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#424206 - 03/18/17 10:20 AM M60 Ti vs v4
Rock Offline
old hand

Registered: 07/22/15
Posts: 71
I have M22 and one epc 500. Now there is a pair of M60ti for 400cad. Is this a good deal? What is the improvement of M60v4? Can I use M22 as rear speaker?

Thanks.

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#424234 - 03/18/17 09:50 PM Re: M60 Ti vs v4 [Re: Rock]
bridgman Offline
axiomite

Registered: 08/25/04
Posts: 6059
Loc: Bowmanville, Ontario, Canada
I have M60ti's in my home theater and M60v4s as music speakers downstairs. I am totally happy with the ti's for home theater and listening to music upstairs although the v4's do seem a bit smoother for music (eg I can toe them in a bit and still get the right low/high balance while the ti's needed to point straight ahead). For home theater use the ti's are IMO a great deal and arguably might even be a tiny bit better than the v4s from dialog perspective.

re: M22s are you thinking rear surround (6 and 7 in a 7.1 system) or side surround ? Either way the answer depends a bit on how close the speakers need to be to your listening position - the closer they have to be then the more you will appreciate QS's over direct speakers like the M22s... at least that seems to be the general consensus from other people's experiences. I had to put side surrounds a couple of feet from the primary listening positions so went with QS8s.
_________________________
M60ti/VP180/QS8/M2ti, SVS PC-Plus 20-39, EP500
M5HP, Sierra-1, M40ti
M3v4, VP100

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#424238 - 03/18/17 11:43 PM Re: M60 Ti vs v4 [Re: bridgman]
Rock Offline
old hand

Registered: 07/22/15
Posts: 71
Thanks Bridgman.

Happy to know that Ti is still good. Just wondering how to best use the m22. Listening music is more important than video. Would m60ti +ep500 better than m22+ep500?

Sadly my coming av receiver5.1 doesnt come with front pre out. So I would have to switch cables to share the front speakers. Also my NAD has A and B but no sub pre out. I may not need to switch cables. Just connect NAD B with speaker cable, then sub cable to receiver.

Any suggestion on sharing the front and sub for both music and movie?

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#424253 - 03/19/17 02:06 AM Re: M60 Ti vs v4 [Re: Rock]
bridgman Offline
axiomite

Registered: 08/25/04
Posts: 6059
Loc: Bowmanville, Ontario, Canada
I was using M2's and a subwoofer for music but was never totally happy with the results until I ordered the M60ti's and moved the M2's to surround duty. QS8s came later.

M22's would allow a lower cutoff than the M2s but I have never been a huge fan of sub/sat for music.

Note that this is a bit of a minority view and a lot of people (including some with a lot more audio knowledge and experience than me) are really happy with M22 or M22+sub for music.

IIRC my receiver (HK AVR 630) allows different speaker setups for each input so CD can use mains-only while DVD/BR can use mains+sub, but I don't think most AVRs allow that.

We should probably hold off and get some input from others - I ended up with a separate music system just because the acoustics in the HT area (a loft with 45 degree ceiling/walls) were so hard to manage so I'm not the best person to listen to re: using the same system for HT and music.
_________________________
M60ti/VP180/QS8/M2ti, SVS PC-Plus 20-39, EP500
M5HP, Sierra-1, M40ti
M3v4, VP100

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#424265 - 03/19/17 03:12 PM Re: M60 Ti vs v4 [Re: Rock]
alan Offline

connoisseur

Registered: 01/29/02
Posts: 3259
Loc: Toronto/New York/parry Sound
Hi Rock,
If you love music over your M22s, I'd be cautious about ordering an early "ti" version of the M60s. When I joined Axiom in the early 2000's, for a 10-year stint writing and testing Axiom models, I did not much like the early M60ti, compared to the M22ti, which I loved from its early versions to the later V versions.

The M60ti had an edgy brash sibilance on brasses and many vocals, especially pop vocals, much like the early version of the M80ti, which I also didn't like -- until Ian redesigned and tweaked the crossover. The M80 then became a great speaker, later in its ti version, and for succeeding models. As for the M60, it wasn't until much later versions that I came to really like the M60. I don't recall which M60 I heard that I really liked. I still have the listening report somewhere; I'll see if I can find it.

In contrast, the M22ti never had that edgy sibilance that I objected to in the early M80ti and M60ti. It was always smooth, linear, uncolored and neutral. Of course it always lacked deep bass, but a subwoofer solved that.

So perhaps you should check out the early M60s with a returnable option.

Regards,
Alan
_________________________
Alan Lofft,
Axiom Resident Expert (Retired)

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#424268 - 03/19/17 04:09 PM Re: M60 Ti vs v4 [Re: alan]
Rock Offline
old hand

Registered: 07/22/15
Posts: 71
Thanks Alan. I trust your professionalism.
My M22 is v4,with epc 500 v4,so I am always wondering if it is a good idea to go with an early version of floorstanding speaker. When it comes to an upgrade, would I get significant improvement with m60,or m80 or higher model v4?
Another question, is M3ti a good product or has the same sibilance issue?

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#424275 - 03/19/17 05:22 PM Re: M60 Ti vs v4 [Re: Rock]
Mojo Offline
connoisseur

Registered: 01/21/07
Posts: 4698
I am not a fan of M3s or M22s with or without a sub. Alan and others, I am donning my flame suit.

Having said that, you can use your M22s for rears if you think rears will benefit you. 7.1 does not benefit me over 5.1. I should qualify that by saying I use QS8s for surrounds.

If you don't think 7.1 will benefit you, trade in your M22s towards a pair of M5HPs. I have not heard them but I have no doubt they will sound fantastic over the M22s, M3s and maybe even the older larger models like M60s and M80s.

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#424276 - 03/19/17 07:39 PM Re: M60 Ti vs v4 [Re: Rock]
alan Offline

connoisseur

Registered: 01/29/02
Posts: 3259
Loc: Toronto/New York/parry Sound
Rock:
No, the M3ti does not have the sibilance issue, but it's not quite as smooth and uncolored as the M22.

As to seeing an improvement with larger floorstanding speakers like the M80 or M60, it really depends on how big your room is and how loud you like your music.

In my 20 x 13 x 9 ft room, I hear no advantage of the M80s, which I also have, over the M22ti and the EP500 sub.
The one limitation of the M22 is its dynamic limits. The M60 or M80 would play cleaner at high volume in a bigger room than the M22s.

As to Mojo, he'll have to do double-blind tests first; then he might modify his judgments. And so far as recommending a speaker he's never heard, that's just crazzzeee!

Alan
_________________________
Alan Lofft,
Axiom Resident Expert (Retired)

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#424277 - 03/19/17 08:53 PM Re: M60 Ti vs v4 [Re: Rock]
Mojo Offline
connoisseur

Registered: 01/21/07
Posts: 4698
It is crazy the M5HP wasn't introduced in favor of the M3 and the M22 and as a result, so many have either had to offend their ears or move to M60s or M80s even though their applications didn't call for them.

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#424280 - 03/19/17 11:19 PM Re: M60 Ti vs v4 [Re: Rock]
Rock Offline
old hand

Registered: 07/22/15
Posts: 71
Any suggestions are appreciated and enhancing my knowledge base.

My room is an open room (23x10x8) with one open side wall(7x7 and 3x3 openings at the end) and open back wall(3.5x4.5 in the middle).

That is why I feel the dynamic range is limited. The music is clear but start to distort a little bit when increasing volume too much.

Other than speaker upgrade, can I do anything to improve it other than blocking the openings (wouldn't get approval from wife without asking:))?

Placement of the M22s with stands. Should they be placed differently than floorstanding? Currently use cardas method.


Edited by Rock (03/19/17 11:19 PM)

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