Axiom Home Page Forums General Discussion Stereo Height, width, depth...oh my!

An article for anyone who has ever wondered how height, width and depth are created in a recording.

https://theproaudiofiles.com/width-height-depth-in-a-mix/#:~:text=By%20creating%20contrast%20in%20the,the%20whole%20mix%20will%20expand.

Thanks Mojo!

Enjoyed reading that

This is an amazing sonic holography playlist.

https://open.spotify.com/playlist/64GQEeNRuKu2qSB7hftJPw?si=fhNaDEa8RgSpnLXOnebhoQ

Listening right now at low volume ( Pure Direct of course....) to the Dave Brubeck Remaster on this playlist. Very nice.

I had a thought and I think the answer is yes, but it’s likely a safe bet that any track from these albums that these individual tracks are from are probably of the same “ mastering “ or engineering, same studio or same venue / mic’ed the same. Unless it’s a compilation album I guess.

And thus, the other tracks from those albums would have the same holographic effect or rendering.

Thus is a good list ! Great variety of genre. Thanks.

I don't know the answer to that one.

That Brubeck tune is an interesting one. On the actives in stereo, the music on the left appears panned hard left which means it sounds like it's coming out of the left speaker. On the M5s, that's not the case. The music appears behind the M5 as if there is no speaker there - or rather there's a speaker but it's projecting the sound backwards right behind it. That's the effect when the M5s are 12 feet apart, I sit 14 feet away and the tweeters are about 6" below my ears. As soon as I raise them to ear level, the music again collapses into the left speaker.

There are other tunes that create a similar difference between the actives and the M5s.

Hmmmmm. Interesting. You’d think the actives would “appear deeper “ than the m5s. I think the way you’re describing it though makes it sound worse than it is for the actives. Maybe?

I’ve got m60s at “ station keeping “ right now. Tucked back in the alcove and closer to the walls. I have to stand way back in my kitchen and listen thru the big pass thru window to even get close to holographic and even then it’s not quite right. It’s not wow. The bass support at low volume with them backed in close to wall is really perfect though. Good tight low volume bass. And crystal clear mids.

Back to my original thought tho, I bet you could count on live mic’d “ unplugged “ albums to sound spacious for the whole album as nothing would have changed unless it was “ edited/produced “ individually after the fact.

I would’ve thought the actives would have produced the most consistent holographic effect over the m5s being omni I directional and all.

A radiator can be omni-directional but still interfere with itself particularly in an echoic environment. The M5, M2 and M3 self-interfere less. At least that's my theory.

Most people, although they don't know it, just want to drop speakers in a room, get large sound and not be offended by bloated lows or piercing highs. Bose solved that problem in a most brilliant way by providing no lows and no highs in its speakers. No dynamic capability to speak of either. Stereo everywhere and yet nowhere. Problem solved. Bose sold bazillions. Those same Bose lovers though, get a stiff wake-up when they hear M2, M3, M5, M50, M100, A-LFR that is set up well in the room. Then they are haunted by the sound forever.

I just wanted to add here, about interference, I've been contemplating upgrading the dual flanking 500s to 600s. I'm hesitating however because I'm concerned about the 600s interfering with the reflections from the rear drivers from the actives. I've set things up so darned good right now, the best I've ever had, that I don't want to ruin a good thing.

Think you need to sit in a high chair when listening to your LFRs

I see you've been talking with Ian.

Yes I had that problem with the 600s setup outside the LFRs. Once I moved them inside between the LFRs all was good.

It's good to know you've already experimented with this. My 500s are currently on the inside. I am still concerned though because ray tracing tells me the listening window curve will be affected. The backs of my actives are 3 feet from the front wall.

The front centers of mine are currently 4.5ft from the back and 4.5ft from the sides. They are spaced 12ft apart. MPL is a bit closer then I like at 10ft from the front centers but it seems to work. The stage is quite wide and presents a fantastic image with well recorded stuff (although I’m not sure they intend it to be that wide). Some music I need to listen to again on headphone and/or a more conventional setup because image wise what I think was intended as room reverb sounds weird as the room is in front of me and not around me.

The benefits outweigh the drawbacks. I wouldnt sweat it. Less cabling all over too since you are poaching signal off your towers.

Trevor, I think you think that the front subs in an active LFR set-up are fed high level from the speakers. They are not. Each DSP box has a sub out low level with 0, 40, 60, 80, 150 Hz cut-offs. 0 means the actives play full range. You can of course control the sub's range via it's own cut-off rotary switch. The lows are absolutely awesome.

One thing that is missing is a relative "sub to LFR distance" adjustment. The sub therefore can't be placed further from the MLP than the LFRs.

Rich, there's nothing wrong with your 10 foot MLP. I just tried 10 feet with mine and it feels like I am closer to the stage. The center image is larger and so are other images across the stage and I feel more envelopment. Unfortunately, I also find the cabinets (?) of the actives create an acoustic shadow that limits the soundstage width. Of course that may be rectifiable via more or less toe-in.

When I move back to my 14 foot MLP, it feels like the stage is "up there". The images haven't moved but they've become smaller (which can be enlarged with more volume to a certain point before depth starts collapsing) and the soundstage width expands and I can now hear behind and to the outsides of the actives. This is my preferred listening configuration but I have to say that closer up is also addictive in its own way. Now I gotta get me a sliding chair so I can adjust it depending on mood.

What is your toe-in?

I’m not down there at the moment but think it’s something around 10 degrees.
Anyway, I just setup the VP180 to give it a spin as the virtual center is only good for 3 seats. 4 seats seems to depend on what’s being played.

I’m going to set everything up on the short wall soon and test that out for a while. It will definitely improve the surround setup as It’s really too tight front to back using the long wall.

My virtual active centre is also good for 3 seats.