Axiom Home Page Forums General Discussion Home Theater Center Channel

Looking for some input and opinions on the necessity of a center channel. After upgrading my receiver I lost the room for one until I find a better or custom shelf. My initial reaction... not that much of a difference, the M100s sound really good either way. I haven't watched a movie yet and i'm thinking it'll be more noticeable in dynamic scenes?

You'll notice the two mono blocks not powered on. One of the two new mono block's from Emotiva fried after hooking up ;-(

It's also worth noting that upgrading to the Yamaha 5200 processor was a huge upgrade from the RX-A860 I originally started out with, and much better than the RX-A1080. The DAC is so much better than what I was using. Sounds amazing and lots of fun little features to play around with. As someone still learning and reading goobs of stuff on the internet, you really don't know which upgrades are actually going to sound better until you try them in your space, this was a BIG ONE. This has taken the M100's and M80 on walls to another level.

Wahahaha! I knew you'd fry the Emo. Look back at my posts. LOL!

Wahahaha! I knew you didn't need a centre. Look back at my posts. LOL!

Before my buddy stole my M100s, admittedly I needed the 160. But, the 100s were 12 feet apart and I was 14 feet away. In your case, the M100s are so close, and you are sitting relatively far, I have to wonder how you can even get a stereo image.

Maybe emo will one day figure out how to protect their gear. Get an ADA.

You were right, you were right, and yes... you were right about that M2 on wall. What can i say, you've got good Mojo. You need a badge or something on your avatar so people will start listening to you.... and by people I pretty much mean just me. lol

Yeah but it's no fun listening to me. Look at how exciting your life became finding your own path.

Yeah, it's been fun. I'm hard headed and have to see things for myself sometimes. My biggest mistake in all this was getting a Yamaha RX-A860. Low end hardware hooked up to high end speakers doesn't equal amazing sound, or perhaps I just had a bad unit.

Anyways, lol, back to my original post. What do you think about the necessity of a center channel.

You don't need it given the separation of your mains and your listening distance. Wait until you get your next house. Make sure you have a large listening room.

During movies with the size of my room I can notice the difference with and without the center channel. As much as I love the 100s and the sound imaging they don't sound quite as good vs having a dedicated center.

When I had my setup along the long wall I only had about 3 seats (maybe 4) with a virtual center using the A-LFRs. I preferred a center in that case (speakers 11 to 12 feet apart). Given the wide space I needed to do better. I’m now setup on the short wall but have not had a chance to do anything with it. Just been too busy lately with non-audio stuff.

With passive speakers set 12 feet apart and 14 feet MLP, I had to use a center. With active LFR1100s set just slightly wider and same MLP, I don't need a center up to two seats away from the MLP either way.

Rebulx,

In my Theater with my m-80’s 12 feet apart and a vp-180 just a wall of great sound. Wouldn’t want it any other way. First row of seats is 18 feet away.
In the living room with passive 3 way floorstanders 9 feet apart, no center channel , don’t need one, don’t want one. Sitting 13 feet from speakers.
You’ll have to decide for yourself what might be missing and if that is important.
Just my 2 cents worth.

Jeff

If you have more than one viewer or seating is not a sofa centered on the screen yes you need one.

If one listener you can get away without one. Same performance as in a stereo phantom image.

Follow Dolby recommendations.

Soundtracks are not mixed for a phantom center.

I agree with Mojo. Start thinking about the future room and save up some $.

I've gone without a center channel a couple of times in different rooms/configurations. It worked OK. Then I added a center - it worked better. Do you "need" one? - nah. Will your HT sound better with a center? dialogue - yes. Music, probably not.

What I like most about having a center channel speaker, is the ability to bump up the center a couple DB's over the R/L. I like to do this so I can hear dialogue a bit better.

Yeah, from my a/b testing that is what I am finding. it's movies and dialogue. I guess I will have to build something to fit all the components plus a center channel, something that fit in this odd space.

Thats why I am not selling my M100's that don't fit my space. They are the best speakers. I'm thinking it'll be 8-12 months, maybe more if i'm smart, before I move. A dedicated home theater will be required in the new house.

I plan to visit the Axiom factory in the next year or so, as I have business nearby...hopefully the border opens back up.

IMO a centre channel for HT is really key. The larger the tv/screen, the larger the centre channel.

In our recent addition of a 77" LG, i've found the aged VP150 to be a bit 'thin' in the middle. I was going to boost the output a bit to see if that helps. I also need to give myself a bit of time because the location of the centre is now lower from where it was before with our previous setup. However, that being said, the location of the VP150 is just about equal with the tweeter heights of the M60s on either side of the LG. Previously it sat on top of an old RPTV and it was positioned above the M60 tweeter height.
Part of what i'm hearing is difference from my previous reference point for sound from the centre channel. My first impressions are, it isn't better, but rather worse. I'll give it some time and see if i change my mind on that.
Part of the other problem is the LG screen height. Being up a bit higher means the centre sound is coming from below and and not up top so my perspective of dialogue during movie playback is changed. I'm not certain i feel like the sound is coming from the 'screen' area as much as it was before.
This is the same conundrum that people with big projection screens run into as well. If the screen is so large that you have to put the speakers and centre channels way off the sides, top and bottom (not behind the screen), then it anchors the sound very differently.

I also have a vp150v4 (onWall) under a LG 77” ...
it sound great. ... no complaints

Eye level (and therefore ear level) is about 25% from the screen’s bottom and the 150 is about an inch below the screen some what in line with the M2 mains.

You can't possibly know how much better no center sounds with properly placed active omnis until you try it. It's more diffuse...more natural. In my set-up, that centre image holds up to the outer boundaries of the fronts...maybe more...I haven't tried. That's two seats away from MLP.

I agree with passives a centre is needed unless the fronts are placed real close to each other relative to MLP. Then, there's really no imaging to be had so a centre is quite useless.

Rebulx, you need active omnis for your new place.

=
Agreed, Mojo.

I can add a bit more detail here.
The plan was to replace the VP150 with a VP180 (9.5" H).
The media console is 28"H.
There would be a 2" H between the VP180 and the screen.
So, centre channel total height is approx. 37.5-38" (presently i put the VP150 on 4 hockey pucks to raise it up). As such, the screen starts at 40" off the ground and goes up from there. I would say that eye height is around the bottom 15%, no more than the bottom 20% of the screen.

Options
I could lower the screen by those 2" which would make a marginal difference in putting the screen closer to the centre channel (the spouse feels like the screen is a bit high anyway but frankly if you sit in in the front row at a theatre, it's far worse for having to look 'up').
or
the media console has a top shelf with a cloth fabric front which was designed to put a centre channel or sound bar inside. The VP150 can fit but i haven't yet measured to see if the VP180 would.
Soundwise putting this inside the cabinet (open at the back though) is also not ideal. It would also lower the centre channel significantly and likely i would have to get one with an upward angle.
It would become quite the experiment.

Once i get a few things cleaned up i can post a photo.

I am sure many here think the upward angle idea is a good one. I know it isn't but perhaps there is no other option. Sounds to me like you need to go with active omnis.

What about an in-wall centre?

Changing out a speaker for another will not solve the issues related to screen placement and room limitations.
Since none of the components sit anywhere near a wall (the screen is off the wall by 21"), no in-wall placement is feasible.

Upward angle and inside a cabinet and thus also at an even lower ear height i don't think will provide quality sound. It is an option but not a good one.

The cabinet “sounds” like your problem.
Right now I have low coffee table below my screen/150.
The receiver sits on that just missing the 150

Actually my problem like many others is the search for perfect sound.


The cabinet is a high quality unit and puts the VP180 at a perfect height with the M60s for sound but bumps the screen up in height.
There's just always going to be tradeoffs.

I actually turned the VP150 upside down yesterday to an inverted position to see how that sounds. I can't say i noticed much of large change.