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#432614 - 06/17/19 06:18 PM Re: AVR or pre amp recommendations? Going 4K [Re: brendo]
rrlev Offline
local

Registered: 09/25/09
Posts: 204
Loc: Boston Area
That will only happen over some zombies dead bodies ... oh ... wait a second ... smile

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#432619 - 06/17/19 11:04 PM Re: AVR or pre amp recommendations? Going 4K [Re: rrlev]
Mojo Online   content
axiomite

Registered: 01/21/07
Posts: 6308
Originally Posted By rrlev
Mojo ... give the guy some numbers ...
What do you think should be the cut off for those ... where it become just a spec and not audible...


Hmmm...yeah...numbers. smile

For S/N, you have to know two things: ambient noise of your space and the level where your ears compress. Ears compress at 120dB. Ambient noise is probably no better than 30dB. This means a S/N greater than 90dB is practically of no importance.

For THD+N, it's generally accepted that anything less than 1% over the entire audible band and volume levels is inaudible.

The figures above are for the entire *system* and not individual components.
_________________________
A-LFR/1000-8/500v4x2 coming
1000-2,3,1500-3
100,160,QS10x2,800,M5,M3,M50 v4
had v2
Air N2 (someday)

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#432625 - 06/18/19 07:07 AM Re: AVR or pre amp recommendations? Going 4K [Re: Mojo]
rrlev Offline
local

Registered: 09/25/09
Posts: 204
Loc: Boston Area
Originally Posted By Mojo

For S/N, you have to know two things: ambient noise of your space and the level where your ears compress. Ears compress at 120dB. Ambient noise is probably no better than 30dB. This means a S/N greater than 90dB is practically of no importance.

For THD+N, it's generally accepted that anything less than 1% over the entire audible band and volume levels is inaudible.

The figures above are for the entire *system* and not individual components.
ear compression ... interesting way to come up with a number ...

1% THD was the number I was using back in the day (because that, as you point out, was considered inaudible). I*d like to see something below 0.5 for my set up just because. Any thing below 0.1 I would call just a number. Using the same 10x cushion for your S/N number puts Noise at 100dB down ... I would not pick one system over another to do better.

BTW I doubt distortion is a real concern in any reasonable pre amp stage today.

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#432626 - 06/18/19 07:52 AM Re: AVR or pre amp recommendations? Going 4K [Re: michael_d]
bman84 Offline
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Registered: 09/29/18
Posts: 181
Loc: Toronto, Ontario
I think I'm going to swap out my Denon for a used Anthem MRX 720. From what I've read, it'd be worth it just for the improvement that ARC brings over Audyssey.
_________________________
Axiom M5HP,VP180,M3,ADA1000
Anthem MRX 720
SVS SB-3000 (dual)

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#432629 - 06/18/19 09:12 AM Re: AVR or pre amp recommendations? Going 4K [Re: michael_d]
Mojo Online   content
axiomite

Registered: 01/21/07
Posts: 6308
Be careful used. We've heard one horror story already. I'm waiting for Axiom's pre/pro.
_________________________
A-LFR/1000-8/500v4x2 coming
1000-2,3,1500-3
100,160,QS10x2,800,M5,M3,M50 v4
had v2
Air N2 (someday)

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#432631 - 06/18/19 09:26 AM Re: AVR or pre amp recommendations? Going 4K [Re: michael_d]
bman84 Offline
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Registered: 09/29/18
Posts: 181
Loc: Toronto, Ontario
Horror story? The 1120 that had issues after a firmware update?

Is Axiom actually working on a pre/pro?? shocked Would be awesome, although I know Ian despises room correction.


Edited by bman84 (06/18/19 09:50 AM)
_________________________
Axiom M5HP,VP180,M3,ADA1000
Anthem MRX 720
SVS SB-3000 (dual)

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#432632 - 06/18/19 12:17 PM Re: AVR or pre amp recommendations? Going 4K [Re: michael_d]
rrlev Offline
local

Registered: 09/25/09
Posts: 204
Loc: Boston Area
I’m sure if they came out with a preprocessor it would be done well ... that said

It is also a lot of work if you are going beyond the standard surround decoding chips. Just look at all these companies sliding their dates (or worse coming out with half working products) trying to produce 16 channel surround. Not sure how Axiom would differentiate them selves otherwise. I think it would be high risk tech wise, resources draining and a hard sell to anyone who was not familiar with Axiom. It would have to have some sort of auto room correction for it to be a marketable product.

BTW I use room correction for my everyday room setups but will probably use REW to hand tune (treatment and parameters) for the theater once it’s finished.

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#432633 - 06/18/19 12:26 PM Re: AVR or pre amp recommendations? Going 4K [Re: michael_d]
Mojo Online   content
axiomite

Registered: 01/21/07
Posts: 6308
Ian doesn't like the existing room correction because it's primitive. Imagine however an array of microphones that sense how The Family of Curves is affected by the room and compensated for in the DSP.
_________________________
A-LFR/1000-8/500v4x2 coming
1000-2,3,1500-3
100,160,QS10x2,800,M5,M3,M50 v4
had v2
Air N2 (someday)

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#432634 - 06/18/19 08:06 PM Re: AVR or pre amp recommendations? Going 4K [Re: michael_d]
bman84 Offline
veteran

Registered: 09/29/18
Posts: 181
Loc: Toronto, Ontario
Would be awesome to see Axiom build their own room correction software, although I'd imagine that'd be quite an undertaking. Could license it to others if it turned out well though.
_________________________
Axiom M5HP,VP180,M3,ADA1000
Anthem MRX 720
SVS SB-3000 (dual)

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#432639 - 06/19/19 08:57 AM Re: AVR or pre amp recommendations? Going 4K [Re: bman84]
michael_d Offline
connoisseur

Registered: 07/23/04
Posts: 4220
Loc: Up yonder
Originally Posted By bman84
I think I'm going to swap out my Denon for a used Anthem MRX 720. From what I've read, it'd be worth it just for the improvement that ARC brings over Audyssey.


I'm very impressed with ARC over my last two Denon's with Audyssey. And I have not taken the time to really dig into the program and make room tweaks. I just ran it the one time with five locations and called it good.
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