Axiom Home Page Forums General Discussion The Water Cooler Speaker colour have to match the sub?

Hey guys,

My EP500v1 is dying, and I need to replace it. I have looked around at other manufacturers, and am set on the SVS SB-3000, but the annoying thing is that the only colour it is available in is black, and the remainder of my HT speakers are boston cherry Axioms. I do not have the financial means to upgrade my other speakers. Sooooo.... I was wondering if any of you have an off-colour sub, or have seen a setup like this? I don't know if it would look, well, ugly (for lack of a better term).

Any input is greatly appreciated.

Thanks

Cam! Dude! Do it. I mean, you can wear dark jeans with a white shirt, right? The ladies love that.

What about a trade-in for v4?

Hey Mojo, duuuuuuuuuuude. I did a trade-up price check, and I can get the SVS SB-3000 for the same price as a v4. The SVS is a beast compared to the EP500, and to be honest, I am turned off by this review by Gene Dellasala - link.

Thoughts?

I've never heard the SB-3000 so I can't help you with a comparison. As for the article, there is just no comparison between my 600v2 and 800v4. It's not just about the extra driver. The v4 performs far better as a system. One thing you may want to dig into with the 3000 is mid-bass. Does it put out? Ian added a "boost" mode on the DSP subs. Using my humble equipment here, I figured that mode gives a 6dB or so boost between 55Hz and 85Hz. I really like that for music. For movies, I set it to "flat".

Maybe talk with Ian. See what he can do. He's helped you in the past.

If you have a spare hour, you can read my review:

https://www.axiomaudio.com/reviews/index/list/product/64/

Did you find any information about the mid-baa underperforming? The only thing that I have found is this post stating "Apparently, the new driver not only produces more low-bass SPL, it produces relatively more mid-bass SPL than the 12" driver on the 2000 did. Given those performance results, I think that the new PB3000 represents a significant step-up from the PB12-Plus which it replaced."

I love everything about Axiom. I just want to get the best bang for my buck.

I didn't look for any reviews on the 3000. However, I have to wonder if any sacrifices were made to the higher portions of the bass spectrum in order to make it go deeper. Not saying that's the case though.

Keep in mind that Gene has a lot of REEEAAAALLLYYY bad history with Axiom, and he is half clueless on a lot of things. I met him at CEDIA a few years ago and he is so stuck on himself it is pathetic. His videos have more opinion than fact.

That being said, I love SVS subs and have 2 myself.... In black... My 7 main Axioms are in Boston Cherry and my overheads are custom painted to match my ceilings. Never a concern about the colors not matching back in my previous theaters where you could see my subs. Now they are hidden so it doesn't matter.

Gene is a complete hack who is in this industry to make money for himself. SVS makes a decent product, but I can tell you from A/B listening under blind conditions that the EP800 mops the floor with a SB-16 Ultra. I sent the Ultra back and kept the 800. It is your money, but I suggest calling Ian and seeing what he will do for you.

Slimpikins sent his SVS subs back and loves his 800v4 and 500v4. Not saying SVS is no good but just sayin'...

Thanks for everyone's input.

Craigsub....... I can only afford an EP500. Do you think that it is close to a SB-16 Ultra's performance? I know that the SVS has more power, but I can get the SB-3000 (I believe is essentially an updated SB-16 Ultra) for the price of an EP500.

Thanks

The SB-3000 is two steps down from the SB-16 Ultra. The EP500 will sound as good as an EP800 with 6 dB less output. The 3000 uses a 13 inch driver compared to the 12 inch in the Axiom.

It probably has 1 or 2 dB more total output, but in the cabinet its in, the 3000 needs more EQ to achieve the deepest bass.

For my money, I would take the EP500 just for its music ability. The Axiom subs are not the darlings of the internet for their sheer output, but if music accuracy AND floor shaking ability is what you seek, look no further.

"It probably has 1 or 2 dB more total output, but in the cabinet its in, the 3000 needs more EQ to achieve the deepest bass. "

And as I said before, I suspect the power required to achieve the deepest bass may rob the upper registers.

Okay. that you for the information and help, guys. Mojo, you've kept your smarts despite your old age :-) .

And my good looks, Cam. I am also very humble. Wahahahahaha!

Just thought of something. Is there any talk of v5's in the works, seeing as the v4's came out a while ago?

No v5 until after you pull the trigger.

Well, I just spoke with Ian, and I have a horizontal EP800 ordered. I have the utmost respect for him. He is a great person and super nice guy. I'm very happy to stay with Axiom because I know I am in good hands. Not only do they make fantastic products, they treat you with respect. Although Ian would be extremely busy, he wasn't rushed with me on the phone, whatsoever; we had a nice chat about a couple different things.

Now the waiting game to receive it and get a couple people together to set it up for me (the latter will be challenging) begins.

Anyone want to come to Peterborough ?

That's fantastic, Cam. You know I'd love to help you out if I was a heck of a lot closer.

Ian is truly a great person. One day he's pulling curves in the chamber and tweaking DSP code, the next he's making molds, then he splashes around in the lake...and in between all that, he can still take an hour to chat with us.

You're gonna love that sub!

The only drawback is that I only have one place that it can go, which is below my TV where the 500 currently is. I hope it works there.

Will try to get a picture and post it,

[img:left]https://www.dropbox.com/s/bnhi1epvu4h26sj/Edited.jpg?dl=0[/img]

Very dated picture. The shelving unit isn't there anymore, and the EP500 is sitting centred below the TV.

Your bed is across from it, correct?

Is that room 12 feet across the front and 15 feet deep?

No, my bed is upstairs, bud.

The room is about 25 x 30.

I swear at one time I saw a photo of yours with a TV and a bed. Could have been a different room I suppose.

I found my 800 extremely easy to place. Just no contest compared to the 600v2. Set the polarity switch to zero at that position. As for the phase control, which your 500 lacks, you'll have to use a dB meter and run a test tone at the crossover frequency. If you're going to run room EQ, set the gain to flat on the back of the sub. I run it flat for movies and boost for music. Set the gain knob on the back to about a third for your room size.

That was my bedroom,yo.

I will do as you say, sir . Unfortunately I can't change anything on the back of the sub when I am alone, and pretty much always am.

Oh good. I thought I was losing my mind about the bed.

Damn Cam, I really wish I could help. I might be in TO next spring and could swing by to tune it up but that's a long way off. The good thing is that it gets shipped with the gain at a third and the switch at flat.

Wish I could meet you!

What is the best setting (flat/boost) to have the sub set at for both music and moves? I do use my room for movies more than music. Also, does the boost setting just provide more thump? I don't know what the two settings do.

Thanks

Flat tickles your nuts and boost punches you in the gut. That's why on my 800, it's labelled the 'nad tickler/gut punch switch. Although on Slimpikins's 800 it's labelled ginfizz/disco fever 'cause that's how he swings.

Boost gives a really nice thump for music. If you make the bass hot, it will wallop you. Technically, what it does in my room is boost the band between 55Hz and 85Hz by 6dB. That's 4 times the power of flat within that band.

So why don't I just always leave it at boost? Because you have to rob Peter to pay Paul; that 4x power boost has to come from somewhere. Peter is the bowels of sub-bass and Paul is the mid-bass. So I notice when boost is on, effects wayyyy down low are still there but not as wind-flapping.

Let me tell you that if boost wasn't there, I would not complain with the 800v4. It really is the icing on the cake for me. Every time I boost, I give a little wink and a nod to Ian.

Anyone had luck with a courier dropping a sub off at a specific spot in your house when you're home. It would make a world of a difference for me if the delivery guy would take my EP800 down my elevator and into my home theatre. It would be easy for them to do.

I am pretty sure if you call fed ex they'd help you out. Failing that, if you can catch him in person, I'm sure you'd get help. I had help from them twice.

I'm sure if you catch the delivery driver they'll be willing to help. If it's still early enough definitely try calling fed ex to change your delivery options.

I called and ask the following question but I have not received a reply yet. I ordered the 800 in a horizontal position, and I was wondering if I can use it in a vertical position if I find a better location for it that doesn't allow me to place it horizontally.

Sonically there won't be any difference. But the amplifier plate will be rotated so you won't be able to read it unless you rotate your head 90 degrees.

Carbon fiber.

It's not difficult to tell Blair was into the spirits last night. LOL!

Well, I am having difficulty calibrating my 800. I called Axiom this morning and left a message, but didn't get a return call today. Hopefully I can connect with someone tomorrow.

I need your number, Mojo .

First of all, does it "work" or did the shipping company trash it?

It was untouched.

That's a great start. What aspect of the setup are you having a problem with?

Spoke with Ian on the phone today, and we got to the bottom of the problem. The sub is working perfectly fine, but I have a query. Has anyone cows watch the Tom Cruise movie call Live, Die, Repeat? The reason I am asking is at the beginning of the movie there is one hell of a lot of bass. It shook the house with my 500, but my 800 really, really rattled the hell out of everything. I ended up having to turn the volume down, but now movies and music seemed a little muted in the base Department to me. The rest of the movie probably would have sounded fine if I didn't turn the Bass Down. I'm just curious if anyone else has experienced this with this movie. Also, disregard the capitalized words that shouldn't be excetera. I am using voice to text on my phone, and it isn't perfect to say the least.

Okay, I just did a quick Google search regarding that movie and bass in the opening scene call my and others have mentioned it as well. Just a word of caution if you are going to watch that film, the first 30 seconds has that movie has some ridiculously serious Bass. Unnecessarily so to be honest.

I somehow knew Ian was going to call you. I honestly have no idea how he does it. I am starting to suspect there are at least two Ians.

Cam, the movie you reference is Edge of Tomorrow. It is flat out, the most jarring LFE movie experience anyone can have with a sub. I had the same experience you reported.

Regarding your muted bass observation, the bass quality really varies depending on movie, music as well as source. Netflix movies were horrible via my not-so-smart TV. Now with the Firestick, it's a whole new experience with DD+. It's like blue ray now!

When I listen to Spotify, some songs are amazing and others totally suck sound quality-wise. Turning up the 800 does nothing more than make a bad problem worse. Then other songs are like Whoa!

I've noticed the 800 is very linear. No bass bump until you hit the boost switch. Try that and see what you think.

The peaks start at 10Hz and repeat every 5Hz thereafter.

https://m.imgur.com/VQCRl7z

I need a new SPL meter. What one do you guys use?

Cam, I use the Galaxy Audio CM-130 as shown at the link below. I am very satisfied with it.

https://www.galaxyaudio.com/products/cm-130#specifications

Amazon has what appears to be a newer model of the above meter. I remember paying about $70 back in 2007.

https://www.amazon.ca/Galaxy-Audio-CM140-Checkmate-Microphone/dp/B0007XH9PY

Ordered. Thanks, dude.

Let us know what you think of the 800.

So I have the crossover on the subwoofer set to 150 at Ian suggestion, and I currently have all of my other speakers that at 80. I was wondering where you have your m-80s set to in the receiver. I have always had my crossover set to 80 in the receiver, but am wondering if I should change something with the edition of the 800. Also, even though I couldn't find an option to change the crossover setting for my subwoofer in the receiver, what should I set that setting to if I do find said option. My receiver only lists crossover settings for my 7 speakers and not the subwoofer. I am assuming that it is located in another part of the menu. This new receiver is different from every other Denon that I have had in the past.

I always had 80Hz set for the 80s. Same for the 100s.

There is no such thing as a subwoofer setting in the receiver. When you set a speaker to say 80, all frequencies below 80 get sent to the sub. See how that works?

I have my 80s and VP180 set a little below 80, 70 I think on my Anthem. Seems to give me a nice blend. They pump out some good bass. It won't just cut off below the crossover freq, there is a slope.

I'll just add that if you set all speakers to full range, the only sounds that will go to the sub is the LFE the sound engineer created. Don't do that though because none of your speakers are full range.

Whatever sounds best, dude.

If your using external power most sub company recommendations suggest double the speakers rating. M80 {60 or 70}. The newer SVS Merlin guide recommends 50. For M80 and larger

If only with the Denon 80 would be safer for AVR power limitations. But you'll probably have more fun playing to find your own preference. Just check from time to time it's not getting to hot pushing the extra power.

Thanks for the input, guys. It is all greatly appreciated. I will leave all my speakers set to 80, for now. It is, after all, the way I have always set my speakers up.

And I am loving the 800. It is an absolute beast. It shakes everything LOL, and I can really feel the bass. I was always content and happy with the 500, but the 800 is just something else. I also quite like the horizontal orientation under my 60" TV. The only thing is that I would really like to have it sitting up higher off the floor because I think it will look even better, but also so it hides the two outlets behind it. Has anyone made two legs or a stand of some sort for it? Oh.... how far away from the wall should the back of the sub be (at minimum)?

Thanks

I used to use 80 crossover on my m80s and vp150, but find it sounds much better at 60-70. I think ARC sets it lower than 80 anyway because of their abilities. Better blend of bass and slope to the subs. just my 2cents

I found the 600v2 sounded much better crossed over at 60. The 800v4 sounds fantastic at any setting.

I meant to say VP180, haven't had a 150 in many years, lol

If the active LFR can't give me a great centre image irrespective of seating position, I'm getting a 180. An LFR 180. An active LFR180. I deserve it. So do you, Randy.

Welcome to low frequency. I know the movie very well, and quite a few others like it. What you are now experiencing is the very low frequency. I have two EP500's and the sonic profile of them really makes your brain spin. The problem is that they do work very well and can produce the exact right sound. But for me as I was so used to a crappy sub that really didn't produce the sub sonic below 45-50hz sounds, you got use to a sub being really just a boosted base. My combined EP500 get down around the 12-15hz that you really can't hear but feel. That DVD really does output that low of a sound and as the speakers have the power to produce it, you get the room moving rather than hearing the sound. So yes you end up wanting to turn it down. But then when listening to music or other not so low frequency tracks, you don't get the 45-50hz bass reinforcement that you are use to so it sounds rather more empty.

You do in gut punch mode if you upgrade to the latest sealed subs. Axiom politely calls this "boost". It gives you a 6dB boost centered at 55 Hz with a low Q of 20 Hz side bands.

I like it. I also like it flat. There is nothing not to like about the 800. I'm looking forward to getting my two 500s in walnut low gloss satin along with my active LFRs and 1000-8.