Axiom Home Page Forums General Discussion Home Theater Projector upgrade

So I have calibrated all 7 picture modes on my new Panasonic AE8000U several times. I still cannot get a picture I'm happy with. Black levels are pixelated in many dark scenes and clarity on movies is average at best. Some have said my Seymour XD AT screen may be the cause. Regardless I'm not changing my AT screen set up. I will try to upgrade my projector. Any advice on projector selection is appreciated. Sub $5k please....

what is your sharpness set at?

I'll have to get back to you on that. It's a bit different for each picture mode I think. I used Disney WOW to calibrate all 7 picture modes.

What are you trying to watch?
HD content off TV/satellite is difficult to watch at the best of times...
Blurays really shine with the 8000.
The XD shouldn't be the issue, unless you're supper close to it.
I'd try a reset or have someone else take a look at it before upgrading.
I've had comments on the clarity even when I knew it could be /has been better.
XD and 8000 in use daily.
I ended up leaving mine on normal with the sharpness on +2, superwhite and iris off, bulb on low/Eco in a blacked out room.

Hi aarons,

Several projector manufacturers (Optoma, Acer, BenQ) will soon offer models using TI 4K DLP chip. Based on early European reviews they look pretty impressive. Some might be within your budget goal. Good luck !

I have a Seymour XD screen and don't have the issues being described. I'm surprised that someone is telling you that it is the problem. What you might have is a woven screen (which the XD is) and LCD panel (screendoor) issue creating moire.

Is your Seymour screen material at an angle or straight up and down/left and right?

A good number of projectors around the age of your Panasonic have moire issues if the screen material isn't tilted/angled. I know that when I was screen shopping around 2011, I was warned about making sure that I tilted my screen material as so many projectors would be negatively impacted by the previously mentioned vertical/horizontal orientation of the weave. When I got my JVC, I discovered that it was not prone to have this problem, but I was covered in case a future projector was.

So that is why I ask.

Otherwise, I can see zero logical reason why the screen would be the cause of "pixelation" in the dark areas.

For under $5000, I would jump on a faux-k JVC. Unless looking side-by-side (like I was able to do at CEDIA 2016) with a true 4K, the JVC lines have been doing faux-K right and you would never know by looking at the image that it wasn't true 4K. Problem then becomes that the Seymour XD screen is great to 1080p, but not beyond. So you would need a new screen again (Seymour does have a 4K screen, but that would be a bit of $$$.

Epson would be on my hit-list as well.

Panasonic has kind of gone the way of Sanyo (which was my first projector make)... they were really impressive and had a great performance/price value in their day. Now they aren't quite the unique value that they used to be. Heck, is there anything newer from Panasonic than the 8000? Seems like it is still a current model even though they first shipped back in 2012. I am not sure that Sanyo is even in the business any more.

Maybe a loose hdmi connection causing the pixelation?
Whats the throw distance and screen size?

i bought a camera for my car, forgot to pull the plastic protector off the lens . Turns out it was much clearer without the plastic on there, who da thunk ha ha.

Thanks I'll try that. However I've tried so many settings over the past month my confidence is about lost.

Its a long shot but I've read where others have forgot to remove the packing material from behind the lens and main body of the pj.
If you cant get it focused I'd try for warranty before spending on an upgrade.
True 1080p content is pretty sweet to watch when its set up.
And gaming is rediclous. The level of detail very impressive.

Thanks! Yes all packaging was removed. I'll try to return it with warranty but not interested in the same projector. Want to move up.

I have played with the idea of a PJ's and i found the best info is found at Projector Central and over at AVS Forum . Hopefully you can find something that satisfies you, things like this can be extremely frustrating and there is no point spending all the cash and no be able to relax and enjoy it.

My screens weave is angled. Perhaps that's a part of the problem. I took some photos of the pixelization in dark scenes. The worst so far is the opening scenes for black water horizon. Just terrible. I'll post tomorrow when I get a chance. I really don't think it's a calibration problem. I've spent a month trying to make it right, of course not working on it daily..... I'll check out JVC. I assume Epson 5040 is the recommendation from that company? Sony has a ton of projectors and several between $3 and $5k. Sonys lumen rating is low but they have their own technology and those ratings aren't exactly accurate e right?

Okay, here are the photos from the opening scenes of deep water horizon. I also had this same problem with much of the Saw movies as well as the recent movie Lights Out. Pretty much anything with dark scenes. Clarity is average in brighter scenes but not impressive as most reviews with this projector said it would be.

Throw distance is at 12'

Damn that looks like 480P or heavily compressed bluray material that isnt being scaled correctly. I can see why your not happy with that. Do you have another source you can try, different BD player or a game console.

I've gotten the same affect from blue ray, regular DVD and my Verizon signal. Am I missing a setting on my projector? Is it down scaling everything to 480?

Is it going through your AVR perhaps something is happening in there. I know my AVR has scaling options and i prefere to just use pass through.Connect your projector directly to bd player and check that bd is outputting 1080P. Honestly i could even be the cable. Maybe put the bd close to the PJ and hook with short cable. TEST TEST TEST

Hmmm interesting. From what I hear a cable is either working or not. If it's working it's processing the signal that's being sent. If it's not working then there will be no image. I know for sales purposes there are a lot of discussions about cable quality but lots of folks say it's not really true that a cable is like a light bulb. It either works or doesn't. However I have another cable so I'll try it and see.

As far as my receiver (Yamaha 3050) I'm not sure if there are scaling options, I will look through the menu and see what I can find. Thanks.

I just tried playing with the video settings on my Yamaha. There were options to set video processing to:

Through
Auto
480p
1080i
1080p

It was already set to Auto. I tried all other settings on the same scene as pictured above. No change..... (I didn't bother to try 480).

I'll try a new cable tomorrow.

My screen isnt tilted because of its width. It only has moire when the edges of the image line up exactly and only for a split second if it does. Its rare.
Is your screen square to the pj, floor, wall, etc?

page 141 of the manual. Thats a nice piece of kit , and i dont think the cable is defective just not up to the task it may be causing the reciever or pj to default to a lower resoolution or i may be blowing smoke out my butt. Better to do some different things than buy another projector and have the same issue. If it was me i would just simplify the chain with minimalist setup and trying different configurations.

Yes I believe my screen is square to the floor, wall etc. it's just hung on the wall like a picture frame.

Both the yamaha and the panasonic will tell you whats being output.

In theory if they dont match it proves its the cable.

Does the remote for your projector have an info button that displays what signal its recieving.

Ha blair ya beat me to it

Yeah, that isn't a screen issue. That is definitely an issue with the image coming out of the projector, not what reflects off of the screen (if that makes sense).

Looks like (as already said) a problem where the projector isn't getting and/or displaying 1080p, the color sample (4:4:4, 4:2:2, etc) isn't set correctly, or something.

My projector was set to 4:4:4 because my blu-ray player and HTPC could handle it, but when my son-in-law brought over his PS4, the image was terrible, and it had gradient pixelation like in your images. I had to set it to Auto (or 4:2:2) on my projector, and then the PS4 image worked fine. Might be something to check.

Could be a similar setting on your AVR, and as others mentioned, just make the connection as simple as possible. When troubleshooting video issue, skip worrying about the audio and skip the AVR altogether. Just blu-ray --> HDMI --> projector and then check the 4:4:4 / 4:2:2 setting.

Yes I believe my screen is square to the floor, wall etc. it's just hung on the wall like a picture frame.

I just checked the signal on both the Yamaha recover and Panasonic playing the same scene. Both 1080I/60htz....perhaps the cable.... would be awesome to find out that's it but I'm sceptacle....

Or door number 3, you got a dud projector. This is not unreasonable to suspect,nothing is perfect.

Nick,

I'm not sure I understand 4:4:4 / 4:2:2.... I have everything set to auto and dont see anything resembling those settings you mentioned....

page 57 and 58 or the online manual.

Starting to think its just the PJ. Some interesting reading HERE

I bought it from projectorpeople.com unfortunately mid build of my room. It wasn't until their return policy was up that I was able to plug it in and start working on it. They told me I am SOL...

But panny themselves must warranty it for a predetermined time.

I've also heard of quite a few duds on AVS.
I'd call Panasonic for warranty instructions asap. The hour meter doesn't lie.
It is a good PJ, definitely worth sending it in before spending another few thousand on another make/model.

ill try them too but I'm quite sure all they will want to do is have me send it back and try to repair it.... then I'll be waiting 8 weeks or something for a resonlution.

Well you could send for repair and buy a new one then sell it when it comes back. Or if your that pissed off send it to me .

Have you tried against a white wall?
It would confirm whether its the PJ or the screen.

Your projector is fine. Its a color space issue.

Change your bluray output to 4:2:2. Change your AVR to bypass. Change your PJ to 4:2:2. Turn off dithering for now. Turn off any deep black etc settings for now.

It is not an issue with the PJ being broken. If you cant fix it I'll take it off your hands. . It is a setting somewhere.

You should have just 1 calibrated setting.... If you want I can walk you through settings and using WOW correctly. I've done about 20 displays with it.

That's a nice offer and I may take you up on it.... the WOW assistance not the PJ give away. Ha! I've used WOW a lot too and really don't feel it's a calibration issue. I will spend time in the manual for the PJ, DVD and AVR and see if I can find the 4:2:2 settings. I haven't seen anything like that.

Still considering just selling the PJ and upgrading. Nick mentioned a JVC, any specific model? Anyone else have suggestions?

Yup, that is what I mentioned too. Seems like a viable reason for the issue.

For something under $5000, you have a lot of options. Any of the current JVCs will really be impressive. The Epson line-up is pretty solid too. Avoid any low end (as reflected by price) Epson and you will be OK.

Also be weary of side-by-side specs for contrast. JVC has the most "honest" (if you can call it that) contrast ratios. By that, I mean that you might see a 50,000:1 ratio on a JVC and a 1,000,000:1 on another brand, and the JVC will will out in real world tests. Not always, but just something to consider. The other specs don't get skewed as much.

Okay,

Seems like Projectorpeople.com are going to help with direct discussion with Panasonic for me for now.

Going to try a new cable tonight.... Otherwise....

opinions on these choices?

JVC DLA-RS420

Sony VPL-HW65ES

Epson 5040UB

Just listening to this now. Just hit the 4:09 mark, which sums up most of the industry's opinion of JVC projectors.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jAPI_LAfSZQ

That being said, you picked 3 very popular models from 3 different companies making good projectors.

The video also hits things like real contrast/dynamic range vs. the over-inflated specs like the Epson claims at 1,000,000:1 and why JVC's native dynamic range is so good, even though the spec is "only" 40,000:1 or there abouts in comparison.

The Sony tops out at 1080p.
The Epson and JVC do faux-K, so the image will look sharper and closer to real 4K.

The Sony has a 3 year warranty vs 2 years on the Epson and JVC.

My pick though, looking at all of those pros/cons (even the "cons" are still pretty good specs on all models), then factoring in that Sony and even more so for Epson use a fake-ish method for getting contrast ratio vs a much more realistic rating on the JVC, and I would pick the JVC all day long.



The Sony and JVC use their own flavors of LCOS (SXRD for Sony and I-DLA for JVC). LCOS is generally considered superior to LCD like in the Epson.

The Epson can crank out 2500 ANSI lumens at high power, vs 1800 for the Sony and JVC. Again, these aren't always "higher is better" since the LCOS is a better technology at the same ANSI lumens, so those are all probably a wash in real world use.

Sony and Epson basically turn their projectors on to full power inside a pitch black room/test area, calibrate to output the brightest possible "white" as possible, open the iris on the lens all the way, and put their meter just in front of the lens. Grab that reading, and then they turn off the projector completed (as it is OFF) and then measure that black, and compare the difference.

JVC uses the same dark room/test area, calibrate to be a bright image, open the iris, measure the bright white, but instead of turning the projector off, they then tell the projector to display a black, so the projector is still on, the iris is still open, and the projector calibration is NOT changed, and then compare the difference. So both readings are with the projector being on, and no changes outside of "display and measure white" and then, without changing anything, "display and measure black."

Someone did a "real native" contrast test on a few projectors back when I looked at JVC, and even with the much lower spec, the JVC outperformed the others pretty handily which is why I chose JVC back in December 2011 (I can't believe that is has been 5 years since I pre-orderded it)...

Lots of great stuff. I visited a local home theater store and discussed all of this with their sales staff. The owner was also chiming in and by the end of the hour long conversation I ended up buying and JVC X750RBU that they had in stock. Bumped my price up close to $5k but I'm looking forward to improved images in my theater room. They have a 30 day return policy although with a restocking fee of 10%. I was just sick of trying to get the better image from my Panasonic. Oh and it was not the cable. Tried that before hitting the store.

Looking forward to hearing about the joy of experiencing your new projector , keep us posted.

For the price the Epson 5040UB is unbelievable. You will scratch your head saying is that 4K, it can't be, sure looks close.

Congrats Aarons!

Wow!!! Straight out of the box, before any calibration amazingly clear picture. Black levels deep as can be. I did a double feature Star Trek 2009 and Star Wars Return of the Jedi. Both with visual effects I'm not sure I had noticed before. Great projector! I'm a raving fan already. Can't wait to calibrate it.

I'm happy for you . . .

Enjoy !

jc

Nice.... Very nice. Good choice for sure.

LOL!!

Nice clip from Last Crusade!

Actually, they are all good projectors, but I think that you will really enjoy the faux-k and inky black levels (still with detail in those black levels) of the JVC.

Back again with another question. I'm getting some duplicate imaging with text on my screen. I think it's due to the image reflecting off of the wall behind the screen? Isn't there a black fabric I should hang behind my screen?

Something...
Seymour has some black material but never did answer my request for more info.
I ended up hanging moving blankets across the corners and behind the screen.

Moving blankets? Didn't that muffle the sound from the speakers behind your screen?

Nope. The blankets arent in front of them.

Just experimenting with different ideas.