Axiom Home Page Forums General Discussion Advice from Axiom Owners What are your opinions on power outlets

Have been recently looking at PS audios and Audioquests power receptacles. They claim cleaner than hospital grade outlets {EMI\RFI} rejection etc. Supposedly can even clean power before a power conditioner, regenerator etc. One about 1\2 price of the other. Looks very intriguing.

Has anyone experience with this sort of product? Do you find any benefit from previous outlets if so?

Please dont get offended since this is just my opinion but i feel these things are used by audiophools. Just another way to jerk money out of your wallet. We all want to believe in fairy dust .

No offence taken at all.

I'm asking for opinions.

Being more of the people on here are electrician type and rather well educated towards these types of audiophooleries thought I would ask.

Thank you for you opinion Richard
My self not being an electrician or well read on the topic, don't know if it's bs or not

I think for everyone that feels the way i do there are many more that believe the other way. I understand when a monitor is tracking your health in a hospital a glitch showing up on screen would not be a good thing but for music there is plenty of noise below the noise floor that is hidden by the music. The question is whether that noise is influencing the music in any way. If you put put your ear to a speaker when nothing is playing you will likely hear some white noise the question is , is that impinging on your enjoyment. I believe that the engineers who design our equipment have done their job and designed the PS to keep this noise out. Much like extraneous tics and pops that get hidden below the music when playing vinyl. Hopefully others will chime in with their beliefs and experiences to get a full picture.And yeah its hard to make sense of this stuff becasue we all want audio nirvana and were willing to go to great lengths to get it and these companies study people and their habits and the play to our insecurities.

I've got a Klein pro multi meter with very basic knowledge.

Personally I can't see how they would be much more than medical grade in that aspect. Of EMI and RFI blocking or grounding. Plus how can it possibly improve existing wiring without actually changing it out for a lower gauge or a private circuit of its own.

Recently I purchased a larger newer Monster power than the one I had 70% off their new Black Platinum line, that has 12 outlets. The coax. isolator and all my equipment on the same line with this new unit has cleared an existing coax. ground loop I have that my older unit didn't have enough outlets to cover.

Now wondering if an upgraded wall socket would help further.

Thanks again for your opinion.

Engineers will do what is possible with the time and budget they're allotted and with the capabilities of the development team. If business management decides a product has to be out the door in a year, and research is happening simultaneously with development, and the team is fresh, there isn't much chance the product will be optimized for performance.

Noise impacts the quality of sound more than the vast majority of listeners understand. In most products, the spatial cues are buried in the noise. This is one of the reasons by the way why some amps or receivers sound different than others even at the same SPL.

There are so many factors related to achieving a low noise floor besides the numerous design decisions that have to be made within the power supply design. Design departments that understand this have a noise mitigation protocol that is audited throughout the product development process.

Sounds like someone here should take the Richard Clark amplifier challenge and show us all how great they think they are at hearing things that arent there.

I have two main audio environments. One is an 800 cu. ft. room and the other is 4,200 cu. ft. The small one has Totem Dreamcatchers in it and the big one M80v2. The small one is a much deader environment than the large one. I also have two receivers and an amp.

SPL-matched and set to flat, I can clearly hear differences between both receivers and the amp in my large space. I cannot hear any difference between the three in my small space.

What does the Richard Clark amplifier challenge tell you about my experience, one-time Socketman and now Gr8_White_North?

"the louder one always sounds better"... Not my words

As I said, the sessions were SPL-matched.

My best sounding system (shoulda left good enough alone) used an Acme silver cryo outlet. Don't know how much the outlet contributed but have 6 more to install into my post flood refurbished home.

In an Airbus 380 over Greenland now, seats recline. 100 agonizing positions.

Yeah... it's nice that *your* seats recline but it sucks that the person in front of you can recline *their* seat too.

Awesome 2x6 come on summer, time for reno. weather.
Sadly in the air those darn seats are always a pain in the.

Thanks Mojo for mentioning noise floor.

Have an actual electricians outlet shop a couple blocks away, decided to try a hospital grade outlet {10th of the A.Q.s price} surprisingly lowered my digital noise floor a fair bit {Spotify XBone C.D.}. Second day with it in and yet to play some L.P.s so not totally sure if it helps my analog or placebo.

A plus in going to such a shop is some pointers in trouble shooting bad grounds. Have now found the source of my issues, {counseling failed me}:} Darn old building with water mains grounding the clamp all rusted and cable sheathing cracked at the clamp>

As far as I know, there are no standards dictating the rejection of conducted or radiated emissions *into* audio equipment. There are standards related to emissions *coming out of* audio equipment (eg. FCC Class B) and usually when you mitigate one you also mitigate the other.

When it comes to conducted emissions into the power supply however, specific measures need to be taken. It's not clear to me that audio equipment manufacturers automatically build such measures into their products.

It's quite possible adding equipment upstream like cables, receptacles, etc could make an audible difference if such equipment is engineered-for-purpose and the site suffers from such problems. However, adding such equipment to mitigate emissions can end up affecting dynamics so things are not as simple as everyone thinks they are.

Hi Bridgman
Flying business class on Lutwaffe airlines. Seats look really comfortable. Not. The irony, LAX to Frankfurt, Frankfort to Tel Aviv.

I can hear and see Mediterranean from my room. It is beautiful here.

The guy who makes the omelettes is into 60s rock, loves vinyl. I'm going to send him some. "You saw Janice Joplin?" he asked. "Yes," I said. "Oy," he said with admiration.

I saw Janice Joplin at a concert in Winnipeg - 3 months before her untimely death.

She sure could wail a blues tune...

TAM

Lucky wish I could have seen her And Jimi being they both grew up in our neighbourhood, Vancouver Seattle. Though I'm to young my parents got to see them.

So After a week with my outlets changed over, and changing my cables grounding clamp to my buildings water mains. Wow what a difference all around. Cleaner Bass bigger sound stage. Even cleaned the sound level of my sources. My Vinyl even sounds much quieter, no crackles or pops until the end of the record then even they are more pronounced.

My 8 year old son came back from school and said why does it sound so much better a couple days later.

I was shocked
As this is only hospital grade and not Audiophool. Sadly here the Audiophool units are harder to come across.

Clearly the grounding issues were responsible for what your experiencing . Changing many things at one time does not lend credence to any one change. Glad its sounding the way it should for you now, enjoy.

It had nothing to do with grounding. Brendo disturbed the dust on his cables which improved the dielectric constant of the insulation.

I miss Bob

And Mary

Thanks guys.

Sorry my last post should have been findings and additions of the week.

The grounding clamp helped quite a bit. Changed it a couple days ago now wed. The old one was so oxidized it couldn't be removed with out cutting bolts. The outlet has heavy grounding as well which I added last Thurs.

My son noticed the sound before the clamp upgrade. That was my logic in adding it as well. Together they have been a great addition to my system.

Funny enough in the last 3 months since going Anthem have played with A.V.R. placement and hook ups 4 times now. And those damn cable trolls that mess them up just keep returning.
Should actually tie them separate one day.

you do realize that hospital grade outlets are not designed to give any better connection or less resistance to power. They are designed to not spark when you plug and unplug from the outlet. That is why they cost far more.

Why doesnt your screen name say, MattManBack bitches. also good point good to see you back.

Besides the fact they cost more than standard receptacles, everything you've said is false, Matt. They do indeed offer improved retention of the mated plug and building conductors and lower electrical resistance. They are not designed to quench arcs (sparks).

When compared with the specifications of a standard house-hold receptacle, they have improved flammability, insulation, fault current withstand, strain relief, temperature, current overload, thermal, grounding, voltage withstand, tamper-resistance, resistance to arcing (not the same as arc quenching) and crush-resistance.

He never left. We all knew he was lurking. Just like I was for 6 years.

was a sad day








Be careful.
You know how many people die in hospitals each year?

I think those outlets must mess with cardiac, pulmonary, and neurological integrity, or something.


Yes I saw a poster the other day that said: Stop Medical Genocide.

The statistics clearly show that every time there is a long and drawn out strike that shuts down hospitals..the death rate in that area drops by anywhere from 20% to over 45%. These surveys also take into considerations the methods of the surveys..that might come into question. Yes. the death rate drops when hospitals are closed.

Makes me re-think that standard movie line of, "Just hang on, we're nearly at the hospital!' And what..hang on and die there, instead?

And I do agree with dup, the average person can have 'balanced AC' in their house, but is safest if the room itself is wired solely for balanced AC, and the room is clearly marked as being so, at each outlet.

And twist lock connectors for AC are inherently a better contact point. Considerably more expensive to implement (one ac wall socket per individual location), but it disallows for people cross connecting balanced AC gear with that of regular AC gear. The number of issues that can come up with modern gear are low, but it is safest to isolate the system from potential error.

Good luck finding a licensed electrician who will install balanced AC circuits in a house. I doubt city inspectors would ever pass the installation. I don't think the NEC allows it for residential. Even if it does, you won't find any audio gear in North America that is safe when connected to balanced AC.

Welcome back Matt.

I've been doing fair bit of research on ratings Amp. power etc. The twist connectors will fry all your SH!& to much power 30Amp and greater plus you'd need a separate circuit all together bigger wire etc. ugly ass conduit, severe fire hazard without. Even straight 20Amp. outlet on 15 line fire hazard. To much current.

When purchasing was on the phone with an electrician whom said the afore mentioned benefits of the receptacle. Better isolated ground solid connections. Designed for cleaner currents.

Although he recommended trouble shooting external grounding first. broken wires clamps and such.Which led me to the clamp replacement almost a week later.

Just decided myself to also give the receptacle a shot first.
Figure double a normal one 20 Vs 200 for a test with the A.Q. version. Plus I was in the shop with the unit in my hand already, while on the phone. So why not give it a go eh?
The outlet was originally grounded through the metal outlet box I myself stretched the ground from one of a couple screws that had surplus to ground the box to use with back of outlet as well.
For my ground floor in an old 60s building has been helpful Voodoo magic. solved some long standing ground issues.

2x mentioned the Acme there's a couple other cryo. treated Hospital\Commercial grades with copper replacements, that deal with the arc. As the A.Q. is supposed to relive arc as well.

Maybe a little too cable debate for most?

I think the hospital have more staff than electrical hazard at least in my city. A few people close, given meds. they're allergic to etc. Quite dangerous let alone the stuff you're exposed to in the waiting areas.

Nothing like a wet leperous sneeze in the face.

If i read this correctly , you added an extra ground to the receptacle when you installed it? Again , very unlikely the receptacle was the source of the improvement. Not picking a fight here ,honest . As i said before making multiple changes at once blurs the results. In any trouble shooting situation its important to form a conclusion and then implement a fix and then prove or disprove its validity. I could fix a car by lifting the radiator cap and sliding a new car under it ,there its fixed but that is hardly a sensible approach. An exageration strictly to make a point.

Then your stuck waiting together for hours.

More research on Acme and Hubble Cryo. versions. Brings me to no availability in Canada or shipping. Only Audio Quest and P.S. Audio. To which shops carrying the two are very limited.

Easier to find Power conditioners even really pricy ones, in my neighbourhood.

I used the existing ground from the box. It had excess copper bolted to the boxes rear contacts. Common for deeper and older metal box housing. Lifted one side scavenged the extra reconnected through bolts. To be sure of grounding, connected what I scavenged to the outlets ground terminal as well.

Mainly don't need the terminal on outlet nowadays. As the ears it screws to the wall with are normally sufficient with metal box.

Well if you feeling ambitious one day , change out the receptacle with the old one and see if your son notices. That would be a pretty good blind test.

That's unsafe.

I fully intend to switch back. Have another on same wall original outlet.

Thank you for your view, I probably did fix all grounds to fast to decipher which was most effective in my situation.

That's why I'm asking for opinions.
Sometimes another point of view is what's needed to see mistakes and such.

In my trials the last week picked up an outlet checker {Bad ground, reversed wires etc.} Along with a better stripper\Live wire tester. The checker is super handy just plug in and lights tell about connections.

Modern connections already have the receptacles boxes grounded. So the ears being the connection over actual wire is pretty standard as long as box was installed correct and not plastic variety of course.

Any of the houses i lived in over the past 40yrs have been grounded through the receptacle mounting screws which is kinda hoky imho. Not sure how my current abode is wired but its about 20yrs old so newer than most of my previous homes. Brendo you could just plug into another outlet as a comparison. The only reason i mention any of this is that we all have expectation bias and if things are no done unbeknownst to us we can not be partial. Now your son on the other hand is completely impartial, i wish i had this opportunity to conduct such an experiment. Perhaps i will get a receptacle and see if anyone notices, afterall they are really inexpensive.

The old house i lived in a few years ago had some really hokey wiring, the house was split into two living quarters and new service panels were installed for each unit. The electrician simply ran new wire to the old panel and used wire nuts to connect the old wiring to the appropriate panel for each room. In 7 yrs there i lost 2 receptacles, they simply quit working requiring extension cords to be run.I also had a boat load of grounding noise especially on my phono preamp. This house is silent as a lamp.

Awesome idea for comparison.
Will do. just need a few days to swap without family knowing.

Sometimes scary seeing electricians in action. The place I work we had a couple of the big 30\50 Amp. suckers added over the years. Whole new panel and lines added in no time. Although open walls with typical conduit is a lot easier to wire any location needed.

I used to wire homes in the early 80s to feed and clothe myself. I learned from Mr. Nakamura - a top notch high school teacher and master electrician who also taught me how to treat girls. The ground wires from the lumex/romex cables are marretted with pig tails terminating at the junction box and receptacle grounds. Don't rely on the receptacle mounting hardware for grounding.

Mr. Nakamura passed away but I still practice his techniques to show my respect.

You're gonna ignite yourself. Stop phukin' around with 120VAC unless you're Electro...mmmmk?

You would shyte yourself if you saw me change a receptacle. I put in a 220 without turning off the power. I can also do a valve job through the tailpipe, previous work experience was gynecology.

Heh heh heh...you're gonna vapourize your hairy, wrinkled 'nads one of these days.

As a former gynecologist i am very concerned with your repeated observations and obsession with nad tickling and nads in general.

I can't help myself, Richard. Next time you're sitting spread-eagled out in the yard, make sure your boys aren't spilling out of your trunks. Or at least groom them man because they look like sea urchins.

Seems like you know a lot about 'nad psychology. You were a gynie for girly-men, eh?

If i were to sit like that in my yard i wouldnt see my nads ever again.

The lumberjacks around there would blow them off, eh?

I don't have that problem around here. I do whatever I want on my deck and if the neighbors don't like my 'nads, or what my lady-friends do with them, they can put their binoculars away.

too cold if ya catch my drift.

Oh well...you're not properly prepared. In the winter, I drape them over an electric hot plate with dual warming surfaces. That way they can get their vitamin D without icing.

All NAD tickling and freezing aside.

I meant check an existing outlet on same line just with out family seeing so I can better test their observations.

Please always cut power first and double check. I splurged on extra precautions{Testers} so not to get zapped wireless tester or multimeter first.
I got a plugin tester to make sure of my work. Then went and checked all other outlets as well.

You don't need all those tools. Just connect a couple of alligator clips to the bottom of your 'nad sack and stretch it real good to prevent contact with your nads. If you feel tingling, that's 120VAC. If you hear sizzling, that's 240VAC.

Ah that's what those clips are for kept trying that with the continuance check, even the nipples no beeps.

[quote=Mojo"If you feel tingling, that's 120VAC. If you hear sizzling, that's 240VAC."[/quote]

Lol.

Don't get me started on nipples. I still haven't got Socketman used to 'nads.

I am not the ultimate expert, although I have been in healthcare IT since 1989, but, in addition to what Mat said above, "Hospital grade" surge protectors also simply do not have "on - off" switches.

I use a ZeroSurge surge protector on my HT, PC, Networking equipment, and my Refrigerator (Too expensive to replace a modern refrigerator, right!) ZeroSurge is a NON MOV surge protector, that will never wear out. For like 20 bucks extra, they can make an "audiophile" version of their surge protector.

Also, except for the refrigerator, I then use a CyberPower CP1500PFCLCD PFC Sinewave UPS 1500VA 900W PFC Compatible Mini-Tower, can be found on sale, for under 150 (I bought 3 last black friday for 139.99).

I am not made of money, but I have been hit by lightening, and it fried all my HT equipment back in 1999.

As far as the PS Audio power conditioners and power plugs, I will never own one in my "real" life, but if I ever won the lottery, and spent 50K or more (and you can spend a LOT MORE!!!), I think that you are down to the last percent improvement, and if you had 50K, 200K, etc tied up in Audio equipment, it might be one of those "what the hell, why not, I already spent this much", type of purchases, I have to get that last 1/10 of 1 % performance increase!

Also, if you did have huge sums of money tied up in electronics, the last thing you need is a surge killing it all.

Watch some of the Paul McGowan (Owner of PS Audio) videos on YouTube, the guy is very intelligent, very nice and well spoken, I can listen to him for hours!

I would have dismissed his power stuff as pure snake oil, but he does not seem to be the type of person to want to rip of anyone, and seems to be "fact based".

I think it is for "State of the art" audiophiles, or maybe "Super expensive State of the art" audiophiles.

Like I said, a 799.99 1 meter power cable is not ever going to be in my purchase list, unless I already had hundreds of thousands invested in "super state of the art" HT stuff, and had addressed all other areas of my listening environment first!

I've gotten in to watching the vids. from Paul McGowan over the last couple months. He's quite good at advice without selling his own product and self promo.

Many of P.S. Audio's products are well above my current price range. The Power ports being the most attainable, Though probably a minor improvement with newer households with newer cabling proper groundings and such. Still looks intriguing. A fun test with minor investment for my updated 60s wiring.

Cheers Brendan

So figured what the He!! only live once.
Picked up a P.S. Audio Power Port, the outlet. Comparing the 3, original $2, $20 hospital,$60 P.S. Holy $h%# the P.S. is much more precise, quick and detailed than the other 2.
New Al Di Meola every string detail quick and precise.

Testing through Tidal, Vinyl and C.D. The hospital helped my ground floor a lot still a little hum through vinyl remains. With the plain 2 buck hum is very evident.

With the P.S. I'm not getting any vinyl hum at all ears pressed to my M80s nice and silent.

Interesting - it's not obvious how a different outlet would affect "detail" (or imaging, soundstage etc...) but I guess it makes sense that if you have a poor / resistive connection to the ground wiring that could affect noise & hum ?

So added more pieces to my puzzle.

Decided to up grade my AC mains power cords for my Anthem and my ADA1250 the darn stock plugs just wouldn't stay in. Any little movement out they would come.

Picked up a cheaper WAudio off Amazon great reviews without the high end prices. Nice construction with solid 10AWG and the big ass plugs. Going over it with a voltage sensor dead quiet, great shielding.

Wow it plays great with the ADA seems to have opened up even more or possibly just silenced my ground floor completely.

Another upgrade I've tried recently R.C.A. related. Over the years have collected a bunch of Monster cable the connections of their RG6 Coax are just crimp on that always pull right off.

My studies show BJC and others use RG6. So I changed them to compression RCA plugs. The quad shielding is great although not Furutech or high end Solder plugs, seems better than the RG59 monoprice it's replaced. Supposedly RG6 isn't the best for Bass response either.

Hoping to all your Friday listening is fantastic.