Axiom Home Page Forums General Discussion Advice from Axiom Owners ADA1500 - Trigger Cable

Hi Guys,

I finally pulled the trigger on the ADA1500 (3 Channel). Quick question related to triggers. Does it come with the trigger cable or do I need to purchase one?

Thanks!

You need to buy one. Careful with that thing so you don't go deaf.

What?

Oh...I now understand the need for a 1500.

Ha! Actually, I upgraded my ancient Denon AVR-3806 a couple of months ago to the Denon AVRX4400H (last years model, so I got it for only $800). Although it is rated 125WPC (instead of 120WPC which was the rating of the AVR-3806), it does not seem to have the punch of my older receiver. It's actually significantly lighter too, and gets VERY hot. So I figured now was the time to do the upgrade I wanted to do for years. The ADA1500 will power my two M80s and my VP180, and I'll let the Denon handle the 2 Surrounds, 2 Rears, and 2 Dolby Atmos speakers.

I'm curious if the punch you lack is during music, movies or both.

Both, but mostly music. LFE is handled by the 2 EP800s and they do a great job below 40 Hz, so I notice it more in music. I tried with and without Auddessy. Even the wife noticed it. She gave me the okay for the ADA1500 purchase, so it must have bothered her too.

You have a good wife.

Be sure the cable you get is mono for the trigger, stereo usually doesn't like to trigger.

Really? I heard either would work. I only have stereo, do I need to buy mono?

The answer may be called out in Axiom's manual but if not, it's a question for Axiom for sure. It's possible to design the trigger circuit to accept mono or stereo or both.

The trigger jack is stereo, but we only connect the tip and sleeve, so you can use either a mono or stereo cable.

Andrew

Andrew, you're the man!

Thanks Andrew! Can't wait till it arrives!

Sigh... Still Waiting...

The wait is coming to an end, it shipped today.

YEA! Thanks Ian!!!!

You will finally be able to hear what the M80 is capable of; more so if you have v4. Just be careful because the 1500 can melt your M80s. Not the M100 though. I tried.

It can also vaporize your 180. Poof!

And liquify your cochlea. Bubbly goo!

And if you have a martial arts staff mounted in your living room, it will fall. Go bang!

Okay, now I'm scared...

I won't put it on 11.

Congrats SRoode limbo is almost over.

Try it at 11 isn't that the point of such power? With my 1250 I can go reference without any hint of distortion. Plus the ADA barely gets warm even with prolonged use.

I can tell you unless you are listening to flutes, the 1500 gets very hot in 2.0 feeding the 100s at full power. A class A or even A/B amp would turn into a puddle without very beefy and expensive heat sinks or less beefy sinks and active cooling.

Okay now I'm confused. How does a Class D amp get that hot? My Denon 4400 is HOT, but it's a Class A/B, driving all 9 speakers, 3 of which are the ones the ADA1500 will now power.

Oh and anything below 60 Hz is handled by my 2 EP800s

If your denon had to dish out 650W a side into 4 Ohms from 20Hz on up, it would turn into puddly goo. At 90% efficiency and at that level, the ADA is still turning about 150W into heat. That's like 3/4 of the power of your Denon. LOL.

The Bryston 28bcubed mono amp dumps 6100 BTU/hr at 1000W output into 8 Ohms and 2700 BTU/hr at 166W. 6100 BTU/hr is my heat-rated gas fireplace on low.

Looking at it a different way, that Bryston needs 1800W in to produce 1000W out. And 800W in to produce 160W out. Wow!

The ADA is a tree-hugger and the 28bcubed is a depletist.

What's even more amazing about that Bryston, is that at 1000W output, the noise is in the picoWatt region. I'd love to know how Bryston pulled that off.

A 1000 Ohm resistor at room temperature and operating with a 10KHz bandwidth generates noise in the nanoWatt region. That's just thermal noise...at room temperature...which the Bryston is not when it's outputting 1000W. This does not include shot noise, burst noise, flicker noise, intermodulation noise or transit time noise. And I'm probably missing a bunch of noises I'm not familiar with. And that's just one element - a resistor. The Bryston has hundreds of elements. And it's 1000 times less noisy than a single resistor!

I guess that's why it costs $US12K for mono!

It has arrived! Now I just have to wait till I get home from my business trip on Thursday. The Fedex guy told my wife it's very heavy

What you don't see in that photo is the crane holding up that behemoth.

Well, I hooked it up and 2 of the 3 channels don't work. The one that does work does not sound like it is putting out full power. I tried all cable combinations (RCA and speaker wire). I can get all 3 of my speakers working on channel 3 but none of them on channels 1 or 2. I've sent an E-mail to Ian to see what's next.

Super disappointed...

I had a problem with my ADA-1000-3 where channels 1 and 2 were in parallel so it was only working as 2-channel. Ian sent me a new one which has been working flawlessly for over 6 months even after I pushed it way past its limits many times. The 1500-3 has also been a total brute and the only thing that brought it to its knees were stacked M5s which is a 2 Ohm load. But even then, I was able to drive those stacked M5s to 107dB peaks at 13 feet away before it shut down...LOL!

Ian is BOSS!

I have no doubt it will rock! Ian (who is one of the nicest guys in the world) is having a replacement built; he thinks it was probably damaged in shipping. So, a couple more weeks. Can't wait.

In a world full of fragile human beings, Ian is a ROCK!

With Andrew's help I was able to get the ADA1500 working. I reseated the amp board and it works perfectly now. I contacted Axiom and told them no need to send a replacement. Toughest part was removing the 22 screws that hold the top on! Anyway, hooked it up to the MP5HPs first to test and it is POUNDING on them and it's hardly even warm. Wife and I will be away for a couple of days but I'll be back on Sunday to hook it into the theatre and the M80s and VP100. Loving it so far!

The M5s will take everything the 1500 can throw at them. So will the M80s. Your 100 on the other hand will likely ignite and vaporize.

Are you getting the "punch" you were looking for?

Certainly with on the M5HPs! I can't wait to hear the M80s and VP180 (typo above, I have a VP180) being really driven! The amp is hardly getting warm, but the M5HPs are 8 ohm loads. I'm looking forward to it pushing three 4 ohm loads!

The M5 is more like a 6 Ohm load. Yeah, they really have a nice sound. BTW, dont dump the entire 1500 into them in 2.0; only in 2.1. Are the M80s v4?

Oh no, I've had the M80s for 12 years, they have the black dot centers on the drivers. I think they are V2.

I'll be interested to hear your thoughts.

Sorry it took so long to update, but it was a very busy weekend for us on the 17th. Wife was in a BB competition and won her class so we were celebrating!

Anyway I was able to hook the ADA1500 up to my main system. First impression was that although there certainly was more "punch" it was not as much I as anticipated. What I DID notice right away was that the sound was MUCH clearer and tighter than before. I could hear much more detail in the music and it was a much more pleasant sound. It's really hard to put into words. Maybe like pulling cotton out of your ears. I did notice that the drivers on the M80 moved more than before, but not nearly the excursion of the M5HPs, and that's to be expected. I think the next step in upgrade needs to be to replace my 13 year old M80s with current version M100s.

As a side note. When I removed the ADA1500 from the M5HP setup, and replaced it with my Emotiva A300 (150 WPC), I noticed a HUGE difference in sound quality. The M5HPs lost a lot of punch and did not sound nearly as clear or satisfying as when they were hooked up to the ADA1500.

Sound is very hard to describe in words, at least for me. Suffice it to say that the ADA1500 is an amazing piece of equipment and I wish I had the cash to buy more of them to power all of my speakers because it really made a difference in the quality of sound to my ears, and my enjoyment of the music. A big thanks to Ian and Andrew! I love the amp!

Great feedback. When you say the sound was much clearer, tighter, etc, what was your volume setting on the Denon relative to zero?

How far away are you sitting from the 80s, how far apart are they and how far are the front baffles from the front wall?

The Denon was set at 75 of 98, higher than that it started to become uncomfortable to listen to.

I sit 11 feet away from the speakers, and they are 11 feet apart. The front baffle is 28" from the front wall.

I don't know what that is relative to zero. I can tell you with my Onk, I didn't notice a difference on well-recorded material until -2 or -3. At that setting, the M5s weren't exceptionally loud at 14 feet away but I could tell the Onk's compressor was kicking in on peaks. At 0, I could hear distortion. The M100s on the other hand are plenty loud even around -7. As soon as I put the 1500 in, I could drive the M5 to satisfyingly loud levels and that opened up the soundstage and fullness even more. With the 1500 and M100, I can easily melt my ears.

You have good dimensions other than distance to front wall. You should have width and height but little depth in your soundstage. If you can experiment with that front wall distance, you'll be rewarded with amazing depth.

The new Denon came out of the box in 0-98 mode, but I can switch it to db mode. I'll do it this weekend and let you know the db level.

How far off the front wall do you recommend I have the front baffle of the M80s?

This is my current front speaker layout.

Yes, please let me know about dB setting. I am just curious.

I wasn't thinking about M80s when I was referring to depth. I was thinking M5. No matter what I did with my M80v2, I could not get depth. I actually couldn't really get a soundstage. The layers of sound were on top of each other and images were fuzzy. With any of the v4, the layers are there with the images nicely placed and blackness in between. The actives will improve upon this holographic effect.

Feel free with moving the 80s away from the front wall to try to get the depth. Then, replace them with the M5s and let's see what you hear.

Nice room BTW!

Thanks Mojo!

I switched over to db mode. At my loud listening setting, the Denon is at -6.0 db. Using my iPhone DB meter app, and measured at my primary listening position 11 feet from speakers, I peak at 94 db and average 89 db. Any louder than this is uncomfortable to listen to at that distance. There is no clipping or distortion whatsoever. The ADA1500 is amazing, it barely gets warm.



Some exciting news! I contacted Ian about a trade in for my 12 year old M80s, and 13 year old QS8s (Surround only, I'd keep a pair of QS8's as my rears). I didn't think he would want them back because of their age but Ian made a great trade in offer so I pulled the trigger. I'll be getting a pair of M100s to replace my v2 M80s, and a pair or QS10HPs to replace my v2 QS8s (surrounds only)! I am super excited and cannot wait.

Ian is really a terrific person. My wife said if they ever have another anniversary get together up there we are definitely going!

Man, I am so happy for you! You will have the same as I...except I have the 160. You'll see what an amazing upgrade the v4 is! Ian just wants elated customers.

Ok, SRoode, my soon-to-be-oh-so-floored-by-the-v4 friend, let me share this with you. At -6 on my Onk, through the 1500/M100/800 v4 trio and Spotify Premium on my Chromecast Video, I am recording peaks of 96dBC at 12.5 feet away. If I crank my Onk to max (+14.5), I hit peaks of 116dBC which I consider to be the max for the 100 and 1500. The 100 is crossed over at 80Hz.

-6 is very comfy for me for this song and the soundstage is very nice. At 0, it gets tactile and +4 is getting uncomfortable on my chest.

The song is the very well-recorded September in Montreal.

https://open.spotify.com/track/796kuTmB7Pz3YuYbChu58s?si=syV7dPRIQSqy90EZEhhpWw

So awesome! You know it's something special when your wife is egging you on to do the upgrade because she even said the M5HP'ss sound better than the M80 v2's. I can't wait to hear them.

BTW, I may have a VP180, but it's not even an official v2 or v3. I asked Ian years ago if he could make a center modeled off the M80 and he contacted me and told me he had been thinking of doing that. I suggested some things, an Ian listened to my input and correct a lot of my mistakes. Several months later the VP180 was ready. Mine is a little different because I asked for the older drivers with the black center to match my other speakers, so it's probably somewhere between a v2 and a v3. My wife asked him to sign it for me and he graciously did. So, although it probably does not compare to the current offering, it's very special to me and will never be traded in.

Oh, and I'm Steve!

The M5 is indeed much, much better than the M80v2. If you think the M80v2 is clear with the 1500, wait 'till you hear the M100.

You can always trade in the 180 for a real 180 and ask for another signature. It would be worth doing if you have pre-v4 tweeters. Also the aluminum dust cap really helps with heat dissipation and improves linearity. A lot was done between v3 and v4 that doesn't get talked about.

Mojo, quick question.

On your EP800, where do you set the physical crossover knob? Do you turn it all the way up to 150Hz and let the receiver handle the crossover or do you turn it down? Thanks!

I turn it all the way up to 150Hz and let the receiver handle the crossover.

With the 800v4, all I did was set it once and forget it. The only thing I twiddle with is the 'nad tickler/gut punch switch. 'nad tickler for movies and gut punch for music. But even without that switch, the 800v4 is so excellent.

Thanks Mojo! My EP800s are the pre-order first issue ones, so no switch.

Alright! 248 lbs of speakers are ready to cross the border!

upload pictures

Oh yeah? I got the same signature. And Andrew's as well. I wanted a photo of the M5HP design team and the M5's Family of Curves too. I was gonna create a little altar and pay homage every time I listened.

Wait 'till you hear what you've been missing!

The speakers arrived yesterday! Very quick shipping. I unboxed them right away and was immediately taken back by the size of both the M100 and the QS10. They are both much larger than the M80 and QS8. I LOVE the QS10 mounting bracket/power tab combo. It was super easy to install where my former mounting bracket was and to be able to just drop the speaker into place and have it powered was awesome. After hooking everything up I re-ran Audyssey to calibrate the new system. One of the M100s must be wired backwards internally because the Denon warned me that the left speaker was wired backwards. I checked my cables and I was wired correctly, so I just swapped my cables and finished the calibration. The Denon correctly assigned a 60 Hz crossover for the new QS10s, and left my existing rear QS8s at a 90 Hz crossover. Of course the M100s and the VP180 were set to "Large" automatically.

The sound of the M100v4 compared to the M80v2 is a night and day difference. The "punch" that I felt was lacking is definitely there now. But what surprised me the most initially is that they are definitely louder. I have to set the Denon about 3 or 4 decibels lower than what I usually set it at for my normal listening volume. I didn't run my db meter app to see if it is actually louder, but I could tell it is.

We listened to a bunch of different music selections last night and all of them sounded amazing, super clear, and "different" than they did with the old speakers. It really is interesting how different (in a positive way) the music sounded by simply going from the M80v2s to the M100v4s. I never would have thought it would make such a dramatic improvement in the sound quality.

Tonight we are going to put the QS10s to the test. I just picked up Avengers - Endgame, and it will be family movie night with the kids. I'll let you know how they perform, but I'm sure we will all be blown away.

Edit - I forgot to add. After listening for about 5 hours yesterday at a pretty loud volume (-6 db on average), the Denon was hot to the touch and the ADA1500 was not even what I would consider warm. It was almost cool to the touch.

My Onk sets my QS10s to 50Hz. Of course this is room and position-dependent. I love the bass from them. If Ian built a QS with triple HP drivers, I'd upgrade in a heartbeat.

With my old Denon, I'd get an out-of-phase warning from time to time during calibration with the M80v2. I knew this couldn't be based on the centre image I was getting and a quick mono pink noise test confirmed the Denon was getting confused.

It really is a night and day difference as you say and this is due to multiple factors in the v4. It's not only that they are larger, have one more woofer and are HP. The M3v4 have none of that and sound better than the M80v2.

Mojo - Would you recommend that I switch the wires back on the "out of phase" speaker?

Listen to a song in stereo that you know has a strong center image. If the image is centered, then the Denon is right. If the image is everywhere but centre, the Denon is wrong.

Here is a good song for that if you have Spotify or Tidal. Nancy is dead centre. She's also deep back depending on speaker placement and room acoustics:

https://open.spotify.com/track/2nwCO1PqpvyoFIvq3Vrj8N?si=kA4TlFrzSgihAiQugOMDPQ

Wow, thanks for the tip Mojo! It turns out the Denon is correct, the left speaker is definitely wired backwards. When I play it with the wires reversed, she is dead center. When I play it with the wires plugged in the correct polarity plugs, she is singing all over the front.

So I will leave the left channel wired backwards.

I have to ask for the sake of completeness. Is the cable wired correctly at the Denon?

Hi Steve,

If you unplug the speaker wire and put a 9 volt battery wired + to + and - to - on the speaker input the woofers should move out. This test will eliminate the speaker being internally wired ok. The next step would be to follow the + speaker wire back to the Denon and be sure it is plugged into + output on the Denon. What sort of markings are on your speaker wire to designate + from -? In one instance when I was trouble shooting phase the printed designation on the speaker wire flipped sides on its way back to the amp. It is not unusual for the phase test from the receiver to be wrong; you can't beat the battery test and a good physical check of the wiring.

Hi Ian,

I did the 9 volt battery test and the speaker is now confirmed to be wired backwards. When I put + to +, the driver moves in. When I put + to - the driver moves out. I have banana plugs on my speaker cables and Red is +, Black is -, both sides.

Video is here: https://ufile.io/tyjverim

And here’s a picture of my cable.



It's no big deal, I don't mind flipping the wires around!
-Steve

Steve, on another note, how was that movie with the new set-up?

BTW, I keep my grills off. It makes a big difference for me on the mids and highs.

OMG, the movie was truly incredible! The new speakers and the amp made a huge difference. The kids even said they enjoyed the movie more in our theater than when we saw it at IMAX. The special effect scenes actually shook the room and we felt like we were in the movie. It was a real blast!

That's terrific, Steve. That's v4!

Speaking of which, I'm actually considering swapping out the drivers on the VP180 and replacing them with v4 drivers. Would it be a simple as just swapping out the 6 drivers? On the parts page they also have the crossover listed, but there is no version associated with it, so I'm assuming the crossover is the same.

Steve, I'd really recommend trading it in for a v4 with HP drivers. If money is an issue, trade it in for a 160v4 with an HP driver provided you have the height for the 160.

My VP180 is a prototype and probably does not have a lot of value. It's a v2 in v3 clothing. It means a lot to me though... For many reasons.

I sent a PM to Ian since the online calculator won't really know what I am going to try to trade in.

You will rapidly forget it once you have v4.

I am sure Ian will sign it for you.

I pulled the trigger and placed an order to upgrade to the VP180HP!

Hee hee hee...I like you, Steve.

I like you too Mojo! Thank you very much for your help and advice! My wife said that she looks back and says how lucky were we to pick Axiom? I agree. Best speakers, best owner, best customers.

Need help ,Not sure were the problem is the trigger is not working on my ADA 1500.I think it might be my Yamaha Av. also what do you do when you have multiple triggers.
2 EP500s and the ADA1500 AND Yamaha AV. I need to try a few more tests.

RJ

My Denon has 2 trigger outs. 2 Jacks, instead of one. So that's part one, you need to have a 1/8" DIN cable connecting the Yamaha trigger out to the ADA1500 trigger in.

My Denon is triggering my ADA1500. It could be either the cable, the Yamaha, or the ADA1500. Do you have another device that can send a trigger? If so, hook it up to the ADA1500 with a 1/8" DIN cable.

It was working fine then stopped. I have the trigger cables. It sound like it its tripping off but the light stays on.
RJ

I'm sorry Rj, I'm trying to understand your problem. It looks like French may be your native language and trust me, your English is great. Far better than my French!

So after reading this, it looks like your amp doesn't turn off when you turn the Yamaha off? Is that the problem?

No Im english but my typing skills are not the best. Yes correct I had it hooked up for the last year and it was functioning fine the amp is not turning of with the trigger. I tried it on my sub and it is not turning off either that why I am thinking it is my Yamaha second part to my question is how do you set up multiple triggers.
Thanks for the reply
RJ

I have tried multiple cables.

RJ, if you have a voltmeter, you can see if the trigger is working. I think it goes from low to high (0 to 12V) when it turns on and high to low to turn off.

As for multiple triggers, you can try a splitter. Here's an example.

5-Way Multi Headphone Splitter, 3.5mm Audio Stereo Headset AUX Adapter 1/8" Earphone Earbuds Extension Cord, Compatible for iPhone/Samsung/LG/Tablets/MP3 Players - Honesun (UV Coating White) https://www.amazon.ca/dp/B07R3QL594/ref=cm_sw_r_cp_apa_i_M2OHDbFJSWB2S

One thing you ought to know is that one trigger output may not have enough current to trigger multiple devices.

Mojo,
Working on it I keep for getting my voltmeter at work. I will let you know how it goes.
RJ.

You go, RJ!

Mojo ,
I hate to tell but I must come clean .I had it plugged in the wrong spot I plugged it in to the remote plug not the trigger ugg. Next time I will use a light and no wine during set up.
EP500 and QS10S on order I pick them up in two weeks.It gives me a day off and I look forward to the drive.
RJ

I'd come with you to pick up my LFRs and other gear if I could. By the way, setting gear up in the dark with lots of wine is more fun.

Still waiting for the VP180HP, but we had a BLAST listening to the speakers this weekend coupled with the newly introduced Amazon Music HD. I tried playing the speakers "nude" but I must be a little OCD and the tons of driver circles were too distracting for me. Put the grills back on. BTW, they are so good, and the ADA1500 is so amazing I already have an okay from the wife to buy another ADA1500 for the bar area. The VIP Black Friday deal may be just enough to go through with it.

Steve, might as well trade in those M100s for active LFRs. I am. Mooowaaaaaahahaha!

Damn, that's a sweet room!

I told my wife that my advice for anyone starting from scratch and wanted a system to listen to music to, just music, then I would recommend the Active LFRs with the two ADA1500-5 package. A little over $9k (after all current discounts, wait period, and loyalty program) for real wood speakers and the best sound and amplification you could ever want.

That's the way to start greasing up your lovely wife that other audio lovers would love to love...LOL!

Steve, I'm gonna put in a 180 in my active LFR order. In walnut. With HP drivers. Fed from one channel of a 1500.