Axiom Home Page Forums General Discussion Stereo M2 vs M3 vs M5 a very quick unscientific eval

(Note: this is not a review but a quick impression on the M2, M3, and M5 differences)

Edit: I have to do this again ... I think I forgot to turn off the subs ... so, stand by

Yes please! looking forward to review. with subs on and without please?

Ok, I'm back ... again this is not a review

I did a very quick listen to the M2, M3, and M5 tonight. Just playing a single channel and moving the banana plugs between speakers. I only spent about 10-20 minutes doing this, playing the first few minutes of just one song: The Psychic by the Crash Test Dummies. (Picked to zoom in on the low through high mids)

Overall the M2 and M5 where surprisingly close with the M5, as you would expect, having more low end. I’d have to do a lot more listening and need a faster way to switch between speakers to come up with a better comparison. I can tell you both presented instruments and vocals clearly and as far as one can tell by ear seem to span their respective frequency ranges well with perhaps the M2 having the edge here. The M3 on the other hand sounded really muddled in comparison in both mids and low-mids. This I think made the high-mids sound recessed. It’s all relative. The end result was a loss of detail in both the vocals and instruments. I was shocked by how much (i.e. it wasn't subtle) ... not what I remembered ...

A few years ago, I compared the M3 and M22 (a speaker which I think is similar to an M2 sound wise) and didn't come away with this impression. If I remember correctly the M22 just sounded more accurate than the M3 in the mid-highs and the M3 had more low end. Perhaps it was the material I was comparing them with.

The 2nd part of the comparison was just to play pink noise through them … both the M2 and M5 were close and presented what I expected pink noise to sound like. The M3 sounded filtered as the high end of the pink spectrum sounded reduced ... call it dark or muffled pink.

In any case, given this non-scientific short listen I have to conclude that Mojo is absolutely right on the M3 ... a lot of detail is lost in the mid territory.


Hopefully others will chime in with their thoughts and comparisons.

BTW, I still feel the M3 is a pleasant sounding standalone speaker and it's probably why a lot of music that sounds good on it doesn't come off as well on more revealing speakers. That said, it's worth repeating ... you're missing a lot with the M3 when compared to an M5, M2, or M22.

Here's my excellent, no expense spared, setup.
Note the stand that Axiom ships free with every M5!

It occurred to me last night that in the previous post I was using a "new" M3 that I have never listened to before ... So, I brought down my original M3v4 this morning (bought ~2016) and compared the pink noise signature of the two ... it fell somewhere between the M5 and the "new" M3. Think I have to listen to this M3 and probably a few more before making any calls M3 wise ... In the mean time I left the new one playing pink noise for the day just to see if that changes anything.

That last post of yours is very interesting. It is of course very possible Axiom made changes since you purchased your originals. Likely the response of the new pair will change after getting some hours on them. Or maybe temperature changes in your room are affecting the response.

I listen to two more "new" M3's which were much clearer and less dark then this one and closer to the 2016 M3. The M3 I was testing two posts ago is definitely out of spec and I'm sorry to say needs to be replaced.

I'll have to redo the M2, M3, M5 comparison ...

I don't know what's wrong with people. If you can't decide between M2, M3, M5, buy them all and try. Buy them in different finishes so you can figure out what works aesthetically.

That's what Rich, Phil, Rebulx, John and I have done. Rebulx isn't finished yet. He has 12 more models to buy.

So for example, I have M2OW and I love them and the music they make. But what am I missing not having M5OW? What am I missing not having speakers with the cherry chestnut top I have on my Freedom which I stare at and think "Damn, I want a house built from that!"? I can answer those questions pretty fast by just buying M5OW. See? It's easy.

I have an 800 and 500s. But what am I missing not having EP125s? I'll be answering that one pretty quick too.

That maybe but this one is a step backward ... not likely to be chosen in an A/B comparison. More likely out of spec components in the cross over. Often it's not practical cost wise to design at high enough component tolerances to get 100% of production to pass. So, one designs so 98% will be good and then weeds out the out of spec ones for rework. This one didn't get caught or perhaps (hopefully not) was at the edge of acceptable.

More likely production slipped in a wrong part or FedEx played baseball with it and knocked an inductor off the board and now it's dangling off one of its connections.

Lev, please buy this...

https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B01M3PKDUH/ref=ppx_yo_dt_b_asin_title_o06_s00?ie=UTF8&psc=1

The time it takes to plug and replug speakers in makes it's really difficult to compare. When you can flick a switch and go back and forth, it makes all the difference. Best 30 bucks you'll ever spend!

Mojo, what environment do you have your M2 on walls? Surrounds? Crossed over at what frequency?

Stereo, no cross-over. Left and right crappy subs are set to 80Hz. Soon to be replaced with two EP125s. Wall-to-wall soundstage and very deep.

ok, so what is the deal with all the edged weapons? lol

Let me guess. You use fishing line and bait to catch fish. I like to give them a fighting chance by using my Spetznaz shovel.

This was one of the items which arrived with no damage (at least to the enclosure). It sounds more like the crossover is out of spec ... the FFT is fairly close to what the others are giving me ... but anything is possible. I'll test it some more if I can just find where my splitter cables are. I'm so disorganized.

Just recognize that a slight shift between the position of units could change the FFT even if you are using tight gating.

Ok, spent a bit of time figuring out how to take a frequency response ... not sure I've got it 100% but I've measured it well enough.

So, Which M3 is not like the others?


All these speakers are M3v4's. The green line is my 2016 M3. The others are 2020 M3s.
If you guess the M3 in red was the one in my original write-up (#438551) then you guessed right. Leave it to Murphy that I grab the only dud M3 in the bunch (but then again I might not have found it otherwise).

Now before you start reading too much into my measured reponses there are a few things you need to know:
It was taken with pink noise, in a fairly lively room and using my iPads internal mic ... so it's far from a perfect measurement (i.e. don't compare it the axioms anechoic response). What it does do, is enable us to compare similar speakers relative to each other ... and we can clearly see that red's mids, upper mids, and the lower highs are down quite a bit. This is where vocals and a lot of instruments reside. In any case depending on where you place your listening viewpoint you could look at it as recessed mids & highs or bloated bass.

I'm thinking (guessing) that the drop off at the high end may be related the pink noise energy dropping below the limits of what the system can evaluate (starting around 7khz). That said we can still see that the 2016 M3 has a slight high-end bump. I'll have to test the other 2016 M3 to say for sure but when I was comparing these the 2016 M3 always sounded slightly better to me ... I'm wondering if this was why.

Rlev, do you have a pic of your listening space?

My ears have heard the new tweeters perform at a lower, high level, if that makes sense. I enjoy the older tweeters over the new ones, as my ears are a custom to their overly bright sound, but thats a personal opinion and subject to the listener. Ian has informed me that he has a few old tweeters laying around that he can ship out upon request.

Keep going. Maybe I ought to send you mine for a sweep.

Was there a change in the V4 tweeter over this time frame?

Rich, when Rebulx says he prefers the older tweeters over the new ones, he is comparing his M50ti tweeters from 30 years ago to the v4.

The v4 tweeters I've heard on various Axiom gear purchased in 2017, 2018, 2019 all sound great and I'd never want the v2 ones back.

My ears are used to the "ti" versions that is about 15 years old. Ian is trying to find some old tweeters so I can add new speakers with that bright sound I'm used too and enjoy so very much.

Poor Ian.

Rebulx, please listen to those new tweets for a while before you change them. You may grow to like them. Besides, when you get the emo, you may cook the ti tweeters or worse - fry your brain cells from ti tweeter distortion.

I’m with mojo on this one Rebulx. I’ve got the “ ti “ tweet and unless it’s an exceptionally good recording I find them a touch bright. There’s times I enjoy that mind you, but overall if they could have a smoother roll off I’d give m60ti a 10/10 or 5 stars or whatever.

To be fair though I haven’t heard v4 tweeters.

I wonder if you use your new amplifier with the v4 tweet that they may be more to your liking. Not brighter mind you , but more alive. I’ve read ( and agree with ) the fact that adding more power and headroom brings things to a new level of clean and precise.

Are you finding the the tweets lacking in movies and effects more ? Or in 2 channel music? Or both?

I’ve been in friend home theatre and the tweet was harsh and grainy but he liked it bc it was loud and made you jump etc. I’m thinking adding more power with you more life in the system and maybe be more fulfilling as I’m sure your avr is underpowered for the m100 true potential.

You could try your m50 tweets in there? Would that work with crossovers?....,,

So I’ve been thinking about this tweeter thing more.......

The “ ti “ tweeter might not sound good in the m100. I would question Ian on it for sure. The new v4 tweet is likely “ optimized “ with crossover. You may not actually get the old ti sound out of the m100 crossover.

It’s worth a shot if you really really need that ti sound but I would guess that Ian and Andrew know what they’re doing when matching components. I’m saying this with an inquisitive tone not a reluctant tone.

Maybe I should try a v4 tweeter in my ti. ? Would that work or do I run into the same issue as I described above.

My gut feeling is it’s not as easy as just plug and play.

On another note if Ian does find some ti tweeters I’d like a pair to have here on standby , just in case, as I have a hunch the ti tweeter is the weakest link in my speakers until I get more power behind them one day for high spl.

I'm pretty sure the tweeters are plug and play. Of course they won't measure the same. And at louder SPLs, the ti tweeters will shriek like a banshee.

I think what you ought to do Kodiak is trade in the M60ti for this beauty:

https://www.axiomaudio.com/arb-0115

Or even more beautier is this one. Axiom also has one in Boston Cherry but come on...we're talkin' walnut espresso!

https://www.axiomaudio.com/bst-0102

Oh trust me!!!!! I’ve been looking!!!!! If those m80 were Boston cherry it would be a likely done deal. The black doesn’t jive in my decor here and the Boston cherry gets very high wife approval, shockingly high wife approval.

That’s a great deal, I know!!

I tried to talk my brother into them but he got the refurbed m60 V1 maple that were on there. $600.

Trust me I’m always looking and scheming. I’m addicted.

Edit: Agreed. That walnut espresso is very nice!!!

Edit 2: Basically any upgrade would HAVE to be Boston Cherry to get approved for living room placement. Which is fine by me. Or any real wood veneer of similar colour / shade.

Boston Cherry.

https://www.axiomaudio.com/bst-0067

I know I know. But it’s not the refurbed price of that black o ne. If a Boston Cherry V4 M80 refurb popped up at $1422 I’d be all over it with a trade in of my m60 ti.

I hate bending to the wife but it’s her house too, she really likes, and I mean REALLY LIKES, the extra wood that shows below the m60 grill vs the m80 grill that goes to the floor.

Edit: I’d probably jump on a v4 m60 or v4 m60hp too. Boston Cherry of course.

We looked at the LFR 1100. I tried to describe the way it works and some of the science involved, but she wasn’t interested. We were looking at different finishes to go into our new house one day. I’m gonna have a ton of space to play with and set up a big system but I’ve handed over the finishing choices to her. She’s stoked. I’ll be happy with any finish she chooses. I’m just stoked I’m gonna be able to get dream system one day!!! And build a space to put in !

In the meantime, you could enjoy a better design and trade it in later.

I don't know what's wrong with her. Does she not find omnidirecrional speakers romantic?

Just read your m5 review on the axiom website mojo. Pretty high praise. Nice review. Good work.

Edit: sent some posts but they didn’t show up. Weird. Tried to repost but it said post button disabled , posts are sent. So where are they? Maybe they’ll show up in a bit.

Thanks, man. The 800 was the first v4 eye-opener for me and then the M5s clinched it.

It's surely an informative post but not as much fun as this one:

https://www.axiomaudio.com/boards/u...ts-the-night-before-christmas#Post427893

Ok that’s classic. I just spit out my afternoon coffee reading about Big a John and vortex ports!!! Hilarious.

Very well done indeed!!

Big John was a bit before my time. 2005 I think. Legend has it he disappeared down one of the vortex ports he loved so much.

Like a giant gaping black hole..........

Disappearing over the event horizon one molecule at a time.........

Re-appearing in a new dimension only to complete this rhyme.

LOL!

Figured out what happened to my other posts. You can’t use emojis. My posts got booted I guess. Just tried another emoji and same thing happened. Oh well.

I had posted something to the effect of wanting to know what size rooms are people using m5hp cabinet in and what kind of bass response are you getting? I’ve read mojos review in 4200 cubed space. Vs an m80v2. Any other folks out there with anecdotal experience?

Kodiak, I'll listen with the amp this weekend. That will probably make a difference. I've swapped the ti with the v4 already. ti is significantly brighter, most would say too bright. It's what my ears are used to.

Good morning.

Look forward to hearing your review. I think it’s great you know what you like and went for it. As long as you like what it sounds like then who cares!! I personally have no issue with the ti tweet when not toed or at zero / no angle. But I have to admit with them toed in they can be bright on less then good recordings. Some “ sssswonderful “ songs sound sibilant sometimes. ( see what I did there.....).

Are you just changing out the m100 tweets ( makes sense ) or will you do your surrounds too?

Even with the ti tweets in you should try getting them lower to ear level. In my opinion it makes a difference, at least in my space it did. I realize that maybe it’s not practical to leave them there though. It’s just fun to experiment.

Well thought I’d get back to you on the M2, M3, M5 comparison (2020 v4). So the M2 vs. M5 has not changed. They are very similar with M5 reaching lower and the M2 having a slightly cleaner sound (although I'm not 100% on that).

The M3 is slightly muddier then either the M2 or M5. I think there is a boost in base/low-mids which throws off the mids making it less clear and loosing some texture in both voices and instruments. When side by side it’s noticeable but by it self it’s not bad. I played some Yo-Yo Ma and the cello was pleasant but with a slightly different timber … same went for the wood blocks in Steely Dan’s “Do it Again” and the singers voice in “The physic” by Crash Test Dummies. Everything is a bit warmer but with less detail in some areas. I’ve been very happy with my 2016 M3 (which I think is a little brighter than the 2020 version in the mid highs).

Just for fun I tried my 2016 M22 in the mix … it’s a lot like the M2 sound wise but more sensitive which makes it hard to compare since it’s louder … I also think a bit brighter but I’m not totally sure.

Personally, I really like the M22 (or M2) combined with an EP500. It’s the combo I’d recommend for anyone with a Receiver. After which, the M5 if you going without a sub and can power it, and finally the M3 if you’re just after a pleasant sounding speaker sans sub (although it benefits from one) or are sensitive to cost.

I don’t really consider this a review as that takes a lot more time and critical listening. I know the M22 and M3 as I have had a pair for several years. The M5 and M2 are resent acquisitions. (Listening was done using an 8805 pre and ADA1250 amp)

With the exception of the M22, because I don't have one, that pretty much sums up my thoughts.

The M50 is more pleasant than the M3. There is no bass bump in the M50. It's a speaker you can really relax with. And it goes plenty loud before distorting.

M2 with subs...yup...I'll second that. That's my living room system. That's really all most of us really need.

I’m tempted by these too. I want Axiom towers and bookshelves too.

You don’t have m22’s mojo?!

Every addict needs an enabler.

https://www.axiomaudio.com/arb-0026

Add in your loyalty discount , which is probably pretty good and you’re styling!!

Don't like Boston Cherry. I'd give OW a try where my M2s are.

Kodiak, I urge you to get a pair of M2 bookshelves and try them against your M60s. Unless you are sitting 20 feet back from your M60s, I expect the M2v4 will image and soundstage better than the M60ti. Just use some boxes for stands.

You won't get the bass from the M2s you get from the M60s though. But you may like it better. And they certainly won't go as loud as the M60s before distorting. But they may go loud enough.