I never use the dsp modes that the Yamaha has looking to improve the sound quality more then "bells & Whistles.Thanks for any help!

Bruce, good to hear that you're enjoying your new M80 refurbs. As to the amplifier changes that you're considering, you should expect no "noticeable difference" in the basic amplified sound with any of these receivers. As with all well-designed modern units, when operated within their designed power limits, noise and distortion are inaudibly low and frequency response is audibly flat across the spectrum. The rating on your RX-A1000 is 105 watts/channel and the others vary between 80 watts(Anthem 520)and 125 watts(Denon X4200). This is only about a 2dB difference in maximum output level and it's unlikely to be significant when listening.

One difference that may affect the sound quality that you experience is the difference in room correction processing. Yamaha uses its YPAO, while Anthem uses ARC(Anthem Room Correction)and the X4200 has the highest grade Audyssey MultEQ XT32. While reports vary, ARC and MultEQ XT32 are generally viewed as superior. So, it's this factor which may be significant, rather than any inherent audible differences in the amplifiers in these receivers.

I have owned Denon since the beginning ( Of my time ) 900, 1802, 3802, 3804, 3808. I then had a lightening strike and took out the reciever amongst others. They replaced it with a Pioneer Elite, that didn't stay long, Marantz was short lived. I got a Anthem 500 and things changed. This out performed them all, and I love ARC.
Do not let the 80w to 125 w fool you either. The Anthem sounds better to me. I have M80v3 speakers also.
My next purchase is either MCA720 or AVM60

I have not used a Denon processor so I can't comment on how they sound. I had my stereo temporarily setup in the front sitting room of my house while I made my own dedicated music/media room in the basement. After moving down, I found that the sound i was getting was not as good with a reduced sound stage and limited dynamics. Turns out that the dimensions of a room does play a big part in what you hear.

I was using a Pioneer that was exchanged for a Yamaha, then went to a Marantz. Throw in there an Integra for a week, trying different external amps to see if that would help. Still just didn't sound right.

I was convinced as the last ditch effort that Anthem has a great unit and their ARC could do wonders so I bought it.

Out of the box with no room correction at all and the sound improvement was clearly noticeable. I have improved the sound again without even applying the room correction just using the ARC software to better understand what is going on for each speaker and how just repositioning them in the room effects their sound.

I did purchase the AVR-60 that is a pre-amp, but believe that the MRX-720 has all the internals that my pre-amp has for sound and does the Atmos if you want better movie sound.

JohnK might be right on paper that "if" they are well-designed then there should be little to no difference. My ears have told me otherwise. Anthem with their current model stripped out many of the bells and whistles that honestly I have never used. I lost Apple AirPlay but for $70 could add it by hooking up an AppleTV. I just wanted good sound and finally found it.

I went from an Onkyo with Audyssey XT32 to an Anthem MRX-1120 with ARC.

Audyssey seemed to yield wildly different results every time I ran it, even when being really accurate with mic placement consistency, etc. Some times I liked it, some times I would just start over after getting a "blah" sound correction. It was good and I gave it a lot of favorable feedback, but when I went to ARC.... WOOOOOW. So much better. More impact, more clarity, just nice clean sound. That is both with and without Atmos speakers.

Shaddup. You guys are going to make me want to spend money.

Believe your ears, not spec sheets, authoritative pronouncements to the contrary notwithstanding.

thanks for the replies so far it is looking like the Anthem is the front runner & the feed back confirms it so far...trying to get as close to "separates" as possible without spending crazy amounts of $$$$.Again thanks so far for the input!!!

Curiosity got the better of me, dangit.... That 1120 looks like a dandy. Must resist.

My Denon 4311 has been working well, with no problems yet. I still have a 3808 in another room, and haven't had any problems with it either.

What I would like to find, is an AVR that would include a variety of video aspect ratios, for use with anamorphic lenses. That way I could get rid of a stand alone video processor. I don't see that happening though. Not enough demand.

I'd also like to see an audio processor that had two separate center channel outputs, for use of two center speakers; one over and one over a screen.

Now that you posted that your Denons are doing fine. you can expect both to explode/implode or simply catch fire, if there's nostalgia involved.

I see an Anthem in your future!

Have you ever considered an AV Receiver that has pre-outs? Or am i just missing something?

Run the lower speaker off the built in amp, and run the upper speaker off the pre-out with it's own amp. What is the issue.

No way to level match is the issue.

Mark, shush.

Choose the amp that lets you. I have an Amp/One A that has level controls on the front. I know that Crown does, and some Rotel amps do as well.

Get an SPL meter and hook up the on board center channel and take a measurement. Then unhook it and hook up the external amp center. Adjust the amp level so the the SPL measurement is the same as what you got for the onboard. Bob's your uncle.

You're missing the point. There would be no need for these work arounds, if an AVR or Pre would have two center channels. Then you could level match, apply delay times, and room correction - correctly. I was running an over/under center before. A Y-connection into two amps. Another workaround, that worked, but not perfectly. And, you need two identical centers with any of the work arounds.

A follow up ? regarding Atmos itself..which speaker modules are the best choice to put on top of my 80's as using ceiling installed speakers are a no go looking at trying a simple 5.1.2 set-up first...is axiom going to build a add on module ?Thanks!!

I would not think of putting upward reflective sound as an option. On the Anthem unit, you can define the Atmos speakers as being in ceiling, height or dolby. if putting speakers into the ceiling is not going to work, then I would look to the second option and install height speakers.

This is the option that I am going to be using. (once I get my equipment cabinet made).

I don't think Axiom would produce the reflective type.
Being more of an audiophile brand reflections are a big no no, that's the reason they have the in walls.

Plus more of the add on modules are for the HTIB crowd who haven't grown out of the Boombox sound those systems produce.

Axiom is missing out on an area of the market if that is their positon. Plenty of people would like to try Atmos without the inherent difficulties associated with ceiling speakers. Also many people rent and can not cut holes in their ceiling. It would be nice to have an Axiom speaker that matches with the rest of the speakers I now own. Lucky for me I can build my own modules but many can not. It would be easy for axiom to build a small module that fit on top of the M80's etc and use the driver from the in ceiling speakers. BTW sound effects hardly need to be audiophile quality.

Richard

It's true, the Atmos market is enormous. <eye roll>

I have full 7.2.4 Atmos and I don't have holes in my ceiling, and I definitely have better sound from the overheads that reflective models. Reflective speakers tend to fall into 2 camps... Cheap "crap", and expensive "decent" sound. This is where people 1) don't want to invest into the sound format enough to make other changes and thus don't want to spend anything on it, or 2) have money to throw at the problem, even though it doesn't yield the ideal sound.

There seems to be a market in the middle that has a void, but even so, that is probably where a bulk of the "enthusiast" are at, and they are making efforts to get true overhead sound, and are going with in-ceiling or on-ceiling speakers.

So it is a distinct market oddity for sure, but I don't ever see Axiom jumping into that, nor do I fault them for it. They are not in the cheap "crap" or the expensive "decent" market. They do offer an enthusiast level in-ceiling option and have other options that work for on-ceiling as well.

As for sound effect quality, Atmos (and DTS:X) are more than just "sound effects." In order to do the proper 3D sound imaging in a room, you need the speakers to be as close as possible in make and model (timbre) to do it correctly. I mean, imagine trying to pan a sound between a front M80 and an overhead Bose cube (extreme example, I know) and you will not get smooth panning, let alone good ability to place that sound object anywhere in the theater space due to the lack of timbre matching and lack of pure output quality. Similarly, if you take a monopole front and try to use a highly diffused overhead reflected sound to do the same thing, it is definitely less precise sounding and cheaper options are borderline "muddy" sounding.

Now, we can't (although I am sure that someone, somewhere has) put M80s in all of the current 11 speaker locations, so there needs to be some compromise, but if one compromise is already a smaller overhead (or surround for that matter) speaker, then why add another compromise of either a low cost "crap" speaker or a non-monopole speaker that both will just muddy what Atmos can do?

If someone has no other choice, then so be it, but after too many compromises one would just come to the conclusion that "hmmmph... Atmos isn't really *that* great." When in actuality, their implementation is what is holding it back. AS for a reflected speaker on top of the M80s or other front towers, someone would need to blaze that trail on their own as I don't think that too many will be taking the time, effort, and even money, to try out difference modules as installing something else would end up just being easier than the experimentation.

PS. Yeah, I am a bit grumpy today too. I know it, and I am sure that it is coming across in all of my posts today. Maybe I just need a nap. My points still stand, but I probably could have been a little less "blunt" about them.

My Anthem AVM30 has Sub1 and Sub2 also pre-outs for Centre Ch 1 and Centre Ch 2. I would imagine the AVM60 that just came out has them also.

Nick, are you saying ARC is not giving you varying results each time you run it?

That's great, just great..... One more reason to buy one.

Don't suppose they can change video aspect ratios for 2.35 screen raitos?

I have run ARC twice with 2 different MRX-1120 receivers and the results were nearly identical. It found peaks and nulls in virtually the same spots and frequencies, and the corrected curves are pretty much spot on target. Plus it just sounds good and pretty much identical. There were times running Audyessey where I would run it once, not like the resulting sound, and run it again and get something better. All using the same (or as close as humanly possible) mic positions.

Sorry I just checked and the newer AVM60 and the MCA 720/1120 line don't have the dual Centre Channel option. Where my AVM30 has that option. However, whynot just connect a Y adapter.

I already covered why earlier.